Keyboard question to European programmers

[ataradov]

So, what I gather from this is that it is fine to use any characters in a language design.

Also, I just realized something. In the Russian layout I can't type ~`@#^ either. But this was never even remotely a problem because all Russian keyboards are marked with Russian and US layout characters. Most of the time the keyboard is in the US layout only when typing in Russian it is switched into the Russian layout. So, programming was never a problem and I don't remember struggling with those characters when typing text, so I guess they are not that common.

It never even came to mind to try that on the keyboard I have right in front of me before now

[harerod]

Ah, I love that question. First of all - yes, coding in C is a tad simpler on an American layout. However - one gets used to different layouts.
Check out this picture of my Fujitsu KB521's, one with German, the other with Japanese keyboard layout. The Japanese version is designed for usage with an Input Method Editor (there are other types of Japanese keyboards available, with different special function keys). The base layout is U.S.. When I switch input languages, my brain somehow switches the keyboard layout. I simply know that, e.g. Y-Z are in different positions. 
All over the world the older computer guys, who were active during the DOS-era, should be able to remember the U.S. layout, since that is what came up as default on a virgin computer. 
When I dabbled with the standard Hebrew keyboard layout, I ran into a problem: How does one input lower case Roman characters? Simple thing, just change the input language. So surfing the web simply involves switching languages all the time.

[SiliconWizard]

In non-US layouts you often have to use key modifiers to get some basic symbols, such as #, \, @...
With AZERTY layouts, we have a modifier key called "Alt Gr", that I think has no equivalent in US layouts, or maybe even QWERTY layouts in general? Not sure.

You can always use a US layout if you're uncomfortable with that, or even define your own layout. Why not.

I've never found that a big issue, it's just a matter of habit. As I have often said, if typing is really your concern while programming, you're focusing on the wrong problem.

[ataradov]

Yes, this is a part of why I did not have issues having used Russian most of my life - the character set is so different that there is no way to just replace a few characters with different letters, you have to have a full new layout and active switch. This leaves the US layout alone. For languages where most of the characters are Latin, it makes way less sense, so you are reducing special character set to accommodate just a few extra characters.

[metebalci]

I have been coding with different programming languages and at different levels since early 90s. If I was a programmer and equally lets say a Spanish writer, I would definitely get two keyboards, one US and other Spanish. I definitely think it is easier to code (and use some programs as well) with US layout. It is also not difficult with another layout, but it is just easier with US layout. My native language is Turkish which has its share of a few difference characters (or same chars with different accents) in addition to English (and also omits a few English ones too), and at the moment I am in Switzerland where you can find I think 3 different keyboard layouts (German, French, Italian). On the other hand, I mostly use the keyboard with English, either for programming or for writing mostly in English. So I decided to use a physically US layout keyboard 5+ years ago, and happy with the decision. I used US layout before as well, so it was not difficult to adapt. Because I need to use particular characters of Turkish or German time to time, I created a custom keyboard map in Windows and mapped Alt-Gr (which I dont use) + char to its Turkish or German variant (luckily there is no conflict). For example, this happens when I press the key and then alt-gr + key: o ö, u ü, i ı, g ğ, c ç, b ß.

[tooki]

…and at the moment I am in Switzerland where you can find I think 3 different keyboard layouts (German, French, Italian).

Oh, it’s way weirder than that. I think that the Italian part of Switzerland uses Italian keyboards, but I’m not sure; I’ve spent practically no time there. (Edit: wiki says they just use the Swiss French layout.)

The French and German parts of Switzerland does not use the French, Italian, or German keyboards at all. They use the Swiss keyboard layout(s). I put the s in parentheses because it’s one physical layout and keycap labeling, but two key mappings in software. Basically, it’s two closely related variants of one layout. There are three keys that aren’t mapped identically: the Swiss German keyboard outputs ä/ö/ü on those keys by default, and  à/é/è shifted. The Swiss French layout is the reverse: it outputs à/é/è by default and ä/ö/ü shifted.

(This is reminiscent of how cinema subtitles worked here in Switzerland back when they used film: they didn’t use the subtitled prints from France and Germany, but rather a custom print that had the German (with Swiss orthography) and French subtitles simultaneously. Usually German in plain, French in italics.)

[paulca]

The only one I need to go looking for the is the &euro;  Symbol.  It's mapped under iso-8859-15 as the Euro extension to iso8859-1 western-latin.  It's often on R.Alt + 4.  € <-- hey it works!  Sometimes.

The shift number keys gives:
!"£$%^&*()_+

The difference between this (UK105) is the " on 2 and £ on 3 replace the @ and #  Those exist on the two keys beside enter as lL ;: '@ #~

The other one that can be hard to find is the | and both / and \ .  These I lose particularly on nonUK euro keyboards.

In work I know when the admins have been noisying around my work machine.  They tend to forget to set my keyboard local back to UK.

[metebalci]

…and at the moment I am in Switzerland where you can find I think 3 different keyboard layouts (German, French, Italian).

Oh, it’s way weirder than that. I think that the Italian part of Switzerland uses Italian keyboards, but I’m not sure; I’ve spent practically no time there. (Edit: wiki says they just use the Swiss French layout.)

The French and German parts of Switzerland does not use the French, Italian, or German keyboards at all. They use the Swiss keyboard layout(s). I put the s in parentheses because it’s one physical layout and keycap labeling, but two key mappings in software. Basically, it’s two closely related variants of one layout. There are three keys that aren’t mapped identically: the Swiss German keyboard outputs ä/ö/ü on those keys by default, and  à/é/è shifted. The Swiss French layout is the reverse: it outputs à/é/è by default and ä/ö/ü shifted.

(This is reminiscent of how cinema subtitles worked here in Switzerland back when they used film: they didn’t use the subtitled prints from France and Germany, but rather a custom print that had the German (with Swiss orthography) and French subtitles simultaneously. Usually German in plain, French in italics.)

It is fun to be in a quadlingual country

Yes you are right, I meant Swiss German not German layout but I saw now it has also French keys, I didnt know French speaking part uses the shifted keys by default.