Author Topic: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work  (Read 15662 times)

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Offline soky157

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Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« on: April 20, 2010, 01:07:34 am »
I have the original 2.02 firmware on the Scope. I press Alt button and enter 010, Rigol or  nothing else appears on the Hyper Terminal screen.
Could someone be real specific as the exact cable I should be using. I was using a Serial Cable 9 pin male to 9 pin male (from desktop to Scope).  I did not try to go from my laptop to the Scope as the laptop uses a 15 pin female.

Please help me.

All help will be very much appreciated.

Sincerely,


Soky157
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2010, 01:41:40 am »
As I said in the video it is a straight through cable. You might have a cross-over "null-modem" cable.

Dave.
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2010, 01:47:35 am »
Dave,

You are my hero, I watch your Videos regularly.  Could you please offer me a little more help.

Soky157
 

Offline joelby

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 03:46:32 am »
Check pins 2 and 3 with a multimeter.

On a null modem cable, pin 2 on plug A will be connected to pin 3 on plug B and vice versa.

On a straight cable, pin 2 on plug A will go to pin 2 on plug B.
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 04:52:45 am »
Hello,

It is definitely a Straight Thru cable.(It even says so on the packaging).  9 female on each end.  One end goes to my Desktop PC and the other to the Rigol Scope.

I hope this helps.

Soky157
 

Offline joelby

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 04:57:44 am »
Are you entering 010 from the row of number keys across the top, or using your number pad? The number row generally doesn't work with the Alt trick.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 06:33:10 am »
So many words before but simple:

2 ----------------- 2
3 ----------------- 3  
5 ----------------- 5



My recommendation is that cable is not long,  only < 3 meters.  Cable shield is good to connect only one end (to connector metal ground) and other end isolated..

Remember: 9600 baud, 8 bit, NO parity, 1 stop (not 1,5 or 2), no any kind of handshake. (very stupid but, this is Rigol way to do it)

Before try any mod, try communicate with scope (normal documented command) enough time. Watch all errors, if you see ANY error in communication (example missing answer from scope or corrupted data) As long as you find any kind of error in communicaton do NOT mod!)

If you see any or some errors after your training time then you need check PC - Rigol communication first. (one problem may be windows or computer RS232 port. (all RS232 ports are not good. Some are neraly or full out of original specifications. With other machines I have find this problem as long as there have be PC computers in world and I have make professional critical communication solutions lot of (mainly in old times ;) )

I recommend to use some kind of terminal software what can make Macros (you find many of these free in net)... so you make macro for whole strings what you need send. (this is good becouse if you need repeat you have ready strings and can not make typing errors)
Then you send it by one mouse click. (one for serial, one for model)
LF is always last character you send and remember also space is character!) LF is (decimal coded just as type with ALT 010) Some softwares read #010 for LF. (it is HEX coded 0A)

Also remember that there is NO any kind of handshaking. So Rigol RS port is open all times. If you connect cable there may be some garbage inside buffer allready waiting next LF. (Connect cable first then power on to Scope)

Go to system display just after you turn on scope. (do not send anything after power on in this time... )

In system window send these 2 mod commands (exactly as you have see and better to send them as "macro" string), you see that things what you send change in display. Just as you send. If they do not, if both or just one do not follow you... shut OFF!
(if you need repeat, even if example model or serial have already change as you want... you need send BOTH of these strings.
Do not touch anything (now RUN/STOP is red)
Send reset command.
Run/stop change green. (if uou now try use scope it do not follow any key)
Do not send anything to scope.
Just turn it off and then on.
If all is ok... nice... if not.. repeat (but first think if all serial communication is really ok and without ANY mistakes)

There are many other way also to do this what maybee are ok. I do it this way...becouse <censored>

I have experience of many mods with several 1052E's and still one machine do not work as others.. in this one machine serial numbers prefix (some numbers just after last letter in serial) is lot of different as others.

But main thing: If you are not sure how to do or you have not good gnowledge and experience with serial communications. Make first lot of training with normal documented commands with oscilloscope, it is very safe and it can teach you how to do. After you are sure that all works just exactly without errors then you can try mod more safe. Windows hyperterm is possible most bad terminal what you ever can find. (But also it can use but it need extremely careful becouse all you type all go to port)


For other communication solutions with windows and RS232 it is also good to read this Agilent note... (this is also qualid for Rigol's)

Quote
Problems Using RS-232 on Agilent Instruments with Laptop PCs running any Microsoft OS
Symptoms: Timeouts, corrupt data, missing data, error messages while uploading data


Cause: The RS-232 I/O chip (UART) used on PCs has only a 16-byte buffer. Without real-time flow control, it is possible for buffer overruns to occur, causing a loss of data. If the missing character happens to be a line feed, timeouts can result from the software never seeing the end-of-line terminator.Other missing characters can cause returned data to be wrong.


The Microsoft serial driver does not implement true hardware flow control. It implements all flow control in the software driver. This makes it susceptible to PCI-bus lockouts, higher priority interrupts and interrupt disables. The reason for the software-based flow control is historical, due to the very unreliable early hardware designs: there were a myriad of clones of the 16550 UART, most of them defective. The only solution for Microsoft was to develop a software driver that used as few features as possible, and hardware flow control was therefore done in the driver. Microsoft is unable to change the driver at this point to fix this problem.

The problem has been observed only on laptop PCs, perhaps due to software overhead associated with power management and/or PCMCIA adapters, but theoretically it could occur on desktop PCs too. Faster processors and slower RS-232 baud rates do not help enough to be a satisfactory workaround.

Resolution: Do not use RS-232 for mission critical applications. Instead (1) Consider using 34972A with USB and LAN connectivity built in OR (2) take advantage of the 34970A´s GPIB port.

The 82357A USB / GPIB converter can be connected to a USB port on the portable PC and to the GPIB port on the 34970A. This option will work with laptops that have USB, and Windows 2000, 98 SE, or XP. Windows 3.1, 95 and NT do not support USB.
Use an E5810A LAN to GPIB gateway. The gateway can be connected to the GPIB port on the 34970A then attached to the PC´s LAN (or directly to the PC´s LAN port). The LAN gateway is compatible with Windows® 98 (SE)/Me/NT/2000/XP.
Install a PCMCIA GPIB card. Several vendors supply PCMCIA GPIB cards and typically support Windows® 98 (SE)/Me/NT/2000/XP.
Switch to a desktop PC using a 82350B GPIB card or the 82357A USB-GPIB converter. The 82350A is compatible with Windows® 98 /Me/NT/2000/XP. The RS-232 problem has not been observed on a desktop PC - they use the same hardware and theoretically could have the same problem.
Note: Any of these choices will necessitate changes in your control program. Command strings remain the same, but the communications setups will need to be changed. The instrument mode can be changed programmatically using the SCPI command "SYSTem:INTerface {GPIB | RS232}" or via the front panel. In addition, any code used to initialize RS-232 parameters such as baud rate, parity, and flow control can be removed from the program. Code used to open the RS-232 port needs to be changed such that the GPIB interface is opened instead. This is done from Visual Basic via the commands:

Dim A_34970A As AgtIOServer
Dim iomgr As AgilentIOUtilsLib.AgtIOManager
Set iomgr = New AgtIOManager
Set A_34970A = io_mgr.ConnectToInstrument ("GPIB::9").

If the GPIB address must be changed to something other than the default (9), this can only be done from the front panel. Consult the manual for more information.


(yes, this is well known problem...)

Thank you Mr Bill Gates
Your pants are ....... in every corner with problems.




 



« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 08:39:41 am by rf-loop »
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Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 08:47:23 pm »
Yes, I am using the numeric keypad on the right of my keyboard to press 010.  How long do I keep the Alt key pressed?


Thank you very much,

Soky157
 

Offline TheDirty

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2010, 11:08:16 pm »
You hold the alt key the entire time you are entering the 010.
Mark Higgins
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 01:18:10 am »
Thanks for all your replies. I have tried the things mentioned but as yet I am not able to get the ALT 010 to do anything get the Rigol from 50 to 100 mhz.  Very disappointed.

Sincerely,

Soky157
 

Offline mlaargh

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 01:47:29 am »
If I remember right, I had to use the top number keys for the alt-010 trick on an xp machine. The ten key pad to the right of the keyboard did not work for me. Did you try both ways?
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 02:56:29 am »
Hello,

Yes, I have tried both ways with no success.

Soky157
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 03:28:58 am »
At what point should I have the Rigol Scope Turnen ON? Watching the Video I could not tell for sure.  Also,  When holding down the Alt key while typing in 010...how long at that point should I hold Alt in?

Sincerely,

Soky157
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 04:29:07 am »
You can have the scope turned on at any time, just connect the serial cable and go.
You hold down ALT type the numbers and then release ALT. Make sure you have NUM LOCK turned ON.
Someone mentioned that Crtl-ENTER works too, but I have not tried that.

To test your serial port short out pins 2 and 3, you should see characters echoed back to you.

Dave.
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 04:52:54 am »
Hi,

When you say to test your serial port to short out pins 2 and 3.  As I am very new to this and you are an Engineer could you please tell me how to do that?  (the pins on the cable to my scope or to the Destop PC?  Exactly how would I short them?

Thanks for your help,


Soky157
 

Offline Waifian

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2010, 12:15:45 pm »
Just a wire from the pins 2 to 3 on the end of the cable not connected to your pc. Then with hyperterminal up and echo off see if you get characters on your screen when you type them on the keyboard. If that works then you know you are getting a signal through the cable. You still must check with a multimeters continuity tester that one end of the cable pins 2,3,5 go directly to pins 2,3,5 (these pin holes are labeled on the end of the cables next to the hole. ) on the other end to be sure it is really the right cable. Straight through cables are actually kind of hard to find I had to modify a regular one to work for myself.   
What are you going to be using this o'scope for?
You do have a digital multimeter right?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2010, 01:10:16 pm »
When you say to test your serial port to short out pins 2 and 3.  As I am very new to this and you are an Engineer could you please tell me how to do that?  (the pins on the cable to my scope or to the Destop PC?  Exactly how would I short them?

Take a piece of wire or a paperclip or something and insert into pins 2 and 3 on the connector at the scope end of the cable plugged into the PC forming a shorted loop. The numbers should be marked on the connector.

I've got to say though, if you don't know how to short two pins, then I can't see why you'd need to do the mod and get the full 100MHz bandwidth!

Dave.
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2010, 01:50:03 am »
Thank you for the explanation of how to short the pins I will do that and see what happens.

This is a very friendly and helpful forum of people and I am very appreciative.

Soky157
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2010, 03:56:33 am »
In response to the question from Dave, if I dont know how to short two pins why would I want to mod to 100Mhz.  I do know how to short two pins. I am adept in many things Electronic and Microcontrollers.  What was not clear was pins from the PC Pins or the Scope Pins.  The Serial Pins make since and that is what I will do.

The puzzling thing for me (since I spent many years as a Teacher) is how degrading someone simply because they are brave enough to ask a question that is more than obvious to you. Consider yourself fortunate that you understand things that others are trying to HARD to learn.

Honestly Dave, maybe it is not for you to "understand" me.  Just a simple answer to a question is all that is needed.  Please place your help with others on this forum that are up to your level.

The help thus far from you is appreciated

Soky157
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2010, 05:31:34 am »
In response to the question from Dave, if I dont know how to short two pins why would I want to mod to 100Mhz.  I do know how to short two pins. I am adept in many things Electronic and Microcontrollers.  What was not clear was pins from the PC Pins or the Scope Pins.  The Serial Pins make since and that is what I will do.

The puzzling thing for me (since I spent many years as a Teacher) is how degrading someone simply because they are brave enough to ask a question that is more than obvious to you. Consider yourself fortunate that you understand things that others are trying to HARD to learn.

Honestly Dave, maybe it is not for you to "understand" me.  Just a simple answer to a question is all that is needed.  Please place your help with others on this forum that are up to your level.

The help thus far from you is appreciated

Soky157

No offense intended, just trying to help as usual. In this case, there is potential risk in upgrading your unit, so I thought (and still think) that if someone had to ask a pretty basic question like that then there is probably more risk than usual that they could ruin their unit. I didn't want that to happen. If there was no such issue then I would not have questioned it.

To be fair, your question was:
Quote
When you say to test your serial port to short out pins 2 and 3.  As I am very new to this and you are an Engineer could you please tell me how to do that?  (the pins on the cable to my scope or to the Destop PC?  Exactly how would I short them?

You did ask "how to do that" and said "I am very new to this", so it was very easy to interpret that as being from a complete beginner. So my apologies if you are not.

Regards
Dave.
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2010, 10:31:35 pm »
No worries Dave,

I really do appreciate your taking the time to be concerned and helping me.

Soky157
 

Offline soky157

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2010, 05:57:40 am »
OK, here is what I have found out after following the most recent suggestions:

1) I shorted out Pins 2 & 3 on Serial Cable unplugged from the Rigol Scope (Desktop Serial plugged in)  Nothing that I typed in in Hyperterminal showed up on the Hyperterminal screen.  (Echo was turned off)

2) I tested for Continuity for Pins 2,3 5 (got the Continuity beep tones) they are connected together.  This is a true Straight Thru Serial Cable


Any other suggestions?

Thanks guys for all your help

Soky157
 

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2010, 09:32:34 am »
1) I shorted out Pins 2 & 3 on Serial Cable unplugged from the Rigol Scope (Desktop Serial plugged in)  Nothing that I typed in in Hyperterminal showed up on the Hyperterminal screen.  (Echo was turned off)
Sounds like a problem with either the cable or hyperterminal. Did you select the correct serial port and disable all flow control? Did you verify that there's continuity between pin 2 and 3 on the PC side?

2) I tested for Continuity for Pins 2,3 5 (got the Continuity beep tones) they are connected together.  This is a true Straight Thru Serial Cable
Are pin 2,3,5 connected to the same pins on the other side, or are they shorted together (without you shorting them)? The latter doesn't sound right.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2010, 06:18:18 pm »
have u tried *IDN? command? if you get reply from rigol showing model and serial number, then your cable should be ok i think, correct me if i'm wrong.
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Offline rossmoffett

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Re: Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2010, 06:34:36 pm »
have u tried *IDN? command? if you get reply from rigol showing model and serial number, then your cable should be ok i think, correct me if i'm wrong.

If Hyperterminal isn't even working with a loopback, then the problem does not rest with the scope.  It's a computer or cable issue.

I suggest to the thread author that you read up on wikipedia and other articles on basic serial communication.  Look up the pinouts and different cable types, pay specific attention to how the RX, TX and GROUND wires are connected (all other pins are legacy and are never used in modern devices anymore).  Then you will understand which pins are to be connected where and why, the questions here will make more sense, you'll understand the subject and hopefully get that scope modded safely.

You might also consider that your serial port could be shot.  Laptops especially are easy to blow the serial circuit.  I did a lot of work with industrial serial devices in college and our desktop computers that were 3 years old had 50% dead serial ports from students plugging bad cables or wrong cables in.  Consider purchasing a USB-Serial converter ($10-$20 USD) or try another computer.
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