Rigol DS1052E Logic Analyzer mod development

[sarain]

After reading about the serial software mod for the Rigol DS1052E I took the plunge and bought one. 
So far I am very happy with it but I can't help but wonder what it would take to add that logic analyzer feature. 

I know it has been mentioned that Rigol does not offer a logic analyzer upgrade for this scope but I have a strong feeling that there isn't much more to it (Especially after seeing how they differentiate rated speeds between models.)

Several photos of the DS1052E show a 40 (20x2) pin 0.1" spaced header on the main board which I would hazard to guess is where a logic analyzer module would go.
http://www.ourdev.cn/bbs/bbs_content.jsp?bbs_sn=3428440&bbs_page_no=1&bbs_id=3043

If someone here has the DS1052D or DS1102D with the logic analyzer and has taken theirs apart or would be willing to take theirs apart, could you please post some pictures of the logic analyzer daughter card and any differences on the main board. 

If it doesn't use any programmable or hard to find parts, we may be able to easily build our own logic analyzer daughter cards.  Then we would just need to find a way to safely upgrade to the logic analyzer compatible firmware.

Someone on the RC groups forum reverse engineered the pinout on the 40 pin header coming out of his DS1000CD.  I wouldn't be surprised if they use the same pinout for the DS1052E/D
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663958&page=2
Which might mean that the daughter card is nothing but a pigtail to the front panel.

Also, do the DS1052D scopes come with an "Active Logic Head" (LH1116) (pictured here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697992) or is this functionality likely built into the scope on the daughter card?

If we can figure this out, we will be able to turn our $400 - $600 scopes into $1,000 - $1,500 scopes for next to nothing!

Edit:  Also, if anyone else has ideas about this and / or wants to pitch in, let us all know.

[rossmoffett]

There's a 1 meg memory chip on there for sure, someone has already piped up about that.

[EEVblog]

I know it has been mentioned that Rigol does not offer a logic analyzer upgrade for this scope but I have a strong feeling that there isn't much more to it (Especially after seeing how they differentiate rated speeds between models.)

Curiously, tequipment.net seem to offer the logic module separately:
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1000LM.html

Dave.

[birlan97]

I know it has been mentioned that Rigol does not offer a logic analyzer upgrade for this scope but I have a strong feeling that there isn't much more to it (Especially after seeing how they differentiate rated speeds between models.)

Curiously, tequipment.net seem to offer the logic module separately:
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1000LM.html

Dave.

Where do I find some characteristics for Rigol DS 1000LM ?

[sarain]

Curiously, tequipment.net seem to offer the logic module separately:
http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1000LM.html

That is interesting.  Too bad it costs about as much as the difference in cost between the D and E models.  And no picture of the product on that site either.

One clue this offers is that an upgrade very well may be just a daughter card with no modifications to the main board.

What is the chance that the logic module at tequipment.net and the "Active Logic Head" (LH1116) mentioned in the RC group forums is the same thing.  The product listing uses LH1116 in the name but I can't tell if they are saying it goes with the LH1116 or it is the LH1116.

If the LH1116 is the daughter card, I kind of doubt that they would put it in the E series units as it is pictured on the RC groups forum.  I would guess they would just put the board in there and leave off the fancy plastic case if that is even what they are using.

Under "Optional Accessories" on the Rigol website they have a picture of what looks like the LH1116 and they call it a "Logic Analyzer Module."  It isn't clear to me whether that can be used in any way with the D series scopes though because that page is for both the D and E units.
http://www.rigolna.com/products_ds1000d.aspx

There's a 1 meg memory chip on there for sure, someone has already piped up about that.

Do you happen to remember where this was mentioned?  Did they indicate whether it was on the main board or a daughter board?

[wd5gnr]

As far as I can tell, the picture on the rigolna site (which is not rigolusa, by the way) is just the "pod". I do not have a D model, but all but the slowest logic analyzers usually have pods that plug into the device. On my big analyzer, for example, there are two pods that have high speed comparators with a differential output that then goes over the long wires back to the actual device.

I think that's all this is. From what I can tell there is another board in the D plus the pod. If you read the rc forums, I think they have a take apart of the pod and also many negative comments about the logic analyzer functionality (but they like the scope).

[kjard21]

I have the DS1102D (2+16 channel 100MHz 1GSa/s) and it came with an external pod which is the part with the LH1116 part number), a ribbon cable which connects the pod to the front of the scope (connector under the display) and a set of pod wires (with numbered "flags") and clips to attach the wires to the circuit under test.

There is a variety of representations around the 'net but the DS1102D that I bought included the pod, ribbon cable, wires&clips etc.  I fault Rigol for this as they themselves seem to have a number of sites with inconsistent information - their sites and those of their vendors make it difficult to tell what you purchasing.

As wd5gnr said, the RC forum folks find the scope ok but the logic analyzer functionality rather limited.  There is a daughter card in the scope which is directly attached the connector to which the pod attaches.  The daughter card (in the scope not the pod) includes 2 main chips - an Altera Cyclone II FPGA and an ISSI IS61LPS25636A-200TQLI (which Mouser lists as an SRAM 8Mb 256Kx36 200Mhz 3.3v I/O) Both of these are TQFP's.

I can also confirm what the folks on the Chinese forum found - Rigol has attempted to obscure the identifying information on 3 Analog Devices AD9288 chips by grinding the tops of these 3 chips (one assumes they are identical based on placement etc. but I was only able to partially identify one of the 3.) The datasheet lists as an "8-Bit, 40/80/100 MSPS Dual A/D Converter."  The datasheet also states that the AD9288 (8bit) is pin-compatible with the 9218 which is 10bit.  I am curious about why Rigol attempted to hide the nature of these converters.

I have modest needs for this scope and la currently so it has worked ok so far.  I'm disappointed to read about the overall capabilities of the la section and Rigol's apparent final response which I understood to mean "it's a toy LA so don't expect too much" and now to find that Rigol feels the need to hide which D/A converters they are using etc.   I am now more curious about how well this la stacks up to some of the inexpensive USB etc. logic analyzers out there.

I've never worked with FPGAs so have no idea how easy or difficult it might be to replace the pod and daughter board with something else.

Note if you try to disassemble one of these scopes be sure to first remove the power switch button cap;  on the DS1102D which is a push-on cap that should pull straight up and off the SPST push button switch.  You will still need to be careful of the switch and negotiate your way around the AC plug.

[EEVblog]

I can also confirm what the folks on the Chinese forum found - Rigol has attempted to obscure the identifying information on 3 Analog Devices AD9288 chips by grinding the tops of these 3 chips (one assumes they are identical based on placement etc. but I was only able to partially identify one of the 3.) The datasheet lists as an "8-Bit, 40/80/100 MSPS Dual A/D Converter."  The datasheet also states that the AD9288 (8bit) is pin-compatible with the 9218 which is 10bit.  I am curious about why Rigol attempted to hide the nature of these converters.

They obscure them because they are using the 40MHz part at 100MHz, and they didn't want people to know that. The same chip is available from AD as a 100MHz part, but you pay lot more for it. Almost certainly the same die, so that's why they get away with overclocking like this, and it's one of Rigol's early tricks to get into the 1GS/s club so cheaply.

Dave.

[kjard21]

Initial pic was pretty much the whole board but here are a couple of other pics. 

[charliex]

though its always cool you guys are hacking away at this, i can't help feel you're going to be looking at about the cost of a sump LA even as an add on, and it'll be less powerful.

http://oakmicros.com/content/downloads/Download-document/Logic-Analyzer-User-Guide.html

the sump has all the source code available for the fpga+client, and its got more inputs, it looks like oak micros may have stopped making the omla32 5v interface , but the schematics are in the above link.

you can get dangerous protoypes version of the sump from seeedstudios, its a lot cheaper, but doesn't do as much. and with the digilent board, you get an fpga dev kit too ( though the dp one can also be repurposed)

but still cool none the less.

[kjard21]

@charliex - For myself, was just interested to see how it was built.

@shafri - I did not completely disassemble the chassis but it appears that the ribbon cable runs directly to the connector on the front panel for the LH1116.

[Crippled]

Initial pic was pretty much the whole board but here are a couple of other pics. 

Apparently the ISSI is a static RAM module, so the software to be written to the RAM and to the FPGA will come from the scope's firmware through the pins written where is written "on the bottom side".

[krater]

Hello,

some short ideas to the mod:

- building this board costs under 150$
- the 8 pin chip on the board is a flash chip that maybee enables the logic analyzer functions in the firmware
- firmware that running on 1052E and 1052D are neareby the same with some E switched to D, firmware files are zipped, from there comes the big difference
- both, LA board and main board have jtag connectors, put the board together and use the software from here http://nsa.unaligned.org/jrev.php to get the connections from fpga to mainboard
- ISSI chip unfortunatly has only in the BGA version jtag, so the connections must meassured manual
- some additional manual meassurement and we have the schematic of the board and can layout our own

some quetions to the mod:
- in the probe-box that you connect to the scope, are there any electronic parts ?
- has anyone used the jtag connectors on the 2 boards with success ?
- who has one of these boards an can try out jtag-things on it ?
- how we read out the 8 pin chip ?


cheers,
krater