Author Topic: Saleae logic price increases and interesting blog post explanation  (Read 68079 times)

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Offline pickle9000

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Re: Saleae logic price increases and interesting blog post explanation
« Reply #150 on: January 22, 2015, 10:22:38 pm »
So was the case design original?

I see similar case styles for stuff from time to time.

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=Amlogic+S802&rt=nc&_pppn=r1&LH_FS=1

 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Saleae logic price increases and interesting blog post explanation
« Reply #151 on: January 22, 2015, 11:01:28 pm »
Machined cases are a lot less spendy than they used to be.  They're about the same price as injection molding, according to Dangerous Prototypes.
The main reason why your quote is false, is that you dont' mention numbers.

-100 parts /run or 100.000 parts/run ?
-lead time 3 days or 3 weeks ?
-number of variations ?
-...
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Saleae logic price increases and interesting blog post explanation
« Reply #152 on: January 22, 2015, 11:11:44 pm »
For all the pissing, moaning, and controversy over a dinky ass metal box with four screws, Saleae should start selling a DIY papier-mâché case.

Sheesh...
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: Saleae logic price increases and interesting blog post explanation
« Reply #153 on: January 22, 2015, 11:59:21 pm »
Machined cases are a lot less spendy than they used to be.  They're about the same price as injection molding, according to Dangerous Prototypes.
The main reason why your quote is false, is that you dont' mention numbers.

-100 parts /run or 100.000 parts/run ?
-lead time 3 days or 3 weeks ?
-number of variations ?
-...

I'm sure that cost relates to the cost of getting the mold cut for the machine. Even a very simple one can be 3000.00, they have to fit the injection machine. Once done for items like this super low cost to produce. 
 

Offline MattSR

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Re: Saleae logic price increases and interesting blog post explanation
« Reply #154 on: January 23, 2015, 03:28:26 am »
So was the case design original?

I see similar case styles for stuff from time to time.

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=Amlogic+S802&rt=nc&_pppn=r1&LH_FS=1

Yeah - I first noticed it when looking at the app icons on my iPhone, then I looked at an Apple TV and a Mac Mini - they all seem to have similar geometry.. :)
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: Saleae logic price increases and interesting blog post explanation
« Reply #155 on: January 23, 2015, 03:44:24 am »
So was the case design original?

I see similar case styles for stuff from time to time.

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=Amlogic+S802&rt=nc&_pppn=r1&LH_FS=1

Yeah - I first noticed it when looking at the app icons on my iPhone, then I looked at an Apple TV and a Mac Mini - they all seem to have similar geometry.. :)

Not much of an apple follower so no wonder I missed it. It is a nice look.

Just a thought, pretty amazing that there are not boxes like that sold on ebay or elsewhere in the Chinese market. They are stackable by nature, expandable center section, insert on one side (clear, red, blue perspex) of center section, top and bottom with an inset for a sticker. Could be used for a massive number of consumer grade products.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Saleae logic price increases and interesting blog post explanation
« Reply #156 on: January 23, 2015, 03:46:56 am »
I'm not sure how apple using milled aluminum really makes that process any cheaper though.  It's not like they invented a new way to machine aluminum.  It's still setup time, and machine time, and cleanup time, and anodize time, and pack and ship time.  You can't really cut those corners.  If what he's trying to say is that for small quantities the cost of a injection molding die is more than paying the high unit cost of machining aluminum, then ya I can probably believe that, but the question then is how many do you plan to make over the lifetime of the product?

It doesn't matter if you (or me, or anyone) can't work out how the price dropped.  Apparently, it dropped.

The process probably isn't cheaper, you're right.  But, I'll bet there are a lot more places around doing aluminum molding & milling, and competition alone will drive the price down.  So, probably, margins have gone down, and that could be why it's less expensive, now.

The price of CNC machining has gone down over the years, but it's got nothing to do with Apple.  Apple are at the front of the curve in terms of volume and the cost benefits you can get from efficiency, but they haven't pioneered any new manufacturing technologies that have changed anything, AFAIK.

Milling aluminum is all about how fast you can spin the spindle and how accurately you can move the axes into the spindle to cut the metal.  There are things around that didn't exist 20 years ago, like air/oil lube, ceramic bearings, 60,000rpm spindles, linear motors and more.  The newest machines can accelerate/decelerate their axes at over 2G's and can move and feed into the material at 2,000 inches per minute.  Combined with 24k, 30k, 40k and higher spindles, that means parts that used to take 10 minutes to machine could now be machined in 2 or 3 minutes.  In addition, software and electronics have kept up - you need a pretty fast processor to crunch all the numbers, read all the data and carefully move the motors in tiny increments and get accurate results.  That's only happened in the past 10 years, really.

FWIW, Apple was using tons of Fanuc Robodrills, and they were also buying up all the small VMC's and Drill/Tap centers they could get their hands on. 

The other thing that has driven costs down is just as the segment goes higher end, the cost of lower end machinery and processes drops.  Right now there is a lot of advancement in multi-axis machining, cutting tools, materials and coatings.  But milling aluminum is about as plain-jane as it gets, and anyone with a VMC can do it.

If Salae is getting decent pricing, I can't imagine those little housings costing more than $2-3 which would include the anodizing. 

You have to make a LOT of them before injection molding becomes cheaper. 
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Saleae logic price increases and interesting blog post explanation
« Reply #157 on: January 26, 2015, 03:38:28 pm »
If Salae is getting decent pricing, I can't imagine those little housings costing more than $2-3 which would include the anodizing. 

You have to make a LOT of them before injection molding becomes cheaper.

Like, for example, 100.000 units. Or 10.000 units. Depending on a lot of details, project specific.

There's another important dimension to the definition of that number, or choice: The amount of variations.
Within reasonable assumptions and normal circomstances, you can easily have 1 model with 10 variations on a CNC, and not on injection moulding.

This means raw posing, testing, ejection and quality control stays the same, the only difference is making 2 instead of 1 hole for the connector of the Logic4 or Logic8.
On injection molding you mostly need a second mould.
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 


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