Author Topic: SciFi movies and pathetic misconceptions of tech failing for the story line.  (Read 18097 times)

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Online coppercone2

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jericho is not scifi though, its a thriller war/disaster movie and show
 

Offline mendip_discovery

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The sand pits where always a bit of a joke. But the shows were for kids mostly so they just used thier imagination.

Oh another Brit series that any SciFi fan needs to see is the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Not the new one, the old one.

I quite enjoyed Fringe as it was so bonkers with the science that it allowed me to be ok with it. I think it helped with having some half decent actors.

Science in TV/Film will always be a challenge as science evolves so some of it dates very quickly. Then there is the need to get some drama so they speed up some basic theory to keep pacing or blow ot pit of proportions to make it scary.
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Offline vk6zgo

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jericho is not scifi though, its a thriller war/disaster movie and show
You are really nit-picking---it is a post-apocalyptic story, just like Neville Shute's "On the Beach", John Wyndham's "The Chrysalids", Walter M Miller's "a Canticle for Liebowitz", Pat Frank's  "Alas, Babylon", Ray Bradbury's "There Will Come Soft Rains" & a host of other stories which were published as "Science Fiction" books, or appeared in "Science Fiction" magazines in the 1950s and 1960s.
 

Online tggzzz

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Quite honestly, the Brits produced some seriously dire programmes back in those days, although they steadfastly believed they made the "best programmes" in the World.

Sturgeon's Law isn't just for books, nor for one country!

Some of the seriously dire programmes were extremely popular. I always hated (and was bewildered by) "The Black and White Minstrels"; nowadays it is still useful as a simple quick example of how much progress has been made. Others include "Love Thy Neighbour". (Curiously, modern idiots take "Till Death Us Do Part" as being a documentary whereas it was actually a satire).
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online tggzzz

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Oh another Brit series that any SciFi fan needs to see is the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Not the new one, the old one.

Heresy! The best is the original radio series - it has much better pictures. Seriously. Especially in a dark room with headphones. The pioneering Radiophonic Workshop at its finest.

The only other variant that has come close was Ken Cambell's stage version at The Rainbow. That eschewed grotty prosthetics for Zaphod's second head in favour of keeping the spirit of the original: two actors in a single jumpsuit. (I imagine the actors preferred that to being the rear end of a pantomime horse).
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online coppercone2

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jericho is not scifi though, its a thriller war/disaster movie and show
You are really nit-picking---it is a post-apocalyptic story, just like Neville Shute's "On the Beach", John Wyndham's "The Chrysalids", Walter M Miller's "a Canticle for Liebowitz", Pat Frank's  "Alas, Babylon", Ray Bradbury's "There Will Come Soft Rains" & a host of other stories which were published as "Science Fiction" books, or appeared in "Science Fiction" magazines in the 1950s and 1960s.

I don't see how its sci fi unless there was a disaster that caused some kind of changes to occur. Surviving a disaster like a nuclear war seems more a thriller like 'volcano' then something to do with space, advanced technology that we did not see, etc. I consider that a misclassification unless its about how society changed and developed differently because of some kind of event. A disaster is a prelude to scifi, but dealing with a disaster hardly seems scifi. Like cherry 2000 is scifi that was introduced with a nuclear war. on the beach has what scifi elements in it? I would say that its a highly technical thriller. I would say it has low levels of imaginative technologies, if any. There is no framework of unknown technologies introduced in which to tell a logical story, its just dealing with present day crap gone wrong.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 09:31:51 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Quite honestly, the Brits produced some seriously dire programmes back in those days, although they steadfastly believed they made the "best programmes" in the World.

Sturgeon's Law isn't just for books, nor for one country!

Some of the seriously dire programmes were extremely popular. I always hated (and was bewildered by) "The Black and White Minstrels"; nowadays it is still useful as a simple quick example of how much progress has been made. Others include "Love Thy Neighbour". (Curiously, modern idiots take "Till Death Us Do Part" as being a documentary whereas it was actually a satire).

I always found Black & White Minstrels" cringeworthy, as I couldn't see why the dancers had to wear blackface.
Sing the songs, maybe, but there was no reason to promote stupid stereotypes, no black person ever having looked like that!
From memory we also had it on TV in Australia back in the 1960s---I guess I must have been "woke" back then!

I still couldn't abide Alf Garnett, although it was a magnificent portrayal of an "Ignorant old Pommy Bastard" on the part of Warren Mitchell.
Funny thing, although I initially thought him "over the top", I met blokes like him, (all Brits) both in Oz, & during my long ago stay in the UK.

I even worked with a chap who was pretty much the manifestation in every way of another English stereotype----"Andy Capp".

Old, short & ugly, he would regale us with stories of his romantic dalliances, just like his cartoon "alter ego" who spent his time chasing what were called in that faraway time, "Dolly Birds".

Meanwhile, relatively normal, quite pleasant blokes were mostly pessimistic about their chances with members of the opposite sex.
 

Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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I just started watching the movie 'The Cloverfield Paradox'.
I mean, unless our sun has dissipated, how is it possible for us to just run out of energy?
I guess I'll have to watch the rest of the movie to find out what this free limitless energy BS is about.
 

Offline Psi

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To watch any Sci-Fi you have to be willing to force your brain into assumptions that some currently understood laws of science are wrong or incomplete, and that a future discovery will replace or update them in such a way as to make what you're watching scientifically accurate.


Maybe try the TV Show Fringe.
It's easier to get your brain to accept 'Fringe Science' when it's presented as such.   
Compared to getting annoyed when a show presents real science that is wrong, if it's presenting pseudo science it's easier to accept that it could maybe be correct for the purposes of watching the show.

Also Fringe is a great show.

Another great show is Person of Interest. It starts off more of a crime/cop show, but it's a sci'fi show under that. Mainly about AI and it really gets amazing as you get into later seasons.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 12:05:44 pm by Psi »
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Online tszaboo

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There are Soft Sci-fi and Hard Sci-fi movies and books. In soft, the sci-fi part is just a setting, where the rules bend to support the story. Think of Star Wars.
Hard, the story is supposed to make sense with the physics. Or at least some in universe rules. Like warping in Star Trek might not be possible with our universe, but over the years it was uphold as a semi-consistent rule (if you ignore newtrek). The Expanse is a great example for Hard Sci-Fi. Or the Martian.

To watch any Sci-Fi you have to be willing to force your brain into assumptions that some currently understood laws of science are wrong or incomplete, and that a future discovery will replace or update them in such a way as to make what you're watching scientifically accurate.


Maybe try the TV Show Fringe.
It's easier to get your brain to accept 'Fringe Science' when it's presented as such.   
Compared to getting annoyed when a show presents real science that is wrong, if it's presenting pseudo science it's easier to accept that it could maybe be correct for the purposes of watching the show.

Also Fringe is a great show.

Another great show is Person of Interest. It starts off more of a crime/cop show, but it's a sci'fi show under that. Mainly about AI and it really gets amazing as you get into later seasons.

PoI is a great show with it's over-arching story.
And yes, I could get annoyed when a story is presented as hard sci-fi and then it breaks the rules constantly. Like Gravity. Or Interstellar (none of that movie made sense in terms of physics). The latest one that I saw was a big offender was Ad Astra. If you want really really bad science, to the point where it's so ridiculous it's funny, watch Moonfall.

And what is very good was For All Mankind (apple TV series). Or Moon.
Honestly, I kinda understand why they don't make that much hard sci-fi, it could be kinda boring, where you travel months to the nearest planet, and if something goes wrong for example during EVA, you are dead in a second.
 

Offline snarkysparky

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Mega Kudos to The Expanse for taking the pains to do gravity and acceleration well.  At least in the first three seasons.  Later in the series people just walked about the ship while under acceleration.  New writers i guess.

As for Doctor who to me is seems they just quit trying to write episodes.  It became a stream of crap thrown together just to get an episode out.
The good Dr Who

The Impossible Planet,  The Satan Pit,  Silence in the Library ,  The Stone Angels...   That time period.

Firefly was a good show but they made no attempt to get spaceflight correct.

 

Online coppice

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I'll also have to take a look at Blake's 7.

Plot line: a group of random political prisoners steal the most powerful fighter spaceship in the galaxy. Later they find an omniscient computer. Each episode they still manage to get themselves into scrapes with vastly inferior opposition forces.

The final series ending was memorably good, though.
That doesn't really give the flavour of Blake's 7. It was a space series with a super low budget. So low, they didn't even try to disguise how crudely everything was done. They chose some of the worst actors in the world. People even started joke charity funds to send the actors to drama school. The result was something you either find amusingly cheesy or just plain annoying.
 

Online tggzzz

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If you want really really bad science, to the point where it's so ridiculous it's funny, watch Moonfall.

Ah, what it is like to be young, and not to remember 1950/60s movies[1], nor TV programmes like Space 1999.

[1] exceptions: The Day the Earth Stood Still, Forbidden Planet, 2001
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Online tszaboo

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Mega Kudos to The Expanse for taking the pains to do gravity and acceleration well.  At least in the first three seasons.  Later in the series people just walked about the ship while under acceleration.  New writers i guess.
Let's geek out a bit.
You could walk on the ships which were burning pro or retrograde. The ship was built like a office tower, the decks were vertical to the Epstein drive. They kept a comfortable 1/3 G on most ships. Also note the magnetic boots they were often times wearing. I think they even mentioned that Earth ships were faster because the crew could handle more Gs than the Belter or MCRN ships.
They were strapped into the seats when they were doing course corrections, so basically when the RCS thrusters would be used, not the main drive.

If you want really really bad science, to the point where it's so ridiculous it's funny, watch Moonfall.

Ah, what it is like to be young, and not to remember 1950/60s movies[1], nor TV programmes like Space 1999.

[1] exceptions: The Day the Earth Stood Still, Forbidden Planet, 2001
Well OP was mainly asking about recent sci-fi, right? Otherwise let's mention James Bond Moonraker.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 03:14:00 pm by tszaboo »
 

Offline TimFox

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An important detail:  the movie Moonraker bore no resemblance to the original Fleming novel.
From Wikipedia's plot summary of the novel: 
"In the latter half of the novel, Bond is seconded to Drax's staff as the businessman builds the Moonraker, a prototype missile designed to defend England. Unknown to Bond, Drax is German, an ex-Nazi now working for the Soviets; his plan is to build the rocket, arm it with a nuclear warhead, and fire it at London. Uniquely for a Bond novel, Moonraker is set entirely in Britain, which raised comments from some readers, complaining about the lack of exotic locations."
 

Online tggzzz

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If you want really really bad science, to the point where it's so ridiculous it's funny, watch Moonfall.

Ah, what it is like to be young, and not to remember 1950/60s movies[1], nor TV programmes like Space 1999.

[1] exceptions: The Day the Earth Stood Still, Forbidden Planet, 2001
Well OP was mainly asking about recent sci-fi, right? Otherwise let's mention James Bond Moonraker.

The OP was incorrectly stating it is a modern phenomenon, viz "...just that it's getting bad". It isn't.

The less said about any film with Roger Moore in it, the better :) Doubly so his James Bond films. Moore is pretty much the canonical example of a wooden actor; the only way he is capable of expressing emotion is by raising one eyebrow.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 04:06:31 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online tggzzz

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[1] exceptions: The Day the Earth Stood Still, Forbidden Planet, 2001

The Day the Earth Stood Still does exactly what OP is complaining about.  They don't mention EMP, but the aliens magically turn off all electrical devices on Earth.  In addition, the plot makes no sense.  Great movie though.

Not mentioning EMP is important, since it avoids false explanations.

Of course it appears to be magic. That is a characteristic of any sufficiently advanced science. (With apologies to Arthur C. Clarke).
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 07:26:59 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline mendip_discovery

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Firefly was a good show but they made no attempt to get spaceflight correct.

Hmm, I guess you never watched the opening sequence of the first episode. So they did make at least 1 attempt.

I will admit I enjoyed Fringe and other than anna torv it was rather good.

Don't diss the 7 of Blake's becuase it was TV of it's time. Dr who wasn't much better.
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Online tggzzz

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Firefly was a good show but they made no attempt to get spaceflight correct.

Hmm, I guess you never watched the opening sequence of the first episode. So they did make at least 1 attempt.

I will admit I enjoyed Fringe and other than anna torv it was rather good.

Don't diss the 7 of Blake's becuase it was TV of it's time. Dr who wasn't much better.

Blake's 7 started well, but then they got the most powerful ship in the universe and an omniscient computer - and still managed to get into stupid positions every episode. More series should emulate the final episode, though.

Dr Who is fantasy, not SF.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online MathWizard

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Here's a car accident that looks like it's from The Matrix or some Marvel movie. And then the tire still catches up and hits the Kia again, and probably stops next to it LOL
 

Online coppice

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Firefly was a good show but they made no attempt to get spaceflight correct.
Good sci-fi doesn't break physics (or chemistry, or anything else we understand well). It does, however, always make the assumption we have been able to work around an apparent obstacle we face today. Are you unhappy about them travelling to far so fast, with no apparent FTL technology, or they way the ships often moved in space like they were using wings against an atmosphere? I'm OK with the FTL issue. The stories won't work unless they can actually get around easily. The latter always makes me cringe.
 

Online coppice

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Blake's 7 started well, but then they got the most powerful ship in the universe and an omniscient computer - and still managed to get into stupid positions every episode. More series should emulate the final episode, though.
They were not supposed to be the sharpest tools in the shed. Being a bunch of hapless crooks who thought they were the galaxy's master criminal was at the heart of the series.
 

Offline james_s

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and if the glow plug battery is connected to a battery charger that is connected to a electrical grid then it could destroy the glow plugs or wiring or explode the battery
No, the most likely scenario is the charger's transformer may fry itself, but secondly what will happen either way is the charger's diodes will fry to a short, shorting out the battery, thus making the wiring between charger and battery slowly burn up so long as there is enough charge in said battery to do so and there is no fusing between the battery and charger's bridge diodes.

You don't even really *need* the glow plugs anyway. Squirt a spritz of ether or even just gasoline or WD40 into the intake of an old diesel and you can start it without the glow plugs.
 

Offline Gyro

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I still get drawn back to 'This Island Earth', where the hero's parts order is intercepted by the aliens and they send him a little bead capacitor that vastly exceeds the voltage rating of his big, metal canned, Paper in Oil one to pique his interest. :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Island_Earth

Best Regards, Chris
 
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Online coppice

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I still get drawn back to 'This Island Earth', where the hero's parts order is intercepted by the aliens and they send him a little bead capacitor that vastly exceeds the voltage rating of his big, metal canned, Paper in Oil one to pique his interest. :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Island_Earth
This Island Earth is a pretty good movie. It has lots of nice little ideas in it like that. The overall story arc is weak, but the little ideas make it very watchable.
 


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