General > General Technical Chat

Seeking advice in switching job?

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rstofer:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 25, 2023, 06:04:44 pm ---
--- Quote from: rstofer on August 25, 2023, 05:25:58 pm ---I don't know how your employee benefits stack up but in the US, employee overhead is around 35%.  To pay you $50,000 per year costs the company $67,500 give or take.  When you take the contractor path, make sure to add the 35% to your hourly rate.  I don't know what medical insurance costs but around here it is outrageous.  Don't forget to price in vacations and sick leave (usually included in the 35%.

How binding is the three months notice?  Around here, two weeks is normal.

--- End quote ---
In Europe 3 months notice is not unusual for specialist engineers. That leaves some time to hire somebody else to take over. An employer could sue due to breach of contract. Also keep in mind that the world is small so breaching a contract might hurt you somewhere down the line because people talk.

Medical insurance is typically not super expensive in Europe but depends on the country.

--- End quote ---

In my experience, companies don't hire a replacement while the leaving employee is still on the books.  No budget for additional headcount.  Some don't even start recruiting...

I would imagine 3 months of bad feelings, declining morale and strained relations.  The company knows you are leaving, they're no longer interested.  You know you're leaving, why give max effort?

In the US, employment contracts aren't used much.  Pretty much everything is 'at will', easy come, easy go.  You change jobs in Silicon Valley by turning into the wrong parking lot one morning.   Two weeks notice is common but sometimes negotiable.  Up and walking out the door is discouraged.  Employers are extremely limited in what they can say about employees, former or current.  Basically just date of hire, date of termination and salary band (but generally not exact salary).  Don't expect a glowing recommendation or a huge flaming, it won't happen (or lawyers get involved).

The boss' job is to make the system work for his employees, not just smile and wave.  Of course HR wants uniformity.  That way they don't have to do anything and that's one thing they are good at.

dzseki:
Indeed, "my" product line is not so important economically, because it is a very specialized instrument, so the market for that is limited. Nevertheless we are the market leaders in terms of key specifications, and have a wide install base at "important" customers who might buy other instruments as well. Also we are talking about industrial electronics with a planned service time of 7-10 years, you can't withdraw a product from the market overnight.

Bud:
HR is often outsourced, meaning they fill interview checklist and push othet papers around. They have no clue about value of a particular employee. On the other hand, if a hiring manager tells them he/she wants to hire that specific applicant, HR may even not put the applicant through interviews, they would just contact the applicant with instructions what paperwork needs to be sent to complete the process.

thermistor-guy:

--- Quote from: dzseki on August 24, 2023, 10:01:17 pm ---...
I work for medium-large company with ~1000 employees, we produce industrial measuring equipments for a specific sector. I work here for more than 8 years, started as a service engineer, but I am a Product Manager now. While true that I am responsible for a certain product family, but -despite the size of the company- I am my own Product Engineer, even further I am also the chief development engineer of this tool right now. The reason for this is that I worked my entire career working around this particular instrument, and the tool and metrology is rather complex, the main unit consist of about 3500 electronic components, and the other development engineers within the company always try to keep a distance of this product due to its complexity, while the only more experienced engineer than me retired a few years ago.
...

--- End quote ---
There is another factor I would consider: you've worked there more than 8 years. Technologies change in that time. Your value as an engineer
can decrease, as your knowledge gets further away from the commercial leading edge.

In my career as a design engineer, I tended to change jobs every 5 years or so. But not because of some deliberate schedule.

Often, after 5 years, the design work was done, the products were stable, and the technology was mature. The work that would keep me valuable
as a designer was elsewhere, in other companies.

And I loved design. If I was going to keep working as a designer, I had to change jobs. It's easy to drift into a situation where you're
valuable only to one company ,and effectively can't leave, because no-one else will pay you equivalent money. I saw many engineers succumb to that.

So, you've been there 8+ years, and you've come a long way. Is it time to move, to keep your skills fresh and go further?

thermistor-guy:

--- Quote from: Bicurico on August 26, 2023, 12:02:17 pm ---...
3) NOBODY IS IRREPLACEABLE! If you quit your job, they will find someone else to do it or they might decide to just drop "your special product", as it obvisously can't be that important economically and strategially, if in a company with 1000+ employees, said product depends on just one guy.


--- End quote ---

Even if you are irreplaceable, they still won't care. You and the product are numbers on a spreadsheet, that's it. It's not mean-spirited,
it's just reality.

Example: I worked for an R&D company that developed unique technology. A German company took over, fired *everyone*, moved all operations
to a S.E. Asian location. They couldn't make the product, because they had fired all the manufacturing and engineering know-how.

Did the Germans then approach the original staff, to help fix the situation? Of course not. They just made a sub-standard under-performing
product. Numbers on a spreadsheet.


--- Quote ---4) Never approach the board with "I have another job offer". Any reasonable administration board will reply "go for it". They will never offer you a better deal to stay. It is for a reason that one should never give in to blackmail and that would be exactly the case. Instead, approach the administration board and explain your value, your current situation and why you are unhappy. Explain what you need to make ends meet and if they refuse, tell them that you will actively start seeking other job opportunities. Note that you have not resigned, yet! Once you find a better job, quit your current job in good terms. If they decide to make a counter offer, consider it, but in my opinion, you should stick to your word and effectively change. You can then wait a year or so and ask them if they want you back. This is how you can get a really good raise.

--- End quote ---

 If you are going to move, just move. I have seen companies pull this trick:

1. the valuable employee wants a better deal. The company says no.

2. The valuable employee says he is leaving. The company then entices the valuable employee to stay with a special offer.

3. The valuable employee stays. After a delay, the company explains, with regret, why it can't fulfill the special offer.

Your nice-guy boss is not in charge. Other people are.

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