Self-destructing 14-pin DIP

[GK]

I only got up to the scene where Tom Selleck rescues Kirstie Alley from the sentry robot. The film was just too daft and well before then it was obvious that the blonde was never going to get her norks out.

The detonating DIP was a highlight though:

http://youtu.be/rzX6wxeneaY?t=1080

 

[MK14]

It looks like, he shorted out multiple pins of the IC, while probing it.
It may have damaged the IC, hence causing it to overheat. Potentially making gases build up inside the chip, and hence the mini-explosion.

I haven't watched the rest of the documentary, so may have missed other information.

 

[Alex Eisenhut]

Looks like latch up. Let the nerds clean up the mess, I'm chatting up Cynthia Rhodes instead.

[station240]

"See that red stripe it's not a regular commercial chip"

lol you can see the TI logo, and they didn't even sand the numbers off.
Not entirely clear, but the bottom line seems to read 74LS...

[MK14]

"See that red stripe it's not a regular commercial chip"

lol you can see the TI logo, and they didn't even sand the numbers off.
Not entirely clear, but the bottom line seems to read 74LS...

You need to put your glasses on, or get your prescription updated.

It seems to be a CD4011AE !
Made in Malaysia.

Feel free to zoom in on the clearer picture, below:

[Kleinstein]

A latch-up can do quite some damage to a chip - especially in older computer HW with a powerful supply. I have seen the port drivers (7406 or similar AFAIR)  in 2 printers to have a blown away top. The likely cause was connecting the printer while still powered and than latch-up triggered by ESD.

[GK]

It seems to be a CD4011AE !

OMG! Just think of the depth of that chips capacity for being re-programmed with sinister AI! It will override the CPU! Terror!

 

[MK14]

A latch-up can do quite some damage to a chip - especially in older computer HW with a powerful supply. I have seen the port drivers (7406 or similar AFAIR)  in 2 printers to have a blown away top. The likely cause was connecting the printer while still powered and than latch-up triggered by ESD.

Latchup is very possible.
The old/original CD4011AE, A = unprotected inputs (i.e. lacking ESD protection diodes, if I remember correctly)

You just had to look at them funny, for them to instantly destroy themselves.
Jokes aside, I remember they would break, way too easily.
TTL was considerably more robust, and the 40xxB types (B), were more reliable.

[MK14]

It seems to be a CD4011AE !

OMG! Just think of the depth of that chips capacity for being re-programmed with sinister AI! It will override the CPU! Terror!

 

If I remember correctly, with the unprotected A type (40xxA etc), you could actually make a number of projects out of them, by using their analogue mode.
E.g. A set of hex inverters (A), configured to be a radio (which was in Electronics magazines of that time era). Using the analogue mode as amplifiers.
(I could be mis-remembering, and maybe it was the buffers, non-inverters, I can't remember, too long ago).

[bd139]

This reminds me of when I was doing A level tech many many years ago here. My friend was sitting next to me and suddenly there was smoke. Lots of it. Came from a 555. I don’t know how he had done it but it’s amazing how much magic smoke there is in a 555.

About ten years ago I came across a whole bunch of IC tubes, chucked out from local college, twenty of which contained various 555 derivatives. Could I get that much smoke out? Hell no. Just a few wisps. Disappointed. Sent about 15 ICs to their grave trying to find out how he did it.

[GK]

A latch-up can do quite some damage to a chip

Yes, the scene was totally representative of reality.

[Kleinstein]

The smoke and flames in the video look more like a battery of old tantalum cap going off all the way, or a little more.  Those little bastards can sometimes burn a hole right through an FR4 board. So maybe 100 tantalum caps to get the fireworks as shown. Normally one would consider a mixture of Ta and MnO2 powder a dangerous combination. So there is quite some energy stored in those little caps.

[Cyberdragon]

Everytime stuff (vehicals or buildings) gets damaged in a movie random stuff always shoots sparks and flames (using little charges that Bigclivedotcom has disected and even done skits with, or they're cheap and animated). But it's always out of wierd places like consoles behind screens or buttons, random walls or ceilings, or wires fall off the ceiling and spark. Wouldn't damage be localized or maybe reach up to the nearest fuse/breaker with the controls protected? Or has anyone actually seen protection circuits go nuclear and result in movie style fireworks?

[MK14]

At around 8:50, things get a tiny bit smokey.

[wraper]

Latchup is very possible.
The old/original CD4011AE, A = unprotected inputs (i.e. lacking ESD protection diodes, if I remember correctly)

CD4000A series do have ESD protection and are not original series. Original series are CD4000 without suffix, they are slower and accept lower max voltage but even those do have ESD protection diodes.

if I remember correctly

You don't.

[MK14]

Latchup is very possible.
The old/original CD4011AE, A = unprotected inputs (i.e. lacking ESD protection diodes, if I remember correctly)

CD4000A series do have ESD protection and are not original series. Original series are CD4000 without suffix, they are slower and accept lower max voltage but even those do have ESD protection diodes.

if I remember correctly

You don't.

You're right, I've got mixed up about it.

Internet searches, seem to indicate that the 4000A series was still a fairly old version of the CMOS logic, and had a number of weaknesses, which were resolved by moving to the newer/better 4000B series of CMOS logic.

E.g. http://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/understanding_digital_logic_ics_part_4

THE ‘4000A’-SERIES OF ICS
The initial 1972 range of digital ICs was known as the ‘4000A’ series; it used the basic type of CMOS inverter shown in Figure 1, but incorporated extensive diode-resistor ‘clamping’ networks to protect its MOSFETs against damage from static charges, etc. Thus, a complete A-series inverter stage took the basic form shown in Figure 3.

Commercial testing of the early A-series range of CMOS devices quickly revealed a number of design problems.

Hence the move to 4000B, which was what was probably confusing me.

I vaguely remember, that although the early devices, claimed to have ESD protection, it didn't work very well, until later series came out.
But I can't remember if that was 4000A or 4000B series CMOS, I was thinking of (with somewhat working ESD protection), sorry.

[MK14]

What I was really trying to refer to was, making a radio out of early 4000 CMOS logic, using its "analogue" mode.

E.g.



From this old thread:

http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=247725

Post subject: Re: Electronic Experts - Need Advice on CMOS CD4066BPostPosted: Apr Wed 02, 2014 4:13 pm
Member

Joined: May Tue 30, 2006 4:46 pm
Posts: 9424
Location: Santa Rosa, CA   
Years ago, I bought a Dick Smith crystal set at the Wellington, NZ store.

This simple circuit uses a CD4007 as a chain of audio amplifiers:

Image

The stages shown as inverters are really just single transistors.

A novel use of "logic" but it works!

Rich

Ironically, someone else, from 2002, also can't quite remember about the "unbuffered" CMOS logic things.

My vague recollection is when the 4000 series cmos came out in the 70s there were some unbuffered types.... The logic inverters of those could be used to make amplifiers by putting a resistor between the input and output so that it would bias itself at 1/2 the supply rail.

I wonder if this is not a 4066B but a earlier version. Quick search on this didn't turn up anything.

But, there is or was also a 4016 switch that is not buffered. Could this be that instead?

Someplace I have a copy Don Lancaster's "CMOS Cookbook" from the late 70s that talks about this sort of stuff.

[wraper]

4000B series have unbuffered parts as well. http://www.ti.com/lit/an/scha004/scha004.pdf They have 4000UB suffix, you can but them easily: https://eu.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=CD4001UB

[MK14]

4000B series have unbuffered parts as well. http://www.ti.com/lit/an/scha004/scha004.pdf They have 4000UB suffix, you can but them easily: https://eu.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=CD4001UB

I'd maybe have to try it, to find out (4000 vs A vs B types). But I'm NOT really too bothered at the moment, so won't be progressing it, now. But MAYBE in the future ?

You seem to be talking about the "digital" usage ones. Fair enough.

But what I was really referring to, was using them as "analogue devices". To make radios (amplifiers) and things. I.e. linear mode.

It goes OUTSIDE what the datasheet mentions/intends, I know. It comes from electronics magazine circuits, from a very long time ago (1970s/1980s).

I suspect (but would have to try it to be certain), but it needs the older, original 4000 or 4000A circuitry, to work well/best.
The 4000B, unbuffered or buffered, would not be so good, and/or would NOT work in that mode of operation (see link in earlier post, from nuts&volts). Since their design seems to have been improved, which removes that capability.

As regards static/ESD damage.
I can't remember if it was the 4000 or 4000A series (my best guess is it was 4000A's, because I seem to remember wanting the fully unprotected 4000 series (but that could be anytime from just about first availability to much, much later), but they were largely unavailable, then, even though we are talking about when 4000 CMOS were first or soon available to the general public, give or take a number of years, as I don't like to mention my exact age).

But, they would be very easily destroyed in my hands (NOT intending to break them on purpose, just with normal usage). Tending to not last very long, on bread boards. Supply voltage too big, static electricity and maybe input voltages, outside of the supply rails, were all suspects.

[Kleinstein]

Everytime stuff (vehicals or buildings) gets damaged in a movie random stuff always shoots sparks and flames (using little charges that Bigclivedotcom has disected and even done skits with, or they're cheap and animated). But it's always out of wierd places like consoles behind screens or buttons, random walls or ceilings, or wires fall off the ceiling and spark. Wouldn't damage be localized or maybe reach up to the nearest fuse/breaker with the controls protected? Or has anyone actually seen protection circuits go nuclear and result in movie style fireworks?

I have seen a case where the mains fuse (actually 2) failed to do it's job. So a simple short from an blown light bulb did some damage to the wiring and the switch.  So a 16 A LS switch failed and the 32 A or 50 A fuse and the next level fuse at some 100 or 150 A blew. Even just the plain NYM cables (3x1.5) turn brown from the outside. The fuse panel was surprisingly intact - just the one LS.

Part of the problem was that the outlet and fuse panel was very close to the distribution transformer (only some 4 m) and thus very low impedance - so more like an area you want CAT 4 tools.

[GK]

What I was really trying to refer to was, making a radio out of early 4000 CMOS logic, using its "analogue" mode.

E.g.

I recognised that schematic straight away, because I built it ~30 years ago. It was a Dick Smith kit from Smith's Funway into Electronics, Vol 2. The only thing I ever managed to tune in on it was the local AM radio broadcast station.

[MK14]

I recognise that schematic straight away, because I built it ~30 years ago. It was a Dick Smith kit from Smith's Funway into Electronics, Vol 2. The only thing I ever managed to tune in on it was the local AM radio broadcast station.

Did you use an original CD4007, or a later CD4007A or even CD4007B version ?
(Not remembering the answer now, is fine).

It won't surprise me, if such circuits are a very bad way of making such circuits. But, I'm interested, in using "funny" techniques, whereby a standard digital logic device, is used to make a radio.

I use to use ZN414 based, radio circuits. But with limited results (not brilliant), as far as I can remember.
But the fact that you can use an IC radio chip, in an apparent, standard small transistor like package, was interesting as well.
Plus doing the IC with only three legs, is cool as well. The final icing on the cake, is that it is happy to run on only 1.5 Volts. So a single AA/AAA battery, is an extra fun factor to it (ZN414), as well.

[wraper]

4000B series have unbuffered parts as well. http://www.ti.com/lit/an/scha004/scha004.pdf They have 4000UB suffix, you can but them easily: https://eu.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=CD4001UB

I'd maybe have to try it, to find out (4000 vs A vs B types). But I'm NOT really too bothered at the moment, so won't be progressing it, now. But MAYBE in the future ?

You seem to be talking about the "digital" usage ones. Fair enough.

But what I was really referring to, was using them as "analogue devices". To make radios (amplifiers) and things. I.e. linear mode.

You certainly can get CD4000UB to operate in "linear" mode.

[bd139]

4000 series is cool. Lots of "unspecified uses" for it. Thandar had some good ones. Front ends of DMM's using unbuffered 4000 series. Worth looking at the timebase on the SC110 scope as well - that had one as the sweep gen differential amplifier: https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/Other%20Inventions/Other%20Electronics%20Products/Thandar%20SC110A%20Oscilloscope%20Service.pdf (page 5)

Then there's Bob Pease on it: https://www.electronicdesign.com/analog/whats-all-cd4007-stuff-anyhow

[MK14]

4000 series is cool. Lots of "unspecified uses" for it. Thandar had some good ones. Front ends of DMM's using unbuffered 4000 series. Worth looking at the timebase on the SC110 scope as well - that had one as the sweep gen differential amplifier: https://k1.spdns.de/Vintage/Sinclair/Other%20Inventions/Other%20Electronics%20Products/Thandar%20SC110A%20Oscilloscope%20Service.pdf (page 5)

Then there's Bob Pease on it: https://www.electronicdesign.com/analog/whats-all-cd4007-stuff-anyhow

Thanks, that is VERY interesting!

I've enjoyed reading the Bob Pease, article. He had some very interesting comments to make about it.

The scope schematics is interesting as well. The low end Hitachi crt oscilloscope(s), used a number of 4000 series chips, in their 20 MHz scopes. Which surprised me, when I was trying to repair one.
They were especially used in its timebase, alt/chop modes and sweep start/running/stopped modes and stuff.
Probably to make the 1KHz prob cal output as well. 4011 Nand gate oscillators, if I remember correctly.

Since it was an ancient, supposedly all analogue scope, I was surprised to see the 4000 series chips.