General > General Technical Chat
Self driving liability
nctnico:
--- Quote from: coppice on April 23, 2022, 12:34:28 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on April 22, 2022, 04:18:19 pm ---You forget the third case: speed limits can be changed quickly and regulary (think about road works which can also move). Also on many roads there are dynamic speed limits depending on congestion levels. All in all it is very easy to miss a sign that tells the speed limit has changed and a database doesn't help. When using Google maps it happens very often that it indicates the wrong speed limit while there are fixed signs on a highway.
Road works are particulary nasty because the signs aren't always clear. In France for example there isn't always sign that indicates the end of the road works. You just have to deduce that from the section marked with orange cones ending. Another example are parallel roads with different speed limits. Even for a human it is easy to get confused.
The bottom line is: a self driving car will be getting speeding tickets even though the intention is not to exceed the speed limit.
--- End quote ---
Most new cars now read traffic signs. They aren't always that reliable, but if a car is going to self drive, rather than just assist the driver, it had better be able to reliably read those signs. If it can't even read something as predicable as traffic signs, how is it going to detect and react properly to less well structured things happening around it?
--- End quote ---
You didn't get my point: speed limit signs aren't always obvious which means that a self driving car will get a speeding ticket every now and then. With the 'driver' not being liable while the self driving system is on, who is going to pay for the ticket given the proposed laws in the first post?
Debating how well or not a self driving car can read signs is not relevant at all in this discussion because the underlying assumption is that self driving cars are certified / road legal.
chickenHeadKnob:
OK, what insurance company pays for this one:
Tesla which is being "smart summoned" crashes into private jet on Earth day. LoL
wilfred:
--- Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on April 23, 2022, 06:03:44 am ---OK, what insurance company pays for this one:
--- End quote ---
No insurance company will ever be paying. It will be in the premium car owners pay. It isn't simple semantics. That is the way to think about it. Similarly with arguments that suggest anyone (other than the car owner and/or driver) or any corporation will ever be paying speeding tickets or any other driving related liability arising from a self driving system. The world cannot afford the cost of the lawsuits.
Someone will have to accept the responsibility as the "driver" just like we do now when we turn the key. There is no way the legal implications will be resolved before the automation firmware is perfected (which I claim will never happen). Self driving cars on public roads is a Utopian dream that will never materialise. I can accept automated trains, mining trucks and farm tractors and maybe even excavators but none of those operate on public roads.
If self driving cars ever truly materialise they will not have a steering wheel and brake pedals. If they do then that is an admission they are imperfect and require human override.
I claim it is a fallacy, a myth, to think self driving cars are a solution to crowded roads or bad driving or poorly designed cities over dependence on cars.
chickenHeadKnob:
--- Quote from: wilfred on April 23, 2022, 06:28:00 am ---
--- Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on April 23, 2022, 06:03:44 am ---OK, what insurance company pays for this one:
--- End quote ---
No insurance company will ever be paying. It will be in the premium car owners pay. It isn't simple semantics. That is the way to think about it. Similarly with arguments that suggest anyone (other than the car owner and/or driver) or any corporation will ever be paying speeding tickets or any other driving related liability arising from a self driving system. The world cannot afford the cost of the lawsuits.
--snip--
--- End quote ---
Good point. I have always looked at property crime as an act of indirect enslavement, but never extended that logic to the moral hazard of deferred corporate negligence.
By enslavement I mean that a car thief who steals a car across town is enslaving me through the mechanism of increased premiums.
Ed.Kloonk:
Have a look how many times the nose landing gear system fails in the same aircraft verses how many times and the reasons they try and blame the pilots.
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