Selling project ideas

[PICmonster]

I am looking for advice on where and how one could sell project ideas without the said idea being stolen before one is paid.

Basically I have some ideas and think there are potentially profitable but I do not have the finance for copyright or patents to protect my idea etc. Is there any way to disclose my ideas in relative safety, I am guessing not as i come down to trust, and where profit is involved trust often takes a back seat in my experience.

[Stiege]

I am looking for advice on where and how one could sell project ideas without the said idea being stolen before one is paid.

The safest way is to never design or build it, just don't talk about it. Because as soon as you do it will be copied.

Basically I have some ideas and think there are potentially profitable but I do not have the finance for copyright or patents to protect my idea etc. Is there any way to disclose my ideas in relative safety, I am guessing not as i come down to trust, and where profit is involved trust often takes a back seat in my experience.

Welcome to the world of electronic engineering, where patents are meaningless even if you could afford them.

[EEVblog]

I am looking for advice on where and how one could sell project ideas without the said idea being stolen before one is paid.

You can't. Ideas are essentially worthless, only a fool pays for ideas.
And I'm willing to bet they aren't as original as you might think.

Basically I have some ideas and think there are potentially profitable but I do not have the finance for copyright or patents to protect my idea etc.

Copyright is automatic, it does not cost anything.
Patents do not "protect" your idea, they simply give you a legal avenue to sue someone if they steal it. And to do that costs a few million, minimum.

Is there any way to disclose my ideas in relative safety, I am guessing not as i come down to trust, and where profit is involved trust often takes a back seat in my experience.

Correct.

Dave.

[vk3yedotcom]

PICmonster, watch this

[ftransform]

Wow, I think hiring mafia contract killers would be cheaper then patent litigation.

Should I expect a yakuza crew if I decide to sell uCurrent knockoffs from my basement Mr. Jones?

[Pat Pending]

I would not worry about your ideas being stolen.

It takes a lot of determination and effort to make it from the idea board to a sell-able product.

[ftransform]

I'm sure there are some REALLY good ideas though, there always is a few, out of 8 billion people that might be worth protecting!

[PICmonster]

Thanks for all your inputs, its pretty much as I thought. The bottom line is there is no real protection unless you have millions as Dave says to pursue any patent breach legally.

I design electronics for a living and more than capable of designing this, so I guess I just try to get as many sold through ebay before the Chinese and everyone else copies it.

Whether it is a unique idea or not, I guess that of course someone will have been down the same road I have taken before, but there arent any out there.

Now that could be because there is little demand for it or because others have not been successful in designing OR marketing and selling the product.

Thanks again everyone.

[ftransform]

Thanks for all your inputs, its pretty much as I thought. The bottom line is there is no real protection unless you have millions as Dave says to pursue any patent breach legally.

I design electronics for a living and more than capable of designing this, so I guess I just try to get as many sold through ebay before the Chinese and everyone else copies it.

Whether it is a unique idea or not, I guess that of course someone will have been down the same road I have taken before, but there arent any out there.

Now that could be because there is little demand for it or because others have not been successful in designing OR marketing and selling the product.

Thanks again everyone.

Just build it with precise tolerances so Chinese parts don't work with it! They might be able to figure out your 500 pin FPGA quickly but if your design requires a 1ppm resistor the Chinese will NEVER replicate it. 

[Smokey]

There are some super smart people on this board.  I'm sure we can help you out. 
Go ahead and tell us your great idea and we'll let you know the best way to protect it.  Don't worry, we won't tell anyone.

[Marco]

Ideas are a dime a dozen ... that said :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

Unless the idea is actually reduced to practice I give you little chance of selling it and a high chance that your idea won't work any way.

[Corporate666]

Regarding NDA's... many (if not most) companies will not sign one, period.

Think about it - there's nothing in it for me, and lots of potential negatives.  Let's say you have an idea for an automotive widget and come to me and I sign an NDA.  You tell me about your idea and I don't think it's any good.  Then, 3 months later you see someone else making it and you assume I told your idea to someone else.  Now I potentially have to defend myself just because I gave you time to listen to your idea.  Or let's say you tell me and I say "we're already working on something just like that".  But you think I'm lying and go to see a lawyer. 

Either way, signing an NDA is making a commitment and an agreement, which opens me up to liability.  So if I own a multi-million dollar business, why would I risk that just to hear an idea?  The answer is - I wouldn't.  The only potential upside for me would be if your idea is really great, AND you are willing to sell it to me for a low price, AND I have the time to further/market your idea.  Most companies aren't sitting around wishing they had more stuff to do... they are wishing they had more time and more resources to implement the dozens of ideas they already have.

I don't mean to sound down on the inventor... that's how I started, but it's a very hard road to hoe... and the above description is why ideas aren't worth much, and why people usually won't sign an NDA.  There's just nothing in it for them.  It's the same as me knocking on your door and saying "I have an idea and I want you to be my partner... you supply all the money, time and effort, and I will sit back and collect a chunk of the money"

[8086]

The people who are most protective of their ideas are often the ones who are unoriginal or just plain ridiculous.

If it's a good idea, get on with it. If you're not sure enough to actually do it, it's probably not a good idea.

[Bored@Work]

Ideas are a dime a dozen ... that said :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

Unless the idea is actually reduced to practice I give you little chance of selling it and a high chance that your idea won't work any way.

NDAs work reasonable well between honest people. But things would also work between them without an NDA. If push comes to shove you have the same problem with an NDA as with other contacts. How to prove a breach of the contract? Your idea suddenly appearing in the open isn't a good prove.

I don't happen to see many NDAs these days. Maybe they got out of fashion. When I see one it is typically from some very large companies. Or corporate lawyer then pulls out our own NDA form. It is a bit of dick waving. Who has the toughest ND clauses.

And I seem to remember that at the high of the New Economy even the most honest venture capitalists started to refuse to sign NDAs. They simply had the problem to remember all the NDAs they signed, what they weren't allowed to talk about  and to keep business ideas separate.

[mikeselectricstuff]

The idea is only maybe 10% of the work in making something useful. If you think you have something, just build it & the market will tell you how useful it is. 

[PICmonster]

Ideas are a dime a dozen ... that said :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

Unless the idea is actually reduced to practice I give you little chance of selling it and a high chance that your idea won't work any way.

The design of the product is a done deal and works perfectly, so there is no question of it not working as designed its just a question of it selling, NDA's are not worth the paper they are written on.

[8086]

If it's done and works why don't you just make some and sell them?

[Bored@Work]

If it's done and works why don't you just make some and sell them?

Look at one of his other recent postings where he rants about an email conspiracy, shows a misunderstanding of the term privacy and in general shows a lack of product knowledge.

If you then take his sudden progression in this thread from selling an idea to suddenly having a product to sell into account you might get an idea what the real problem here is.

[EEVblog]

I'm sure there are some REALLY good ideas though, there always is a few, out of 8 billion people that might be worth protecting!

Sure, but 7,999,999,000 of them are crap 
I get emails all the time with wonderful product ideas that will make them (and me if I help them) rich.
But I am able to shoot down every one of them in the first email, every time.
It's either already been done, or hasn't got a viable enough market.

Dave.

[Stiege]

I'm sure there are some REALLY good ideas though, there always is a few, out of 8 billion people that might be worth protecting!

Sure, but 7,999,999,000 of them are crap 
I get emails all the time with wonderful product ideas that will make them (and me if I help them) rich.
But I am able to shoot down every one of them in the first email, every time.
It's either already been done, or hasn't got a viable enough market.

Dave.

Wow, those emails aren't filtered somehow? Expect some more soon!

[EEVblog]

Wow, those emails aren't filtered somehow? Expect some more soon!

No, these aren't spammers, they are people who have deliberately found and targeted me because of my public electronics and product design knowledge.
They usually see me as someone "who will intuitively understand" how wonderful their product idea is 

Dave.

[Stiege]

No, these aren't spammers, they are people who have deliberately found and targeted me because of my public electronics and product design knowledge.
They usually see me as someone "who will intuitively understand" how wonderful their product idea is 

Dave.

Still, I'd imagine you would get a heck of a lot of those, enough to consider blocking some phrases like "great new invention", "lots of money", "lots of women" and the like.

[EEVblog]

Still, I'd imagine you would get a heck of a lot of those

A constant stream of them ever since my first electronics web page back in the mid-late 90's.
And even before that, by snail mail, when my address was published in the electronics mags with my articles.

Dave.

[UPI]

You guys are bringing everyone down. You can have great ideas and make lots of money with electronic designs, but not usually in mass market products.

I make my money servicing a particular piece of manufacturing equipment. As an added option to the machine, I designed (hacked together) a board that analyzes a 4 phase stepper motor drive circuit to watch for driver board failures. It is an open loop system that damages product when the driver boards fail. I have sold 80+ and am still selling a handful each month for a tidy profit on each one.

The market is too small for anyone else to care but it is making me a significant amount of dough.

Keep building shit and one day an idea will hit you and you will be prepared to capitalize on it.

[Stiege]

Keep building shit and one day an idea will hit you and you will be prepared to capitalize on it.

Brilliant. And with all the practice you had building useless stuff it might just work too!

[EEVblog]

You guys are bringing everyone down.

No, just being practical. Ideas on their own are actually worthless, and that's a well proven fact in most cases.
The OP asked if it was possible to sell his idea, the answer is almost certainly no, without even knowing what it is.

You can have great ideas and make lots of money with electronic designs, but not usually in mass market products.

Sure, no one would deny that.

BTW, the OP has actually told me what the idea is privately (I guess he thinks I'm trustworthy  ), and well, I don't think anyone is about to go out and steal it and get rich. As predicted, IMO:
a) it's not really original, very simple and obvious (for those with the need), and the solution can be hacked together with off-the-shelf modules already.
b) it has very limited niche appeal
c) it has the usual problems with the actual physical implementation of it, and big differences in any sort of consumer installation and need.

It's more like something you'd see on Hack-A-Day, and you'd get more excited about that he used a toaster oven to solder the boards or whatever, than about the actual idea.
Sorry, just being honest.

Dave.

[8086]

You guys are bringing everyone down.

Down to earth, yes. But that's where you should be already.

No surprises in Dave's post above.

[firewalker]

A constant stream of them ever since my first electronics web page back in the mid-late 90's.
And even before that, by snail mail, when my address was published in the electronics mags with my articles.

Dave.

Anything worth mentioning (funny/crazy etc)?

Alexander.

[EEVblog]

Anything worth mentioning (funny/crazy etc)?

Nothing springs to mind. It was 15+ years ago now.
Was harder to instantly dismiss back then too, as it was a different world pre-internet. No 5 minute googling to research the whole planet and market space.

Dave.