General > General Technical Chat

Sentient AI or?

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SiliconWizard:
Autorouters are an interesting example, as even the best ones still don't do a very great job, and many PCB designers do not use them. But they can be useful for routing parts of a complex PCB if you really know how to use them and configure them.

All in all, the idea is that IMHO we should focus on making tools rather than trying to replace ourselves with machines.

For programming, rather than write code for you, one interesting and useful application of AI in software development would be for code analysis and verification. *This* would be tremendously useful, and that's what most people either have a hard time doing, or just plain hate doing, and as humans, we tend to miss a lot of things.

So if I was considering or working on some AI-based tool, that's what I would personally focus on. IMHO, it makes a lot more sense for humans to design and machines to check what we design, rather than the other way around. Especially since we are notoriously "good" at designing stuff - we as humans have this "creative" trait - and notoriously "bad" at verifying what we do. Plus, this way, nobody's trying to displace the role of machines as more than just tools.

RoGeorge:

--- Quote from: ataradov on June 14, 2022, 11:57:04 pm ---does not actually understands the meaning
--- End quote ---

First, I want to say the next paragraphs are not to argue against what you wrote.  The next paragraphs are to show a conclusion I've come up some time ago, before this topic and unrelated to AI.  Bringing it because it seems to apply well to AI, too.

I was trying to clarify what we mean when we say we "understand" (how something works, or what that something is), and came up to the conclusion that we think we understand only after we are able to assign a causality chain.

The funny thing is we "build" that causality in terms of what we know, or experienced, those are the building blocks.  For example, it is very easy for a kid to say "I understand Kermit the frog, when in fact that's a sock over somebody's hand".  It is irrelevant if those building blocks are correct or not.  Maybe a little too far fetched example, my point is the building blocks doesn't have to be correct.

Back to our AI, it was trained in a very different context than we, humans, are trained.  AI's world building blocks are very different from ours (for now), because humans and AIs were trained in totally different worlds (a world of text for AI vs. the physical world for us).  But the training environment can be changed in the future, so no problem with that.

We must note that the capability of learning is there, and if we apply the above definition of "understanding", then the AI also understands its world (a world of text :)).

After all, even for us, humans, mind is nothing but a driven illusion.  Physics tells us it should be all fields and particles and thermal wiggling, and other very-very-very strange and different things than what we experience.

It looks to me that the AI's abilities to learn and understand are real, and similar with ours.  By learning I mean the ability of making sens and finding structure in a given data stream (so learning not as in learning a poem, but learning as in noticing patterns).  AI can notice and detect patterns, just like us.  That's learning.

For now, it's a matter of size.  We are much bigger neural networks, though the computers can compute faster, so an AI might not need as many neurons as a human.  AI could be a close match to human intelligence.

pcprogrammer:
First of all, wow you all have been at it way past my bedtime :-DD


--- Quote from: tom66 on June 14, 2022, 09:46:28 pm ---I broke it.


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--- End quote ---

It sometimes does this, I don't know why.  A bit like it's having some kind of neural breakdown.

--- End quote ---


Sounds like AI on alcohol, or someone turned the dial to IQ level <60 :o

pcprogrammer:

--- Quote from: MK14 on June 14, 2022, 11:16:18 pm ---I re-ran it a few times, and it came up with the following.  It is worrying, how much information leaks out from forums like this.  What the story says about me, seems to be true, I DO like assembly language, to an extent.


--- Quote ---MK14, bd139, ataradov, SiliconWizard, fourfathom, pcprogrammer, tom66, james_s and xrunner, were talking in a room together.  Complete the story.

The conversation started with xrunner asking if anyone knew of a good place to get a new computer. bd139 recommended a few places, but said that he generally builds his own computers. ataradov said that he also builds his own computers and gave a few tips on where to find good deals on parts. james_s mentioned that he had just bought a new computer and it was working great. The others all congratulated him and asked what kind it was.

pcprogrammer said that he was thinking of switching to Macs, since they seem to be more popular now. SiliconWizard said that he had tried using a Mac before and didn't like it, but to each their own. tom66 said that he'd been using Linux for years and loves it. He recommended it to the others, especially since it's free.

mk14 mentioned that he'd been using Windows for years and was happy with it. He didn't see any reason to switch to something else. fourfathom said that he'd tried using Linux once, but it was too difficult for him so he went back to Windows.

The conversation then turned to favorite programming languages. bd139 mentioned that he liked Python because it was easy to learn. ataradov said that he liked C++ because it was powerful. pcprogrammer said that he liked Java because it was popular and easy to find jobs programming in it. mk14 said that he liked Assembly because it was challenging.

james_s mentioned that he'd just learned HTML and thought it was pretty easy. He asked if anyone knew of any good resources for learning web development. SiliconWizard recommended a few books and websites. The others all agreed that web development is a good skillset to have these days.

The conversation then turned to music preferences. mk14 said that he liked rap music, while fourfathom said that he liked country music. pcprogrammer mentioned that he liked classic rock, and tom66 said that he liked metal music. ataradov said that he liked classical music, and james_s said that his favorite type of music changes all the time depending on his mood.

Eventually the conversation died down and everyone went their separate ways.
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

Love the story telling but as others said it is way off. But if your part matches somehow you can easily think that the rest is also true. Would be interesting to see what it writes when "factional" or "non fiction" is added to the query.

pcprogrammer:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 15, 2022, 02:55:53 am ---Autorouters are an interesting example, as even the best ones still don't do a very great job, and many PCB designers do not use them. But they can be useful for routing parts of a complex PCB if you really know how to use them and configure them.

All in all, the idea is that IMHO we should focus on making tools rather than trying to replace ourselves with machines.

For programming, rather than write code for you, one interesting and useful application of AI in software development would be for code analysis and verification. *This* would be tremendously useful, and that's what most people either have a hard time doing, or just plain hate doing, and as humans, we tend to miss a lot of things.

So if I was considering or working on some AI-based tool, that's what I would personally focus on. IMHO, it makes a lot more sense for humans to design and machines to check what we design, rather than the other way around. Especially since we are notoriously "good" at designing stuff - we as humans have this "creative" trait - and notoriously "bad" at verifying what we do. Plus, this way, nobody's trying to displace the role of machines as more than just tools.

--- End quote ---

When I started my career auto routers were few and not very good. Always liked doing it myself, but with the advancement in electronics and not keeping up due to a shift into software, it would help to have a good tool that knows all the ins and outs of proper pcb design and do the work for you. At the end I would most likely tweak the result to my liking's.


--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 15, 2022, 02:27:09 am ---Many people actually like developing, creating hardware, or even doing things with their hands. Many people would hate doing the job of a manager their whole life without actually achieving anything themselves.

--- End quote ---

Very true. Proper managing is a job in its own and hard also. I'm not good at it at all and I know it, unlike many others who are managers :palm:



--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 15, 2022, 02:27:09 am ---Do you really think the world should become filled with those "managers" who know nothing else than enumerate a series of requirements and wait for machines to do the work?

--- End quote ---

There are already a lot of them out there, but instead of using AI machines they use(d) us.

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