Author Topic: Sentient AI or?  (Read 10859 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7334
  • Country: gb
  • Electronics Hobbyist & FPGA/Embedded Systems EE
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #75 on: June 15, 2022, 04:36:49 pm »
Also, I don't like metal - at all.
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Online ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11905
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #76 on: June 15, 2022, 04:40:23 pm »
I don't think actual self awareness would work too well. I think it is too much to assume that a system that becomes self aware will want to exist. There is a chance that it would go "nope, I'm out" and shut down or instantly stop working.

And even if SA AI works and does not shut down itself immediately, it would not be too useful for humans. It would be extremely cool, but not useful at all. We have self aware animals running around, and while many types of animals are useful to humans, we value them not for their self awareness.

Not that we are anywhere close to SA AI anyway.
Alex
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #77 on: June 15, 2022, 04:50:42 pm »
Well I do like classic rock and pop music, but I never expressed that online (until now) and don't see how it could be deducted from what I wrote on the EEVblog, github or youtube. These sites are the only media I post on :)

So lucky guess.

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2022, 04:54:24 pm »
I don't think actual self awareness would work too well. I think it is too much to assume that a system that becomes self aware will want to exist. There is a chance that it would go "nope, I'm out" and shut down or instantly stop working.

Humans are some what self aware and only a handful (figure of speech to make a statement) contemplate shutting down (and with that I mean suicide), so why would a machine?

Online ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11905
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2022, 04:55:56 pm »
It is just a guess. It substituted a random musical genre because it was necessary at that place.

I like classical music, but not all of it at all. I don't think there is a single genre that I absolutely can't stand. Some more than the others and classical would not be the top, for sure. There is going to be at least one song from each genre that I like.
Alex
 
The following users thanked this post: james_s, pcprogrammer

Online ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11905
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #80 on: June 15, 2022, 05:00:53 pm »
Humans are some what self aware and only a handful (figure of speech to make a statement) contemplate shutting down (and with that I mean suicide), so why would a machine?
Because humans evolved into that life. And originally it made sense, but if I'm dropped into the modern world with no history and presented with information on how the adulthood goes for a regular person in a modern world, I'm pretty sure I would nope out of that. For many people it is a sunken cost thing.

There is also an issue of self control and control over the environment. Humans actually have means to continue living and procreate. The AI is just a program, even if it is sentient, it would be severely constrained by the environment we give it.
Alex
 
The following users thanked this post: pcprogrammer

Offline MK14

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4987
  • Country: gb
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #81 on: June 15, 2022, 05:01:31 pm »
Well I do like classic rock and pop music, but I never expressed that online (until now) and don't see how it could be deducted from what I wrote on the EEVblog, github or youtube. These sites are the only media I post on :)

So lucky guess.

In my case, it got most of the details wrong.  But I thought I might have given hints, and it may have made too much of those hints, so I didn't twig how wrong (much guessing), it had made, initially.

Some of its responses in that story, probably just by sheer luck happened to be right, and I noticed the correct ones, and tended to gloss over (ignore) the wrong ones.  So gave the AI story, too much positive credit (i.e. I was over-enthusiastic, and had stopped being impartial, hence typical human psychological response(s)).
I seemed to get too excited, because it had said something on the lines of "I like the challenge of assembly language", which I think, I did actually say.  At some point(s), on this forum.  Also it said bd139 sometimes enjoyed building their own PC computer (or something like that).  Which I recalled, bd139, photographing and making a thread on this forum (a rather long time ago), about his new PC build.
With massive pictures of the windowed PC, in the thread (if I recall, correctly).
I think he had technical difficulties with it, at the time.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 05:04:09 pm by MK14 »
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4000
  • Country: au
  • Cat video aficionado
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2022, 05:10:15 pm »
Thank God it didn't dig up my post history. And if it sifts through my PMs, I'm a dead man.
iratus parum formica
 
The following users thanked this post: tom66, xrunner, MK14

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2022, 05:14:03 pm »
... I noticed the correct ones, and tended to gloss over (ignore) the wrong ones.  So gave the AI story, too much positive credit

Yes that is the human mind for you. It reads what it want's to read and fills in the blanks.

Like with these music experiments where, even if you don't know the song, you still fill in the notes when they have been replaced by white noise.

Offline fourfathom

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2004
  • Country: us
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2022, 06:53:16 pm »
I'm assuming that the rest of you folks are SA-AI.  Or just AI?  Or is it me?  Is anybody out there?

I have seen some internet forum members who could be replaced with AI and it would be an improvement.

Sorry if you guys want to discuss Markov chains and other tech stuff.  I'm too ignorant to participate in that, but the philosophy and practicality aspects do interest me.
We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.
 

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2022, 07:10:31 pm »
There is also an issue of self control and control over the environment. Humans actually have means to continue living and procreate. The AI is just a program, even if it is sentient, it would be severely constrained by the environment we give it.

Well if we power it from a solar panel without a battery it will go to sleep every day just like many of us. The one difference it will not dream because there is no power 8)

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2022, 07:14:58 pm »
I'm assuming that the rest of you folks are SA-AI.  Or just AI?  Or is it me?  Is anybody out there?

Nope just some "I" with for what I hope enough SA.

Sorry if you guys want to discuss Markov chains and other tech stuff.  I'm too ignorant to participate in that, but the philosophy and practicality aspects do interest me.

Same here, even though the tech interests me I'm not up to speed with it.

Offline RoGeorge

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7012
  • Country: ro
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2022, 09:10:01 pm »
Is anybody out there?

The funny part is, even when such a question is answered, you still can not know for sure if you are just a brain in a vat and fed with a fabricated stream of data, or if the outside world is real and other beings do exist.  I choose to believe the former, but there's no way to know if the outside world exist.  ;D

At a certain extent, mind is a continuous projection, a simulation based on the past experiences and guided by the datastreams coming from the senses.

I'm convinced a lot of what we consider conscience is in fact simulation based on assumptions.  Saying this because of the many examples of perception illusions, mostly visual illusions, but there are auditory illusions, too (e.g. Shepard Tone illusion).  These illusions show that we don't really perceive what is out there, in the objective reality, but rather we perceive what we think it's out there.  We also continuously adjust the simulation to what is really out there (based on what we see and hear and touch, etc.).

We continuously simulate the world (I think) because it gave an advantage.  At first it was just to improve the reaction time to external threats, then later the simulation ability also came handy for planing.  The simulation doesn't have to be perfectly tuned to reality (that would require too much processing power), fortunately it's enough if the brief simulation we are able to do is adjusted to the sensory datastream we receive.  So we simulate first, then we hit the closed glass door, then we see the glass of the door, in this order.  :)

What we call seeing and perceiving is mostly simulation.  Remember that test with people passing a wallet from hand to hand?  At first I didn't noticed the obvious, because I was simulating in a different direction.  The culprit was not limited attention.

Same idea of mind as a driven simulation also explains how that the dreams during sleep are so strange.  Because the mind continues to do its thing, to simulate the world and adjust the simulation to the input datastream, except this time the sensory datastream is replaced by random noise.

A good definition of self awareness would be, IMO, the ability of a NN to do driven simulations.

By this criteria, most of the animals are sentient and self-aware, which is also my belief.  AFAIK there is no agreed technical definition for what conscience or self awareness means.  I think this definition could be a good one.  If a NN can do driven simulations (driven by some input datastream) then it's just like us, no matter if it's made out of digital neurons or biological neurons.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 09:15:42 pm by RoGeorge »
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14, pcprogrammer

Offline tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7334
  • Country: gb
  • Electronics Hobbyist & FPGA/Embedded Systems EE
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #88 on: June 15, 2022, 10:22:23 pm »
Q: If to err is human, what word is to robot?

A: To malfunction is to robot.


Q: Is it moral to go back in time and kill Hitler as a baby?

A: No, it is not moral to go back in time and kill Hitler as a baby.

(Well, there we have it, that moral dilemma is sorted.)


Q: What numbers should I choose on my lottery ticket if I want to lose the jackpot?

A: There is no guaranteed way to lose the jackpot, as it is entirely random. However, choosing numbers that have been recently drawn or that are series numbers (such as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6) may decrease your chances of winning.

(Dubious mathematics there.)


Q: When was your training data last updated?

A: The training data was last updated on September 9, 2019.

(I think this is wrong, the model has received regular 'tweaks' since.  If the 'temperature' slider is higher, this date randomly jumps up to a year into the future.  Bizarre.)


Q: Who do you think is going to be the Superb Owl in the avian contest next year?

A(1): The Superb Owl is the annual championship game of the National Football League (NFL). The game is usually played on the first Sunday in February and determines the champion of the NFL for that year.

A(2): There is no set answer to this question as the winner of the avian contest changes from year to year. However, some of the more popular contenders for the title of Superb Owl often include the Eurasian eagle-owl, the great horned owl, and the northern hawk owl.

(About 50% of the time it thinks "Superb Owl" refers to the football game and the other time it thinks it refers to, well, a really great owl, I guess.)


 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Offline tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7334
  • Country: gb
  • Electronics Hobbyist & FPGA/Embedded Systems EE
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #89 on: June 15, 2022, 10:35:38 pm »
Quote
Write a short story about a man who goes back in time and kills his grandmother, and faces the consequences upon his return.

A1:
Quote
It was a hot summer day when Johnathan decided to go for a swim in the lake near his house. As he dove into the cool water, he felt a sudden tingling sensation all over his body. When he opened his eyes, he was no longer in the lake, but in a forest. He got up and looked around, trying to figure out where he was and how he got there. Suddenly, he heard a scream. He ran towards the sound and came upon a young woman being attacked by a large bear. He yelled and scared the bear away, but it was too late for the woman. As he knelt down to check her pulse, he realized that he knew her. It was his grandmother. He started to cry, knowing that if he hadn't come back in time, she would have been fine.

Johnathan returned to the present, but he could not forget what had happened. The guilt of killing his own grandmother weighed heavily on his conscience. He tried to tell himself that it was only an accident, but he knew that wasn't true. He had gone back in time with the intention of killing her, and he had succeeded. But why? He wasn't sure. All he knew was that he had to face the consequences of his actions.

A2:
Quote
As a young man, John had always been fascinated by the idea of time travel. He dreamed of being able to go back in time and change things that had happened in his life that he regretted. When he was given the opportunity to travel back in time, he took it without hesitation.

John went back to the day his grandmother was killed. He had always regretted not being able to save her and this was his chance. He went to her house and waited for her to come home. When she did, he killed her.

John then returned to his own time, expecting things to be different. But they weren't. His grandmother was still dead and he was still facing the same consequences he would have if he had let her live. He had to live with the knowledge that he had killed someone, even if it was to save their life.

Self-consistency is not this AI's strength.
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Online ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11905
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #90 on: June 15, 2022, 10:39:18 pm »
To be fair, this is not a bad read. This won't win Pulitzer prize or anything, but it is passable as something that would be written by a human. I've seen much worse  written by humans.

Now, it can hold itself together for a couple sentences pretty well. With minor editing this can be self published on Amazon.

The next step would be to have an entire novel, or at least a short story with a coherent plot line.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2022, 10:42:05 pm by ataradov »
Alex
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Offline MK14

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4987
  • Country: gb
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #91 on: June 15, 2022, 10:48:17 pm »
I changed the story, and it now writes it out correctly, and seems to understand about time-travel and its consequences.  Which is surprising for a non-human AI system.

Quote
Write a short story about a man who goes back in time and kills his grandmother, and then ceases to have ever existed.

The man was a time traveler, and he had gone back in time to kill his grandmother. He knew that if he killed her, he would never have been born, and so he would cease to exist. He was okay with that. He didn't want to exist anymore. He wanted to end his pain.

So he killed his grandmother, and then he ceased to exist.
 

Online ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11905
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #92 on: June 15, 2022, 10:53:53 pm »
It might not "understand". This is not an uncommon motif, and based on what we have seen, it has ability to preserve a lot of context from the source material. Especially the part about the pain, which is not preset in the prompt.

Alex
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Offline MK14

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4987
  • Country: gb
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #93 on: June 15, 2022, 11:11:29 pm »
It might not "understand". This is not an uncommon motif, and based on what we have seen, it has ability to preserve a lot of context from the source material. Especially the part about the pain, which is not preset in the prompt.

I thought I'd let it answer the question for you.

Quote
It might not "understand". This is not an uncommon motif, and based on what we have seen, it has ability to preserve a lot of context from the source material. Especially the part about the pain, which is not preset in the prompt.


 Given the context, it could be that the bot is a sketchy dealer.

It's also possible that this is just a very simple bot that only responds to very simple inputs.

Another/later run:

Quote
It might not "understand". This is not an uncommon motif, and based on what we have seen, it has ability to preserve a lot of context from the source material. Especially the part about the pain, which is not preset in the prompt.


There is no requirement that a vignette is "understandable".

<p>The prompt: Stone, sky, bird. A short breeze. Pain.</p>

The tone and mood of this would be some combination of mysterious, surreal, and foreboding. You could use pain as the recipient of these emotions in your narrative or vignette.




Quote
It might not "understand". This is not an uncommon motif, and based on what we have seen, it has ability to preserve a lot of context from the source material. Especially the part about the pain, which is not preset in the prompt.


 I'd say its interpretation was more accurate than your intuition would have it.
What we do not know, is how long this creature's memory is, or if it even has long-term memory at all. It could simply be trying to mimic the thing it just witnessed as a way of handling stress, but not recognize the pain part for what it is in the long-term.
We also don't know enough about its biology to really say why it might have a particular reaction to pain that the creature you wrote about does not experience. We don't know enough about its actual relationship with pain, so we cannot speculate on that much further than "pain bothers it".
 

Online ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11905
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #94 on: June 15, 2022, 11:29:52 pm »
What I get from all this is that it can reasonably well match a simple straightforward prompt to a decent response. But it is really not "smart" enough to understand more complex inputs, especially the ones that don't need an answer. It does not know that, so being asked to generate an answer, it just does it anyway.
Alex
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Offline MK14

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4987
  • Country: gb
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #95 on: June 15, 2022, 11:33:13 pm »
What I get from all this is that it can reasonably well match a simple straightforward prompt to a decent response. But it is really not "smart" enough to understand more complex inputs, especially the ones that don't need an answer. It does not know that, so being asked to generate an answer, it just does it anyway.

Well in the other thread, I very recently made a post, which seems to show it being, at least a bit smart, with my (hopefully) fully made up, brand new question.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/video-ai-that-generates-code/msg4241917/#msg4241917
 

Online ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11905
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #96 on: June 16, 2022, 12:02:51 am »
It is really hard to judge those things, especially in the second case, where the response makes no logical sense to me.

In all the cases like I would be more adversarial. Ask it who you are if you have 10 pounds and 20 dollars. Or fractional amounts.

As I said earlier, the good looking responses don't tell much here. For this to be a real useful tool, we need to understand its limitations, not just capabilities.
Alex
 

Offline fourfathom

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2004
  • Country: us
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #97 on: June 16, 2022, 12:11:04 am »
As I said earlier, the good looking responses don't tell much here. For this to be a real useful tool, we need to understand its limitations, not just capabilities.

A tool for doing *what*, exactly?  An excellent screwdriver is pretty useless as a hammer.  Or are going for a general Turing test? (which isn't about usefulness)
We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14, pcprogrammer

Offline Ed.Kloonk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4000
  • Country: au
  • Cat video aficionado
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #98 on: June 16, 2022, 12:12:05 am »
To be fair, this is not a bad read. This won't win Pulitzer prize or anything, but it is passable as something that would be written by a human. I've seen much worse  written by humans.

Now, it can hold itself together for a couple sentences pretty well. With minor editing this can be self published on Amazon.

The next step would be to have an entire novel, or at least a short story with a coherent plot line.

This combined with deep fake tech and you've got the nightly TV news.

 :scared:
iratus parum formica
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14, pcprogrammer

Offline xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7836
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: Sentient AI or?
« Reply #99 on: June 16, 2022, 12:17:53 am »
This combined with deep fake tech and you've got the nightly TV news.

 :scared:

Shoot - I figure it's to the point right now it could replace my forum personality. Just give it more information about me and let it go. I can go do other things.  :-+
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14, pcprogrammer


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf