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| Shelf life of assembled electronics |
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| james_s:
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 01, 2022, 10:23:29 pm ---Of course, the infotainment systems in these vehicles often control other things, like the HVAC, TPMS, maintenance warnings etc... And there's no common standard for those, so you'll probably lose those. --- End quote --- Which is precisely the problem I'm complaining about. Critical features of the car are integrated into these silly systems, you can't just remove them and install something else. |
| Berni:
--- Quote from: james_s on December 02, 2022, 01:49:44 am ---Which is precisely the problem I'm complaining about. Critical features of the car are integrated into these silly systems, you can't just remove them and install something else. --- End quote --- It doesn't bother me as much that car infotainment systems can't be swapped out since they have generally caught up in regard to features. If they still have a CD drive they can play MP3 CDs, they can play music from a USB flash drive, they got AUX jacks etc.. They are also getting Google car play in there so you can mirror your phone screen up onto them to use google maps for navigation. So there is a lot less reason to swap one out. As long as they are made reliable to not break and need replacement. We will see how reliable they end up, Tesla certainly was not off to a good start. However i do hate the new trend of replacing all the physical knobs with a giant touchscreen. You can't do anything anymore by blindly reaching for a knob by feel. You have to actually look all the way down to press a button that you end up missing because a bump in the road made your arm swing over to the next button. If it is illegal to use your phone while you drive, then how is it legal to put these giant touchscreens in cars. If anything using a phone is less distracting since you can hold your phone where your dash gauges would be, letting you see both the road and the screen. My car from 2013 is a bit of a in between mix. It has an infotainment system, but no touchscreen yet, so all knobs are physical and they even work while the infotainment is still booting up. So id still keep most of my other functionality without it. However the infotainment uses a mechanical hard drive for storage (You can even hear it seeking when you turn the car on) so that likely means no high density flash is needed... but is mechanical so it could wear out. Not sure why the designers went this route, maybe they felt that flash was not up to the job back then. |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: Berni on December 02, 2022, 06:30:46 am ---It doesn't bother me as much that car infotainment systems can't be swapped out since they have generally caught up in regard to features. If they still have a CD drive they can play MP3 CDs, they can play music from a USB flash drive, they got AUX jacks etc.. They are also getting Google car play in there so you can mirror your phone screen up onto them to use google maps for navigation. So there is a lot less reason to swap one out. As long as they are made reliable to not break and need replacement. We will see how reliable they end up, Tesla certainly was not off to a good start. However i do hate the new trend of replacing all the physical knobs with a giant touchscreen. You can't do anything anymore by blindly reaching for a knob by feel. You have to actually look all the way down to press a button that you end up missing because a bump in the road made your arm swing over to the next button. If it is illegal to use your phone while you drive, then how is it legal to put these giant touchscreens in cars. If anything using a phone is less distracting since you can hold your phone where your dash gauges would be, letting you see both the road and the screen. My car from 2013 is a bit of a in between mix. It has an infotainment system, but no touchscreen yet, so all knobs are physical and they even work while the infotainment is still booting up. So id still keep most of my other functionality without it. However the infotainment uses a mechanical hard drive for storage (You can even hear it seeking when you turn the car on) so that likely means no high density flash is needed... but is mechanical so it could wear out. Not sure why the designers went this route, maybe they felt that flash was not up to the job back then. --- End quote --- I'm mostly concerned with how well it will age. I've played with a few 5-8 year old tablets and they are pretty useless at this point. My daily driver is 32 years old and still going strong, I can repair virtually any part of it. I don't think we will see a lot of 32 year old cars still on the road 20 years from now, they're all incredibly complex and loaded with technology that becomes obsolete. |
| harerod:
Quote from: AndyC_772 on Yesterday at 21:12:53 ...RF lenses...software workflow ... --- End quote --- Two great additional points, thank you. The lenses are the reason that I am with Canon in the first place. I had access to a professional's collection of lenses, which made me buy the 600D. Over time I bought my own collection of L-glass and those couple of fullframe bodies. Since Canon is obsoleting the EF-bayonet and degrading performance of EF-lenses that use an EF-RF-adapter by firmware (not first hand experience, but reported from different people), there is no reason to stay with them to protect the investment. Therefore firmware controlled obsolescence is another item that could weigh heavier than the shelf life of the electronics. Also thank you for reminding us about the RAW-converter problem. I am still using an old Lightroom 6 permanent license. At least for the time being, alternatives to Adobe are available, at a quite reasonable cost (looking at Capture One permanent license). I think the main problem that drives users crazy, is that we have to worry about planned artificial obsolescense on top of any real hardware issues. Most recent example is the bullshit design of this water cooker (https://www.braunhousehold.com/de-de/multiquick-5-wasserkocher-wk-500-white/p/WK500WH), where they pipe steam from the kettle into the electric compartment to trigger a bi-metal spring. This thing will just fail after a predermined number of cycles. There are way more subtle tricks to booby trap a camera design. |
| tom66:
--- Quote from: james_s on December 02, 2022, 06:35:13 am ---I'm mostly concerned with how well it will age. I've played with a few 5-8 year old tablets and they are pretty useless at this point. My daily driver is 32 years old and still going strong, I can repair virtually any part of it. I don't think we will see a lot of 32 year old cars still on the road 20 years from now, they're all incredibly complex and loaded with technology that becomes obsolete. --- End quote --- It's going to depend on the functionality. The 7 year old infotainment system in my Golf is still fine, as fast as it ever was (it's not too bad to be honest). It has bugs, but those bugs have been there since I first got the car. If it's a device that writes a lot to internal storage (e.g. an Android-based system), then the reliability will be more questionable. Also, it's worth noting that these systems tend to be built to higher standards than a cheap Android tablet. Residual value is important for car buyers and it impacts lease costs. Second what others have said about purely touchscreen interfaces. Great for a mobile phone but not for a car, not until we get true full self driving! |
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