Should Dave Get a Bigger Lab?

[EEVblog]

As the title says, should I get a bigger lab?
Current lab is 50sqm, can't swing a cat, and no windows so kinda depressing considering the hours I spend in there.
Considering a 100sqm office space with 50sqm open space, and 50sqm as office cubicles, plus windows and door that opens onto a balcony. Fresh air would be handy for thermal ovens, chemicals and what not, and sanity. I think I've decided to make windows and a balcony compulsory on any upgrade.
Naturally it costs more than twice as much as my current one. Three times more if I fail to rent my current space out (I own it).
Almost the same location.
What say you...

[Falcon69]

And now you got little Dave workin for ya, along with Sagan coming for a visit once in awhile.

Ya, I'd say you need a bigger place.  Especially if one of you guys has a bodily movement of some kind. Might get alittle stuffy in that small place.

[kolonelkadat]

I vote no just because you make videos for a living. Ive never been to Australia, so I cant pretend to know anything about your area, but it seems like openable windows and doors would be a nightmare of horrible lighting (changing ambiance, odd shadows, reflections off passing cars, lightning strikes, etc) and atrocious street noise or even nature sounds (freaking birds dude. you have no idea.).

[Dave]

Getting a bigger space isn't exactly solving the root of a compulsive hoarding problem.

Whether or not you should get a bigger lab is entirely up to you, I honestly don't think that the opinions of forum members matter here.

[marshallh]

Throw out/sell/move stuff to the bunker?
Dave'll do whatever Dave does 

[TheSteve]

If the monthly cost isn't going to break you I think it is be a very logical "upgrade". You're an outdoor kind of guy Dave, the value of windows, sunlight and fresh air is immense. I say you should make it happen.

[calexanian]

Let the numbers do the talking. If you can be more productive and generate more revenue with a larger place more than the increase in cost then it makes sense. Otherwise it is a luxury that only you can determine the value of to yourself. 

[DimitriP]

Yes because you never know when you might need to swing a cat or make "whoossh" sounds by swinging a probe around.  (Yeah, I get bored sometimes).

[nowlan]

What has changed since last year that you're running out of space.
1. apprentice (and desk)
2. 3d printer

Try to rationalize what you keep there. I think the work bench is the only productive area. There rest of the office is storage.

Try some light therapy. http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/HF3332_60/golite-blu-energy-light

[ez24]

Make a video series on the health effects of having windows.  You need to prove how insane you and Dave Jr are where you are and then how sane you get when you move.  I am sure you can manage the lighting problems.

Put up a bird feeder and aim your live camera at it, I think it would be more fun sometimes (sometimes your live feed looks dead because no one is there).  Of course it has to be an electronic bird feeder.

Start selling your EEV meter and develop a bench version of it.  You need a new place to make/sell it.

Start a KS on your meter (maybe bench version) with a goal that will pay for a new place.

Get Wiki to set up on EEVBlog so your videos would get more hits.

Set up a Electronipedia, that would be central point of all your web stuff and allow others to join it, like a Wiki for electronics (suggestion from another member)

You said it had an outside area.  If so sell bricks and engrave them with donors names and line the walkway or wall with them.   Can you imagine how happy some members would be to see their names on something in the videos.  Name it "The Wall of Support"
This is a popular means to raise money in the US.  Either laser engraved or brass plates glued on the bricks.

Put together and sell some guided tours of Australia that includes your garage and workshop.  Include the famous Duck boats and tour buses.

Sell some of your equipment and put the new owners name on the front and keep it.  Again satisfaction for the buyer to see their names in the videos.

Develop an app to be used by emergency organizations when they need help with anything electronic related.  Your forum has good real time response.  I think this could be a life saver if done right.

Set up your mailbag, stating that you will sell the stuff to help pay for new quarters.

Set up a web page that links jobs between those that need help and those that need the work, for a commission.

Keep your word from a Apr 1 video and get on the payroll of a test equipment manufacture.

My favorite - more videos on cheaper stuff.  Some of your stuff is really over the top for poor people.

Hold Maker type workshops at your new location (thus a larger site is needed).  You could video the lessons.

Set up a paid subscription electronic tutorial site.  Surprising there is a lack of good ones.  PIC32 is sorely missing.  Not just one or two videos but a semester worth of them filmed in front of live students.  I would pay.  So your new place needs to be large enough for holding classroom lessons (at least 12 students).  I think you could teach live students and online ones at the same time.
It seems this type of thing peaked in 2012.

So I say you need a larger place to do all of the above 

[all_repair]

Shifting around is no fun for me.  My strategy to "place" is like to my tech gears: skip as many generation as possible.  I kept a look out for the place and while using the current to the max, and beyond.  Have you max out of the current space?  And get more with excess for your next one.  The bigger the place, the more estate management you have  to do, can be fun and can be not as this shall take time away from electronics.

[ivan747]

Getting a bigger space isn't exactly solving the root of a compulsive hoarding problem.

I'm sorry to say, I agree. You should at least try getting rid of some crap first. I should be doing that too.

For example, most of what's behind the mailbag desk is old stuff, including at least a dozen monitors. Either go build a monitor wall that you're actually going to use, or donate them all to your favorite charity.

[EEVblog]

Whether or not you should get a bigger lab is entirely up to you, I honestly don't think that the opinions of forum members matter here.

Always fun to discuss. Of course I'm going to do what I want 

[rdl]

Having windows and a quick easy way to step outside for a change of scenery and some fresh air are highly desirable things in my opinion.

[ivan747]

Whether or not you should get a bigger lab is entirely up to you, I honestly don't think that the opinions of forum members matter here.

Always fun to discuss. Of course I'm going to do what I want 

Dave knows what's up. 

[EEVblog]

Whilst interest rates are low and likely to stay low then well located desireable office space is not a bad investment.

I'm not buying it, I'd be renting it.
100sqm of prime office space runs over $400k in my area.

[6581]

Air and light are over rated luxuries. They only bring trouble, photoelectric phenomenons and stuff. This is horrible idea. All the electrons will flee from the balcony!

[Deathwish]

$400k !, how much is it to buy a house and convert it all to offices

[tech5940]

Without knowing your monthly financial situation it's hard to say (no I don't expect you to disclose it either) however if you feel its writhing your "budget" then I don't see the downside of you upgrading to an office space where you will enjoy being. In your personal life your a very outdoors oriented person so I can see the benefit of having windows in your lab. I doubt in the long term you'd ever loose money on a real estate investment in Australia so hard to see a downside there. Someone will rent your current lab. On a side note I do feel like you should be promoting "Patreon" more often.  There is no shame on offering free videos and asking those who enjoy them to support via Patreon.  Honestly I watched 75% of your videos before I even learned what Patreon was.. Once I did I had no problem kicking in $5 a month. I was shocked when I saw AvE's  monthly Patreon loot there is no reason yours can't be on par or far past his, mention it on every video in a friendly "pay the bills" kind of way! Your produce some great content no reason not to puff it up a bit...


Sent from my iPhone

[EEVblog]

$400k !, how much is it to buy a house and convert it all to offices

Cheapest house in the area went for $930k
Strangely though, it is possible to rent an entire house for the price of a 100sqm office!

[EEVblog]

On a side note I do feel like you should be promoting "Patreon" more often.  There is no shame on offering free videos and asking those who enjoy them to support via Patreon.  Honestly it watched 75% of your videos before I even learned what Patreon was.. Once I did I had no problem kicking in $5 a month. I was shocked when I saw AvE's Patreon monthly loot there is no reason yours can't be on par or far past his, mention it on every video in a friendly "pay the bills" kind of way! Your produce some great content no reason not to puff it up a bit...

Yes, I've been meaning to get a new outro video that mentions Patreon.

[ivan747]

$400k !, how much is it to buy a house and convert it all to offices

Cheapest house in the area went for $930k
Strangely though, it is possible to rent an entire house for the price of a 100sqm office!

Dude, get the house 

[tech5940]

Glad to hear it. Seriously as I don't subscribe to "normal" tv anymore so when I think about the $120 a month I'd be paying for cable I have no problem giving a few bucks here and there to awesome YouTube contributors who produce entertaining content. No shame in mentioning it if people want to donate they will if not we'll you will still benefit from the YouTube "views". 


Sent from my iPhone

[ez24]

Always fun to discuss. Of course I'm going to do what I want 

This spoils our fun 

[tautech]

As you've indicated you'll be selling DMM's that no doubt you'll be ordering in the 1000's you have no option but to get bigger premises. Inward and dispatch offices, forklift, online sales plus all the stuff you do now, probably 500 M² is what you really need. 

[EEVblog]

Always fun to discuss. Of course I'm going to do what I want 

This spoils our fun 

But you have the illusion of democracy, just like with your government 

[jitter]

As the title says, should I get a bigger lab?
Current lab is 50sqm, can't swing a cat, and no windows so kinda depressing considering the hours I spend in there.

I was wondering about the no windows thing, I definitely agree that that gets very depressing. There's a drawback... if you're a person like me who likes to be outside a lot, then looking at good weather knowing you are free to leave, well... I probably wouldn't be able to resist the temptation.

Considering a 100sqm office space with 50sqm open space, and 50sqm as office cubicles, plus windows and door that opens onto a balcony. Fresh air would be handy for thermal ovens, chemicals and what not, and sanity. I think I've decided to make windows and a balcony compulsory on any upgrade.

IMHO just the sanity thing alone is worth it.

Naturally it costs more than twice as much as my current one. Three times more if I fail to rent my current space out (I own it).
Almost the same location.
What say you...

If you weren't able to afford it, you wouldn't be considering it. So, if I were you, I'd probably go for it.

[EEVblog]

probably 500 M² is what you really need. 

Only a measly $150k/year + outgoings for 500sqm. I'll move right in 

[VK5RC]

I would go for the window and a bigger office, if some of the new projects (DMM etc) and others keep happening (& I hope they do), some extra room for storage/sorting/posting may be very helpful. But have a look at costs, the extra area it has to pay its way!

[ez24]

What is your wife going to think now that you will be going to a nicer place?  Maybe nicer than home?  Maybe you "need" to suffer.

[SeanB]

Windows and a balcony are nice, especially is the noise level there is low enough that you can do things outdoors with low noise, like the rather famous ranting, especially if there is a little ambient noise ( wind in trees, birds but no trucks and car noise) to add to it. Plus wind ruffling the air, plus you can always end by simply panning to the balcony, walking in front looking out and away from the camera, and give the parting words.  Always gives the dramatic feel, plus now you do have somebody to be the second unit operator, and room to actually have a second POV would be nice.

South or East facing so low ambient light level for a part of the day so a white curtain across the window ( plain white cotton curtain, full length and preferably 2 layer for the sound damping it gives) gives a nice even light. North or West facing all day light, but shadows and likely you will have too much ambient light at times for good even lighting.

I like the idea offered above of the Buy a Brick option, as you can buy a whole load of thin brick facing, and simply set up a frame of shutterply  that you glue the brick to and place on the wall. No damage to the existing, and you can move it easily. Single sheer will take at least 10 bricks, and making the labels out of PCB will be cheap as well.

[G7PSK]

A window is an absolute must, the best thinking is done while staring out of one. So it's either move or get a chainsaw and make a window. A balcony is good as well especially for drop tests on equipment.

[pickle9000]

Will it be big enough for a lounge type area? Good for visitors (swmbo and the kids to play or have a nap) and perhaps an interview area. As for the window, so many positives.

[PE1RKI]

what about a garage at your house where you live, and expand the size a bit.

[mikeselectricstuff]

]1uote]Strangely though, it is possible to rent an entire house for the price of a 100sqm office!
[/quote]
There's your answer.
Why pay for commercial space when you don't need it to be. Don't know about Aus but I'd imagine taxes etc. would also be lower. Only minor concern might be security.

[SeanB]

Zoning might prohibit that. Here there was a recent case where plans were passed for a 3 bedroom 1 story house, but what was built was basically a warehouse and commercial retail property. Owner currently has balance of 30 days to demolish or face jail time and demolition by the Metro. Another is a building that started as 5 storeys residential but which now is in court for 13 stories, full coverage and more.

There are a lot of very unhappy neighbours of people running businesses from home, ranging from Meth labs to trucking companies.

[German_EE]

Keep the existing lab but have less stuff in it.

Seriously

Do you really need a dozen scopes and all of the other test equipment that only gets turned on once in a blue moon? Have a big Ebay sale and keep on getting rid of equipment until the need for at least a third of all that shelving is removed. Keep one workbench for 'work' and another for video shooting and that's it.

[nctnico]

Whether or not you should get a bigger lab is entirely up to you, I honestly don't think that the opinions of forum members matter here.

Always fun to discuss. Of course I'm going to do what I want 

To me daylight is very important to feel good. The first thing I did when I started working for myself was putting 2 huge roof windows in my office/lab to get more light in. I'd choose the new office (and probably never went for 'the bunker').

[mikeselectricstuff]

Zoning might prohibit that. Here there was a recent case where plans were passed for a 3 bedroom 1 story house, but what was built was basically a warehouse and commercial retail property. Owner currently has balance of 30 days to demolish or face jail time and demolition by the Metro. Another is a building that started as 5 storeys residential but which now is in court for 13 stories, full coverage and more.

There are a lot of very unhappy neighbours of people running businesses from home, ranging from Meth labs to trucking companies.

But for a business that's just a bloke doing stuff that's not disturbing anyone, moving in to an existing house, much less likely to be a problem. And if it's rented, even less so.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Keep the existing lab but have less stuff in it.

Seriously

+1
Once a year , go round and look at everything, and ask if you've used it in the last year, or are likely to in the next. If not, ebay/freecycle/donate it.

..and you _do_ have that bunker to unload crap into as well...

[vk3yedotcom]

Keep the existing lab but have less stuff in it.

This.

A corollary of Parkinsons Law ('expenditure rises to meet income') is that 'junk increases to fill available space'.

The viewer doesn't care whether you're in your garage, in a small lab or in a bigger lab.

To quote the ending of a speech you'll remember, content is king!

[EEVblog]

There's your answer.
Why pay for commercial space when you don't need it to be. Don't know about Aus but I'd imagine taxes etc. would also be lower. Only minor concern might be security.

There are local council laws that restrict businesses operating from home. It's not that easy.

[EEVblog]

Once a year , go round and look at everything, and ask if you've used it in the last year, or are likely to in the next. If not, ebay/freecycle/donate it.
..and you _do_ have that bunker to unload crap into as well...

Sure. Still doesn't get me a window or fresh air though.

[EEVblog]

..and you _do_ have that bunker to unload crap into as well...

Isn't that full yet? It has the Sinclair C5, The Indiana jones train set, the hardware tins.

Plus two huge teardown victims that can't fit in the lab.
Not close to being full.

[firewalker]

Isn't better to sell the current space and buy another that fits your needs?

Alexander.

[EEVblog]

There's your answer.
Why pay for commercial space when you don't need it to be. Don't know about Aus but I'd imagine taxes etc. would also be lower. Only minor concern might be security.

There are local council laws that restrict businesses operating from home. It's not that easy.

Not allowed to use more than 10% of the house:

Under the Building Code of Australia and SEPP, a Home
Occupation, Home Business or Home Industry is not
permitted to exceed 10% of the existing floor area of the
building as this would change the classification of the
building.
Under Clause 2.43 of the SEPP, a Home Occupation, Home
Business or Home Industry is not permitted to include the
manufacture of food products or the undertaking of skin
penetration procedures.

Nor are you allowed to stab yourself with multimeter probes it seems.

[EEVblog]

Isn't better to sell the current space and buy another that fits your needs?

That's messy. Plus I'd have more capital tied up.
Also, much fewer options for buying places.
There is one vacant literally next door to me, and it has a window. I rather like it, but they won't sell, and they want excessive rent, so it just sits vacant 
I also passed on one next door the other month that went up for sale. It didn't have any windows, and was only a 25sqm upgrade.

[vk3yedotcom]

Sure. Still doesn't get me a window or fresh air though.

Is it worth putting a dollar value on this benefit - even just for an intellectual exercise?

If moving to a bigger lab increases your costs, will your income rise commensurately?

If not, will you need to work even harder to earn more just to retain current income?

Or are you better off to save money by staying put, but go outside for an hour each lunchtime?

If the latter reduces productivity, is the decline in the revenue arising from that reduced productivity less than what you're saving by staying put?

Just like no one claims that government got any better when the politicians moved to the new parliament house in 1988, will a move have a similar effect, or will, unlike the politicians, there be some worthwhile gains? 

[EEVblog]

Is it worth putting a dollar value on this benefit - even just for an intellectual exercise?

That's almost uncalculatable for my unique "business" I think. Because I continue to make money pretty much regardless of how much or what quality of content I produce.
In theory I could have continued to operate out of my 5sqm garage lab and made exactly the same income as I do now.

[RickBrant]

Maybe you could solve the "window" problem with a remote camera feed to an HD screen. Add an outside mic so you can hear the birdies.  I'm only half kidding here!

[firewalker]

I believe there is more practical reasons for having a balcony. You can heat things for example, without triggering expensive alarms.

Alexander.

[continuo]

Go for the bigger lab with all the windows and balcony. And put some plants in there. And get a cat

[HighVoltage]

If you are growing - and it seems you are - then eventually you will have to move to a larger place. And if the opportunity comes to get a better and larger place, it will help you to grow even faster, feel better, be happier and may be even make more money.

Sure, take a risk and get a bigger lab.
 

[bitslice]

Do you need all that space and equipment to work? Or is this just the convenience of working in the same space you've stored all that junk?

I'd rather stay at home and work, and ignore that 10% rule until someone complains.

[bookaboo]

So many variables it's hard for a third party to give a yes/no answer. I would consider looking at whether you are making optimal use of all your space first, a ruthless clear out and upgrade of storage facilities might buy you more time to evaluate. Especially as you have a storage bunker.

[Howardlong]

I work from home and the last lab I had was spare space at the end of the hallway, maybe 2m^2 maximum. It was packed to the gills, and much of the equipment I had that was rarely used ended up in cupboards in the spare room.

I moved a year or so ago, and decided as part of that I'd get enough space for a proper office. That space is 7m^2, and within six months the space was full again.

The benefit of working from home are many, one of which is the view from the window and the balcony, but realistically I maybe look out of the window once a day if at all, and the balcony is used once per month if that. The balcony at the last place had an awesome view over the Thames too, I just didn't use it very much, and when I did it was usually with a pint of gin and tonic in hand.

[all_repair]

Do you need all that space and equipment to work? Or is this just the convenience of working in the same space you've stored all that junk?

I'd rather stay at home and work, and ignore that 10% rule until someone complains.

Don't think he can ignore as he is now, with such a huge youtube viewers.   

[AF6LJ]

Whether or not you should get a bigger lab is entirely up to you, I honestly don't think that the opinions of forum members matter here.

Always fun to discuss. Of course I'm going to do what I want 

I figured you already have your mind made up and know the risks vs benefits.
I guess the real question is; Are you ready to become a property manager, since you own your current location?

[DrGeoff]

Isn't better to sell the current space and buy another that fits your needs?

That's messy. Plus I'd have more capital tied up.
Also, much fewer options for buying places.
There is one vacant literally next door to me, and it has a window. I rather like it, but they won't sell, and they want excessive rent, so it just sits vacant 
I also passed on one next door the other month that went up for sale. It didn't have any windows, and was only a 25sqm upgrade.

Buy the building and put it in your smsf?

[Mechanical Menace]

You wouldn't be asking if you didn't already know you can well afford it. And you wouldn't be asking if the extra room, windows, and balcony weren't a major want. Now I'm not really an outdoorsy person but even I appreciate being able to stare out of the window watching the world go by or taking a cuppa outside while I think over something. But I'd also say that if you can avoid spending the extra money don't bother. So with the sensible head on I'd say it all comes down to the answer to the following question. Do you think the extra space and more pleasant environment will lead to higher productivity and/or make it possible to take on more lucrative projects you just can't handle in the 50 square meters?

[EEVblog]

I believe there is more practical reasons for having a balcony. You can heat things for example, without triggering expensive alarms.

Last month I stunk out the lab for 3 days using the thermal oven. Had to leave the door open all the time.

[EEVblog]

Buy the building and put it in your smsf?

Who do you think owns my bunker 

[AF6LJ]

I believe there is more practical reasons for having a balcony. You can heat things for example, without triggering expensive alarms.

Last month I stunk out the lab for 3 days using the thermal oven. Had to leave the door open all the time.

I was thinking about that when you were running the oven for the TV repair project, I'll bet you got some dirty looks from the other tenants in the building. All the more reason to pull the trigger and move to a larger space with outside airflow.

[nowlan]

linustechtips used to work of a rented kitchen. They just moved into a larger warehousey thing. But they have a few staff supporting the leads, and have a heap of sponsorship/spruiking.

[GK]

If you want to feel closer to nature you could just get some lab chickens. Much cheaper than renting a bigger space and you get fresh eggs to crack for breakfast to boot.

They also make for more intelligent conversation than a significant number of people who hang out here

[fcb]

Your biggest resource constraint is not the size of your lab - it's your time...

If you can get fresh air and real daylight, that's a HUGE bonus, but if you can have a clear out / binning session and save the time/distraction, that's what I would do.

DMM - I must have missed this, is this the 'secret' project with another manufacturer???

 

[EEVblog]

And another one pops up on the radar. 150sqm and cheaper than the other 100sqm one. Has a window in one room overlooking something I don't know yet. Reminds me of the time I got an apartment in Melbourne with a view, of a brick wall of the building next door.
Must have chalk body outlines on the floor or something for the price. Sounds very suss...

[coppice]

If you want to feel closer to nature you could just get some lab chickens. Much cheaper than renting a bigger space and you get fresh eggs to crack for breakfast to boot.

Trip on one of those and you could have a serious cock up.

[EEVblog]

but if you can have a clear out / binning session and save the time/distraction, that's what I would do.

Crazy prices, everything must go!
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271998538725
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271998513667

[SeanB]

If you want to feel closer to nature you could just get some lab chickens. Much cheaper than renting a bigger space and you get fresh eggs to crack for breakfast to boot.

They also make for more intelligent conversation than a significant number of people who hang out here

White not brown........... I agree on the conversation, though often all I get is a bemused look and then back to the bowl of pellets.

[zapta]

Dave, since you are now self employed and not tied to a specific location, the question is why do you live in Sidney in the first place?

Can't you find a back country property with land, view, a big house and a large barn for your lab, all for a very reasonable price?

[Sbampato12]

Dave, since you are now self employed and not tied to a specific location, the question is why do you live in Sidney in the first place?

Can't you find a back country property with land, view, a big house and a large barn for your lab, all for a very reasonable price?

I don't know Australia, but that could impact on Internet (avaliable? velocity?), David 2, mail speed... etc... Schools for the children

[Bud]

I'd avoid a place in downtown core, constant fire-ambulance-police sirenes are very annoying. Birds are just music to the ears compare to that. A place in an industrial area should also be checked for noise and traffic. But there would be not much to look at from the window.

[Mechanical Menace]

Can't you find a back country property with land, view, a big house and a large barn for your lab, all for a very reasonable price?

You wouldn't get decent internet speeds at all and the sticks are a terrible place to grow up in most ways. All that beautiful scenery but rubbish schools and nothing to do but drugs.

[kwass]

Keep in mind that if you move to a different building you won't have access to the incredible amount of stuff you've found in the "dumpster dive" room.  I'd say keep the current lab but get an additional, nicer, smaller space with a window.  You can spend all your editing and other business time in there, and if needed do the smelly stuff there too -- but probably just avoid the smelly stuff all together that can't be good for your health.

[Stonent]

It's not a business, it's a hobby. Just keep telling yourself that, and the council.

You ran it out of your garage before so you could do it out of a house.

[zapta]

All that beautiful scenery but rubbish schools and nothing to do but drugs.

Hmm, drugs, nothing less...

And I imagined the two Sagans building a tree house or raising goats, their daddy records a video in the barn and their mother is gardening her tomatoes patch, or play tennis with a friend on their private court, and then they all go to the main building for a family lunch.

I guess that possibilities are in the eye of the beholder.  ;-)

[Bloch]

Exactly that i was thinking.


To me it sounds like a problems of the big city lovers. Move out if you cant afford it simple or have a longer commute.


Quote from: zapta on Today at 12:58:31 AM

Dave, since you are now self employed and not tied to a specific location, the question is why do you live in Sidney in the first place?

Can't you find a back country property with land, view, a big house and a large barn for your lab, all for a very reasonable price?

[Bloch]

An one more thing. It is so nice to inhale all the pollution. The best thing is, that it is the children that are most receptive.

[nctnico]

Exactly that i was thinking.

To me it sounds like a problems of the big city lovers. Move out if you cant afford it simple or have a longer commute.

I'm not sure but I have a feeling people are concentrated in the big cities in Australia (and also in New Zealand). Even in the not so densely populated Denmark you can always find a vilage within a few km so services like school and public transport are available.

[Bloch]

> I have a feeling people are concentrated in the big cities in Australia


Sure they are and that make it more expensive 


Not an expert but i guess it is less expensive to live in like Mittagong? 1 hour transport time....


Quote from: nctnico on Today at 03:10:37 AM

>Quote from: Bloch on Today at 02:09:29 AM

Exactly that i was thinking.

To me it sounds like a problems of the big city lovers. Move out if you cant afford it simple or have a longer commute.

I'm not sure but I have a feeling people are concentrated in the big cities in Australia (and also in New Zealand). Even in the not so densely populated Denmark you can always find a vilage within a few km so services like school and public transport are available.

[Mechanical Menace]

And I imagined the two Sagans building a tree house or raising goats, ..., or play tennis with a friend on their private court, and then they all go to the main building for a family lunch.

All things adults think kids love but (from my memories anyway) bore them senseless. Once a tree house is built it's boring, tennis is what your parents want you to enjoy...

I guess that possibilities are in the eye of the beholder.  ;-)

Yeah, as an adult I'd love it. As a kid I wanted to be around my friends, not my parents friends kids.

[Mechanical Menace]

An one more thing. It is so nice to inhale all the pollution. The best thing is, that it is the children that are most receptive.

I don't think all those pesticides and mountains of animal feasces can be that bad for you.

[Bloch]

Well i did mean pollution in the big city  is much more bad than the smaller city.


Quote from: Mechanical Menace on Today at 03:56:49 AM

>Quote from: Bloch on Today at 02:17:02 AM

An one more thing. It is so nice to inhale all the pollution. The best thing is, that it is the children that are most receptive.

I don't think all those pesticides and mountains of animal feasces can be that bad for you.

[zapta]

I took a brief look at the Australia equivalent of Zillow. Here is one example, not necessarily a perfect fit for Dave but an example what living outside of Megalopolis may offer. 5 bedrooms, 3+ acres, lake waterfront, stores and tennis court nearby, private jetty, asking price ~560k USD.  Beat this Sydney! (or New York, or San Francisco, or ...)

http://www.onthehouse.com.au/buy/property/56103180/35_Attunga_Pl_Pacific_Palms_NSW/

[Galenbo]

Sure. Still doesn't get me a window or fresh air though.

That's my nr1 too. A bit of fresh air, seeing birds or animals move, a walk 5 minutes outside.
Especially in winter, without window you don't see the sun for 5 months if you're in between 8hr and 18hr.

[nctnico]

Well i did mean pollution in the big city  is much more bad than the smaller city.

Not really. In farm areas you'll have bad smell from farm animals and usage of pesticides which will cause (not 'can cause'!) health problems.

[tautech]

Well i did mean pollution in the big city  is much more bad than the smaller city.

Not really. In farm areas you'll have bad smell from farm animals and usage of pesticides which will cause (not 'can cause'!) health problems.

Think I'd rather risk this than the ongoing smog and pollution of big cities.

[SeanB]

Trees outside, park across the road, 24 hour traffic, what more could I want. Add of course the electric fence, Razor wire,   palisade and spanish style burglar bars on all windows, and a security gate designed for use in a small bank.

Scary thing is the price in Aus for Dave's house here would buy a 5 bedroom house on a quarter acre property, with parking for at least 4 cars in a garage, household assistant housing, a pool and entertainment area, in a great neighbourhood. Change left over for a car or two as well, and to pay all expenses including the live in nanny for at least 3 years as well. Room on there as well to run Dave’s channel as well from the house.

[free_electron]

If the financials can afford it : HELL YEAH !!

have a dedicated 'mechanical shop' ( saw , drillpress, 3d printer et al )
have a dedicated 'shooting room' correct lighting , multi camera setup etc.
nice balcony to 'air out the brain dust'

go for it.

[mikeselectricstuff]

There's your answer.
Why pay for commercial space when you don't need it to be. Don't know about Aus but I'd imagine taxes etc. would also be lower. Only minor concern might be security.

There are local council laws that restrict businesses operating from home. It's not that easy.

Not allowed to use more than 10% of the house:

"The videos are the business. The rest is just a hobby."
Would be somewhat hard for anyone to prove.

[tautech]

There's your answer.
Why pay for commercial space when you don't need it to be. Don't know about Aus but I'd imagine taxes etc. would also be lower. Only minor concern might be security.

There are local council laws that restrict businesses operating from home. It's not that easy.

This may be the case in an urban setting  but in a semi rural environment I doubt it is. 
Think about the benefits for your family and the clean peaceful rural setting.
No daily commute, lunch with the wife  etc
Sure net connectivity might be an issue but if you find something close to a telco's cabinet and it probably offers VDSL (80 Mb/s) out to 500m distance.

[bills]

Always fun to discuss. Of course I'm going to do what I want 

This spoils our fun 

But you have the illusion of democracy, just like with your government 

Our government never was or intended to be a democracy, It is a republic. (at least that is the intention.)

bill

[Stonent]

There's your answer.
Why pay for commercial space when you don't need it to be. Don't know about Aus but I'd imagine taxes etc. would also be lower. Only minor concern might be security.

There are local council laws that restrict businesses operating from home. It's not that easy.

Not allowed to use more than 10% of the house:

"The videos are the business. The rest is just a hobby."
Would be somewhat hard for anyone to prove.

As long as the camera is rolling only 9% of the time, I think he's in the clear.  He also has a hobby of video editing, forum posting and uploading.

[Radio Tech]

I'm with free_electron
Hell Yeah...

[EEVblog]

Keep in mind that if you move to a different building you won't have access to the incredible amount of stuff you've found in the "dumpster dive" room.

I'll still have the key. Just less convenient to check of course.

[ez24]

Find an office that itself will become the subject of Youtube and a website.
This guy found this out his office window and has been filming for years.

It became so popular he added another camera (11foot8 bridge):

[DrGeoff]

Buy the building and put it in your smsf?

Who do you think owns my bunker 

 

[DrGeoff]

Find an office that itself will become the subject of Youtube and a website.
This guy found this out his office window and has been filming for years.

It became so popular he added another camera (11foot8 bridge):

And some of the great traffic cams. This one is good, in Finland. Particularly in the middle of Winter.
http://liikennetilanne.liikennevirasto.fi/?view=drivingConditionView

[ez24]

A bigger lab that will have dedicated areas for different topics and gear. 

May I suggest one:  one that is dedicated to electronic devices for handicap people.  There is a wide range price wise and a good review should be helpful for handicap people.  Also for people with alzheimer's disease.  Keep in mind one thing - it is very likely someday you will be old also.  So something you find useful today may be used by you in 50 years.

Also I think this would open up a new area for you.  And it would be a good contribution to mankind.

[EEVblog]

Yes, 240p, stupid pocket cam reset to defaults 

This place is stupidly cheap (for the area), practically half price 150sqm elsewhere. $5k/year cheaper than the balcony one at 100sqm (+balcony) I have yet to look at.
Only downside, no internet, same position I was in before on ADSL2+, but that might be sortable.

[pickle9000]

That's massive, I like it!

[DrGeoff]

This place is stupidly cheap (for the area), practically half price 150sqm elsewhere. $5k/year cheaper than the balcony one at 100sqm (+balcony) I have yet to look at.
Only downside, no internet, same position I was in before on ADSL2+, but that might be sortable.

Still in Norwest?

[ez24]

Impressive
Next the White House

[EEVblog]

Still in Norwest?

Yup. Literally on top of The Bunker.

[EEVblog]

Actually, if I move all the Bunker stuff into a room in this place, and rented the bunker out, and rented out the current lab, this place technically wouldn't actually cost me anything 

[ez24]

Still in Norwest?

Yup. Literally on top of The Bunker.

Funny - I own a building that everyone calls "The Bunker" because the walls are 12" thick and made of concrete and no windows.  Bet my Bunker can beat your Bunker (but we would need a small A bomb to test them) 

[ez24]

Try and get the paintings and put them on the walls

[EEVblog]

Funny - I own a building that everyone calls "The Bunker" because the walls are 12" thick and made of concrete and no windows.  Bet my Bunker can beat your Bunker (but we would need a small A bomb to test them) 

Mine's underground 

[BillyD]

Definitely.

Whatever about the space, the natural light and fresh air are a huge factor in physical and mental wellbeing.

[Galenbo]

Not really. In farm areas you'll have bad smell from farm animals and usage of pesticides which will cause (not 'can cause'!) health problems.

Think I'd rather risk this than the ongoing smog and pollution of big cities.

Without TV, none of these would exist.

[Galenbo]

Actually, if I move all the Bunker stuff into a room in this place, and rented the bunker out, and rented out the current lab, this place technically wouldn't actually cost me anything 

Maybe, in this new location, there's place for another startup/hobbyist/... so you can gain some income + have an extra access to activity + gives you free material for videos.

[ez24]

It is big enough for EEV University.  You have enough equipment and I hope you offer classes to members so I can get a .edu email and get some discounts.

[6581]

Is there a toilet nearby? Is the door next to fire extinguisher entrance? Looks spacious to me. Would definitely take it if it's reasonable price and location is fine.

[KJDS]

I've seen a couple of businesses go bankrupt by moving to bigger premises in good times, only for unexpected income reductions, or a lack of continued growth in business to result in a cash flow crisis.

[EEVblog]

I've seen a couple of businesses go bankrupt by moving to bigger premises in good times, only for unexpected income reductions, or a lack of continued growth in business to result in a cash flow crisis.

Yes, although technically I'd be getting this place for "free", it's not the same cash flow situation. Cash flow is king in business.
Things would have to go drastically wrong for that to be a problem though.

[bookaboo]

Definitely.

Whatever about the space, the natural light and fresh air are a huge factor in physical and mental wellbeing.

As someone with their workspace in the back office (no windows) I can agree totally.

[nctnico]

I've seen a couple of businesses go bankrupt by moving to bigger premises in good times, only for unexpected income reductions, or a lack of continued growth in business to result in a cash flow crisis.

Yes, although technically I'd be getting this place for "free", it's not the same cash flow situation. Cash flow is king in business.
Things would have to go drastically wrong for that to be a problem though.

Still I'd keep a close eye on the money and take the necessary actions immediately. Shit can fly in from any (unexpected) direction and you do have a family to support. A business owner can only sit back & relax after he is retired!

[VK5RC]

Dave's biggest asset is between his ears!
Keeping ideas fresh and interesting is hard, a window could be quite productive in that regard.

[Towger]

Still like the warehouse you were looking at last time better. How are you going to haul all your junk equipment up that stairs. I am sure David does not have or want an equipment transportation Union Card.
Roller doors and plenty of space to work on the DMC time machine is required.

[Rasz]

Said it before, will say it again:
Australia is ridiculously expensive. Sell everything, move to Taiwan/Singapore. You will be able to afford a small mansion with symmetric 100Mbit and top English speaking school for Sagan.

[AF6LJ]

Well this candidate for the EEV Lab looks nice; the question is can you open the windows??

[Towger]

Said it before, will say it again:

It is all a cycle, what does up comes down. We are currently buying 640sqm of '1950s rundown warehouse and offices' from our landlord for €225K in Dublin. This is just over 8.5 years rent, but he wants shot of it. The unit in front of it (same size) just went up for sale for €250K (hope the landlord does not spot this), but the kicker is that these units were going for 7+ figures 10 years ago.

[ivan747]

Always fun to discuss. Of course I'm going to do what I want 

This spoils our fun 

But you have the illusion of democracy, just like with your government 

Nice 

[ivan747]

There's your answer.
Why pay for commercial space when you don't need it to be. Don't know about Aus but I'd imagine taxes etc. would also be lower. Only minor concern might be security.

There are local council laws that restrict businesses operating from home. It's not that easy.

Not allowed to use more than 10% of the house:

Under the Building Code of Australia and SEPP, a Home
Occupation, Home Business or Home Industry is not
permitted to exceed 10% of the existing floor area of the
building as this would change the classification of the
building.
Under Clause 2.43 of the SEPP, a Home Occupation, Home
Business or Home Industry is not permitted to include the
manufacture of food products or the undertaking of skin
penetration procedures.

Nor are you allowed to stab yourself with multimeter probes it seems.

Get a 1000sqm house   

[AF6LJ]

There's your answer.
Why pay for commercial space when you don't need it to be. Don't know about Aus but I'd imagine taxes etc. would also be lower. Only minor concern might be security.

There are local council laws that restrict businesses operating from home. It's not that easy.

Not allowed to use more than 10% of the house:

Under the Building Code of Australia and SEPP, a Home
Occupation, Home Business or Home Industry is not
permitted to exceed 10% of the existing floor area of the
building as this would change the classification of the
building.
Under Clause 2.43 of the SEPP, a Home Occupation, Home
Business or Home Industry is not permitted to include the
manufacture of food products or the undertaking of skin
penetration procedures.

Nor are you allowed to stab yourself with multimeter probes it seems.

Why Not?
In regard to Zoning; I liked living in Houston TX  they had very lax almost nonexistent zoning regulations.
It doesn't get any more American than being free to do with your property as you would.

[Bud]

Is basement space included in the floor area?

[ivan747]

Actually, if I move all the Bunker stuff into a room in this place, and rented the bunker out, and rented out the current lab, this place technically wouldn't actually cost me anything 

But you don't own those, do you? If you do, move the hell outta there.

[mtdoc]

Actually, if I move all the Bunker stuff into a room in this place, and rented the bunker out, and rented out the current lab, this place technically wouldn't actually cost me anything 

But you don't own those, do you? If you do, move the hell outta there.

I believe he does own those.

[ez24]

Said it before, will say it again:
Australia is ridiculously expensive. Sell everything, move to Taiwan/Singapore. You will be able to afford a small mansion with symmetric 100Mbit and top English speaking school for Sagan.

Miserable weather

[LINACboy]

If you want to feel closer to nature you could just get some lab chickens.

+1 

[...]should I get a bigger lab?

Day after moving in:


1 month after moving in:


2 years after moving in:


4 years after moving in:
Should Dave Get a Bigger Lab?


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana

[ez24]

Just imagine how much more stuff Dave can get.  I am jealous.  I look forward to the day when the new place is packed.

[ivan747]

Just imagine how much more stuff Dave can get.  I am jealous.  I look forward to the day when the new place is packed.

He must have a bunk bed for visitors. That's mandatory.

[EEVblog]

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana

Did you have a point?

[EEVblog]

Is basement space included in the floor area?

What basement space?

[EEVblog]

the question is can you open the windows??

Nope. So no fresh air, unless I left the bottom door down the stairs open that leads to the carpark.

[EEVblog]

But you don't own those, do you? If you do, move the hell outta there.

Yes, I own them. Why would owning them mean I should "move the hell out"?

[DrGeoff]

I like the new space with all the little office rooms. Sagan will need an office soon

[ez24]

the question is can you open the windows??

Nope. So no fresh air, unless I left the bottom door down the stairs open that leads to the carpark.

Bummer - if you are renting it - can you negotiate putting in new windows?  If you make another video - show us the view outside.

[DrGeoff]

the question is can you open the windows??

Nope. So no fresh air, unless I left the bottom door down the stairs open that leads to the carpark.

Fresh air gets pumped in and circulated via the aircon. Provided the filters are clean
If you get the new place (150sqm) maybe you could lease out the old lab space.
I'd keep the bunker as-is. Good for NAS and other onsite backup systems, as well as storage.

[AF6LJ]

the question is can you open the windows??

Nope. So no fresh air, unless I left the bottom door down the stairs open that leads to the carpark.

Bummer..
Fresh Air is sometimes a necessity in order to clear the head.

[Bud]

Is basement space included in the floor area?

What basement space?

You said not allowed to use more than 10% of the house for business. Basement is the floor under the ground floor, don't you guys have basements in houses in Australia? It may or may not be counted as living space, some houses have huge basements that can be finished and used for a Lab.

[pickle9000]

@ Dave

Can you put in a vent? That would be very handy when doing reflow.

[DrGeoff]

Is basement space included in the floor area?

What basement space?

You said not allowed to use more than 10% of the house for business. Basement is the floor under the ground floor, don't you guys have basements in houses in Australia? It may or may not be counted as living space, some houses have huge basements that can be finished and used for a Lab.

It depends on the local council, but in NSW urban residential usually all floor space is counted (including garage) as the total house floor spare area.

Don't try to compare the rules and regulations between states, let alone countries. The red tape will make your head spin!

[EEVblog]

You said not allowed to use more than 10% of the house for business. Basement is the floor under the ground floor, don't you guys have basements in houses in Australia?

No, we don't, it's not a thing here. Very rare in a normal house.

[EEVblog]

If you get the new place (150sqm) maybe you could lease out the old lab space.

Of course I'd have to, it would be very expensive (and pointless) to keep both.

[Red Squirrel]

Bigger is always better, it means room for more stuff as well as more simultaneous projects.    If you go big enough can maybe even get a pcb milling, pick and place machine and reflow oven production line going in there. 

[coppice]

Said it before, will say it again:
Australia is ridiculously expensive. Sell everything, move to Taiwan/Singapore. You will be able to afford a small mansion with symmetric 100Mbit and top English speaking school for Sagan.

Singapore is one of the most expensive places to live in the world, and English standards in Taiwan are poor. Neither suggestion makes a lot of sense.
.

[ez24]

Of course I'd have to, it would be very expensive (and pointless) to keep both.

Expensive - yes
Pointless  - no  (more stuff - you never can have too much stuff)

[Zad]

If you want English speaking, then England's not a bad place. Other than the weather, government, local councils, exchange rate... Yeah I'm not selling this well am I. York (literally 5 mins from the countryside) does have Gigabit connectivity though. 60 mins flight from mainland Europe and 8 hours from East coast USA. Not going to happen though is it, roots go down a long way.

Its a shame the office in that video isn't for sale, because as it stands at the moment, it is divided into rooms which are not much more than a couple of cubicle spaces each. I'm not one for all this Feng Shui claptrap, but it doesn't "flow" well and they don't feel that usable. The rooms with windows in look pretty pokey too, smaller than the existing lab. It needs some of those walls removing.

I don't think you need much more space than you have at the moment, once all the crap has been dumped / Ebayed / donated. I know it is so tempting to think it is all going to be useful one day, but I'm sure local schools, amateur radio clubs and so on could make better use out of some of it. I wholeheartedly agree about light and air though. I have turned jobs down because they were in bunker type rooms. It isn't so much the S.A.D. aspect, they just make me feel like a battery hen inside some sort of soulless productivity machine. There comes a time in most of our lives where quality of life starts to be more important than standard of living, and I think now you have 2 adorable ankle-biters then it is the natural time to move on to the next stage.

TL;DR:

* Nothing beats daylight (preferably southern facing) for lighting, albeit highly variable.
* Being in contact with the outside world matters
* You don't need much (any) more space for the video side of things.
* Security issues when people find out where you are, and where $200K of test gear is stored.
* In a larger office, the studio area can be kept separate from the development and admin side of things

[Len]

After this week's Mailbag, I bet Dave is looking at the office rates in Iceland.

[nctnico]

Said it before, will say it again:
Australia is ridiculously expensive. Sell everything, move to Taiwan/Singapore. You will be able to afford a small mansion with symmetric 100Mbit and top English speaking school for Sagan.

Singapore is one of the most expensive places to live in the world, and English standards in Taiwan are poor. Neither suggestion makes a lot of sense.

Penang in Malaysia is a good place. A tropical island in the ocean with all the top notch tech companies of the world around the corner.

[ivan747]

But you don't own those, do you? If you do, move the hell outta there.

Yes, I own them. Why would owning them mean I should "move the hell out"?

You can rent those (or the current lab at least) and it helps to pay for the larger lab's rent.

[XynxNet]

Well what would you do with all the tiny rooms?

I'd say look for a place with windows in your main working area.

[ez24]

I suggest Dave move to

310 De Guigne Dr.
Sunnyvale, CA 94085

[wkb]

I guess Dave needs a new solar system.  With 48 hours in a given day 

[Maxlor]

I guess Dave needs a new solar system.  With 48 hours in a given day 

Feasibly in a window-less office/lab

Seriously though, never mind the space, access to daylight would be enough of a motivator to make me consider moving. I like natural light *a lot* more than lamps.

[isaiahA]

the bigger the better

[EEVblog]

We decided to pass on that big space I showed on the video. Both SWMBO and myself decided the owner was way too dodgy, kinda like this:

[nctnico]

We decided to pass on that big space I showed on the video.

Good decission! I would not have taken it just for the lack of windows.  Who designs buildings like that? 
Yeah it would be a great space for women with webcams but that is a different business 

[felixd]

Is basement space included in the floor area?

What basement space?

You said not allowed to use more than 10% of the house for business. Basement is the floor under the ground floor, don't you guys have basements in houses in Australia? It may or may not be counted as living space, some houses have huge basements that can be finished and used for a Lab.

That's what I'm doing in my place right now



and my window view

@Dave: Move to Poland, it's WAY MUCH cheaper than UK and better weather