should i become an engineer?

[SeanB]

A friend of a friend has a doctorate in electronic engineering, he now works lecturing and in the R&D lab at one of the top universities in Ireland, he asked me to have a look at a particular HF Welder repair that I know well so we decided to work it out together. I'm not making this up but he couldn't identify basic components like 100nF caps (i.e. he didnt know they were caps).

Not that bullshit again. You don't ask a highly decorated chef to warm up a can of soup and you don't ask an EE PhD to repair a fscking welder.

The Chef will know how to warm up soup, as he would have done an apprenticeship under another Chef, and the first things you do as a beginner is to wash dishes, clean floors and warm up stuff. Not a university education where it is all theory and almost no practical, this is all about doing the job and getting it right always.

[ddavidebor]

Be a politician. No math and a lot of girl.

That should work inmy country, people are usually stupid enought.

[bookaboo]

A friend of a friend has a doctorate in electronic engineering, he now works lecturing and in the R&D lab at one of the top universities in Ireland, he asked me to have a look at a particular HF Welder repair that I know well so we decided to work it out together. I'm not making this up but he couldn't identify basic components like 100nF caps (i.e. he didnt know they were caps).

Not that bullshit again. You don't ask a highly decorated chef to warm up a can of soup and you don't ask an EE PhD to repair a fscking welder.

Really not sure if you're being serious or not.

For starters he asked me as a favour, he was interested in seeing the workshop etc. and it was a good excuse to do so.
Of course every engineer is going to have their strengths and weaknesses, this guy is damned smart and could learn what I know far faster than I could learn what he knows.... add to that the fact that he almost certainly earns a multiple of what I do for far less work and you can see I was hardly bragging or putting anyone down.

My simple point is that the UK electronic degree system has inherent serious flaws in that it skips almost entirely practical fundementals.
There's no good reason for this, as such fundementals are relatively easy (compared with some of the math they fire at you) and pretty interesting too even if you never plan to lower yourself to the level of the soldering iron or microprocessor.

[Abstr7ct]

My simple point is that the UK electronic degree system has inherent serious flaws in that it skips almost entirely practical fundementals.
There's no good reason for this, as such fundementals are relatively easy (compared with some of the math they fire at you) and pretty interesting too even if you never plan to lower yourself to the level of the soldering iron or microprocessor.

So now microprocessors are for lower levels?

[Dave]

he almost certainly earns a multiple of what I do for far less work

You don't really know what he does or how much he earns, but you are certain he does way less work than you do. Seems legit.

[smashedProton]

Jeremy Blum wrote an article that would be of use to you.   It's on his website.

[nctnico]

he almost certainly earns a multiple of what I do for far less work

You don't really know what he does or how much he earns, but you are certain he does way less work than you do. Seems legit.

One of my mentors told me I should not work hard but work smart.

[bookaboo]

My simple point is that the UK electronic degree system has inherent serious flaws in that it skips almost entirely practical fundementals.
There's no good reason for this, as such fundementals are relatively easy (compared with some of the math they fire at you) and pretty interesting too even if you never plan to lower yourself to the level of the soldering iron or microprocessor.

So now microprocessors are for lower levels?

Sorry, I was being ironic.

[bookaboo]

he almost certainly earns a multiple of what I do for far less work

You don't really know what he does or how much he earns, but you are certain he does way less work than you do. Seems legit.

Well he works <40hrs a week and says the work it never too stressful, so yeah first hand sources are generally legit.

I don't get whats so hard to understand really, it's the system I'm bashing . It's seriously lacking in real life skills.
Would I recommend an 18 year old wanting to get into electronics to do a degree? Yes.
But only so that they can get the foot in the door of well run companies, if you want to actually learn how to be an engineer you either need to wait until you finish uni or supplement the degree with your own learning.

[ddavidebor]

Jeremy Blum wrote an article that would be of use to you.   It's on his website.

I've found the site but not the article. Do you have a link or some keyword to search ar least?

[Dave]

Well he works <40hrs a week and says the work it never too stressful, so yeah first hand sources are generally legit.

I don't get whats so hard to understand really, it's the system I'm bashing . It's seriously lacking in real life skills.
Would I recommend an 18 year old wanting to get into electronics to do a degree? Yes.
But only so that they can get the foot in the door of well run companies, if you want to actually learn how to be an engineer you either need to wait until you finish uni or supplement the degree with your own learning.

I agree that you also need practical knowledge, if you want  to be a good engineer. At least if you are involved with practical circuit design. There are also fields of work that don't require practical knowledge.

What ticked me off was the fact that you were putting your colleague down. Not being able to recognize a capacitor doesn't automatically make him a shitty engineer. Just because he says his job isn't stressful, doesn't mean his work is easy. And just because he doesn't work as many hours as you do, that doesn't mean he does less work. You said it yourself, that he is capable of learning faster than you. It makes you sound like a factory worker, who has never in his entire life had to use his brain to earn money and he is the first one to bash "those a-holes, sitting behind their computers, not doing sh*t, while I have to work my a*s off for half their pay". It's this kind of populist bullsh*t that really gets on my nerves.

[bookaboo]

You're just reading what you want to read, jumping to incorrect conclusions about me and my colleague and now making personal attacks so I'm going to leave it. Good luck in your future endeavors.

[ddavidebor]

Guys, don't start shooting each other, there is a young man that need advices here.

[c4757p]

making personal attacks

I see no personal attacks here, just somewhat blunt disagreement followed by accusations of personal attacks.

[Stonent]

hi guys. i'm pretty near 18yo and in a couple of year i need to decide if i will go to university or not.

electronic has been my interest since i've memory. a lot of my "side" interest way science, biology, chemistry, nuclear physics, medicine...
about me, i'm a nerdy fat guy who loves horses, girls and i have been able to build everything i want, despite of people say that it way impossible.
and i've the money to open a company.

i've never been good at math. really, for me is a instrument and i can use it event in advanced manner for my age but it's nothing more for me.
i hate the idea to live my life in front of a computer screen.

i don't want to work for somebody for 35 years doing the same thing with the same money.
really, my mom has a degree in literature and has worked for 35 year for the country. actually, my best friend had worked 35 DAYS and he receive monthly double my mom's money.

i want to open a company in the next future, some kind of start up if needed.

So I have never had any desire to run a company at all, but several of my family members and friends have started small businesses, some of them successful.  For the most part, I think the "I want to start a company but I don't know what I want to do" is a backwards attitude.  It is much better off if you start with something you want to do, and the only way to make it work is to start your own company.  I am sure there are counter examples, this is just my experience.  So my recommendation is put the idea to start a company at the back of your mind for the moment.  Study, go to school, meet some people, work a job or two and get some experience.  If nothing else, you will hate it.  That is important, because you will remember that hate.  Then, when you have your own company and you wake up in the middle of the night in terror because everything is going wrong and you don't know if you can make payroll this month, you can remind yourself how much you hated the alternative.  At best you will learn some things that will be useful, make some friends who are possible future business partners, get a better idea of what you want to actually do, and learn the background you will need to accomplish it.

Peter Gibbons: Our high school guidance counselor used to ask us what you'd do if you had a million dollars and you didn't have to work. And invariably what you'd say was supposed to be your career. So, if you wanted to fix old cars then you're supposed to be an auto mechanic.
Samir: So what did you say?
Peter Gibbons: I never had an answer. I guess that's why I'm working at Initech.
Michael Bolton: No, you're working at Initech because that question is bullshit to begin with. If everyone listened to her, there'd be no janitors, because no one would clean shit up if they had a million dollars.

Peter Gibbons: What would you do if you had a million dollars?

[free_electron]

The Chef will know how to warm up soup, as he would have done an apprenticeship under another Chef, and the first things you do as a beginner is to wash dishes, clean floors and warm up stuff. Not a university education where it is all theory and almost no practical, this is all about doing the job and getting it right always.

Bingo. +1 like.

of course, asking the chef to warm up the soup would be a waste of money , but a chef that doesn't know what soup is i also a waste of money ...

[marshallh]

So I have never had any desire to run a company at all, but several of my family members and friends have started small businesses, some of them successful.  For the most part, I think the "I want to start a company but I don't know what I want to do" is a backwards attitude.  It is much better off if you start with something you want to do, and the only way to make it work is to start your own company.  I am sure there are counter examples, this is just my experience.  So my recommendation is put the idea to start a company at the back of your mind for the moment.  Study, go to school, meet some people, work a job or two and get some experience.  If nothing else, you will hate it.  That is important, because you will remember that hate.  Then, when you have your own company and you wake up in the middle of the night in terror because everything is going wrong and you don't know if you can make payroll this month, you can remind yourself how much you hated the alternative.  At best you will learn some things that will be useful, make some friends who are possible future business partners, get a better idea of what you want to actually do, and learn the background you will need to accomplish it.

I can vouch for the accuracy of this paragraph

[sub]

he almost certainly earns a multiple of what I do for far less work

You don't really know what he does or how much he earns, but you are certain he does way less work than you do. Seems legit.

Well he works <40hrs a week and says the work it never too stressful, so yeah first hand sources are generally legit.

I don't get whats so hard to understand really, it's the system I'm bashing . It's seriously lacking in real life skills.
Would I recommend an 18 year old wanting to get into electronics to do a degree? Yes.
But only so that they can get the foot in the door of well run companies, if you want to actually learn how to be an engineer you either need to wait until you finish uni or supplement the degree with your own learning.

That doesn't make the theory unimportant, though.  One's first job is going to do a far better job of instilling practical knowledge than any number of three hour prac sessions, so why bother teaching poorly things that students will learn on the job, and to the detriment of those that they will not?

A few years of vector analysis and transmission lines won't significantly impede one's learning to program, but woe betide the man who has spent his four years learning the ins and outs of every microcontroller peripheral on the market come the time to add a radio interface to the board.

[bookaboo]

Some vids from Dave on careers



Also, some books I wish i'd read when I was younger:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Talent-Overrated-Separates-World-Class-Performers/dp/1857885198/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376345046&sr=8-1&keywords=talent+is+overrated
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bounce-Myth-Talent-Power-Practice/dp/0007350546/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1376345121&sr=8-2&keywords=talent+is+overrated
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0141036257/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1376345121&sr=8-4&keywords=talent+is+overrated
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-80-20-Principle-Achieving/dp/1857883993/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376345184&sr=8-1&keywords=80+20+principle

Another thing... travel as much as you can, if you can get paid for it and it's related to what you love then all the better.