General > General Technical Chat
[No]Should I design an inverter?
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NiHaoMike:

--- Quote from: blueskull on June 27, 2016, 01:41:12 am ---For the sake of noise and cost. I only intend to run my PC and monitors, which has maximum consumption of 450W combined when crunching numbers or running video games. For most of the time, the total system consumes less than 150W.

--- End quote ---
Since you're only running electronics, DC most likely is all you need. Assemble the DC/DC part of your design first and if it works, call it done!
TerraHertz:

--- Quote from: mtdoc on June 27, 2016, 02:19:38 am ---
--- Quote from: TerraHertz on June 27, 2016, 12:33:49 am ---But for home power, it annoys me that the standard grid-tied no-battery solar panel installation inverters seem to all be designed to deliberately be impossible to adapt to stand-alone battery storage operation. And systems that are designed to run in isolation with batteries, don't seem to have provision for agile grid connect/disconnect.

--- End quote ---

Not true at all.  Outback Power, Schneider Electric, Magnum, SMA, and others all sell such inverters.

--- End quote ---

Others might find useful the result of an hour I've spent hunting up those companies and distributors and reading their advertising.
---------
http://www.outbackpower.com/
17825 59th Ave. NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223 USA
OutBack Australia: Suite 2 32-34 Peter Brock Drive, Eastern Creek NSW 2766
Phone: +61 (2) 8599 6960
   They call it grid-tied partial state of charge (PSoC)


http://www.schneider-electric.com.au
  Urrgh. over-complex website, doesn't work even with firefox. Can't get to details of inverter systems.


http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/
http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/renewable-energy-products/
 NE USA only. Not much for international market. Can't find any grid-tie partial...


http://www.sma-australia.com.au/
Headquarters: Niestetal, Germany
Global presence: sales and service subsidiaries in 20 countries
Australian Authorised Distributors:

  RFI SOLAR Tel. 1300 000 734           http://rfisolar.com.au/
     99 Station Rd, Seven Hills  NSW 2147

  Sol Distribution  Tel. 1300 660 483   http://sol-distribution.com.au/
     Unit 14, 39 Herbert Street, St Leonards NSW 2065

  Solar Juice   Tel. +612 9725 1111     http://www.solarjuice.com.au/
     Unit 1, 10-12 Forsyth Close, Wetherill Park, 2164 NSW

  Solar + Solutions  Tel. 1300 255 410  http://solarsps.com.au/
     456 Lower Heidelberg Rd,  Heidelberg VIC 3084


More inverter manufacturers:
ABB
ZeverSolar Evershine TLC8000 - 3 Phase, Dual MPPT
Kstar
---------

Just starting a file. As for the original question of flexible grid connection, it seems now there are some. Still not many; most are still either grid-tied or independent. And good luck trying to find any technical details on _any_ commercial inverter.

I still say there's a need for an open-source project here.
mtdoc:

--- Quote from: TerraHertz on June 27, 2016, 06:52:07 am ---
--- Quote from: mtdoc on June 27, 2016, 02:19:38 am ---
--- Quote from: TerraHertz on June 27, 2016, 12:33:49 am ---But for home power, it annoys me that the standard grid-tied no-battery solar panel installation inverters seem to all be designed to deliberately be impossible to adapt to stand-alone battery storage operation. And systems that are designed to run in isolation with batteries, don't seem to have provision for agile grid connect/disconnect.

--- End quote ---

Not true at all.  Outback Power, Schneider Electric, Magnum, SMA, and others all sell such inverters.

--- End quote ---

Others might find useful the result of an hour I've spent hunting up those companies and distributors and reading their advertising.
---------
http://www.outbackpower.com/
17825 59th Ave. NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223 USA
OutBack Australia: Suite 2 32-34 Peter Brock Drive, Eastern Creek NSW 2766
Phone: +61 (2) 8599 6960
   They call it grid-tied partial state of charge (PSoC)
--- End quote ---


The term normally used is "Grid Interactive" aka "Grid tie with battery backup"

I'm most familiar with Outback products.

Their Radian line is their flagship grid interactive capable inverter/charger. I suspect it can be adapted to non-North American power specs but I haven't investigated.

]Here is a listing of their all their North American market (60Hz) grid interactive units

The do have inverters for the international market - 50Hz etc. This page has some and I believe there are others available as well.  I'd call Outback Australia.

There is full documentation of specs and manuals for each inverter linked on that website. They also have an active user's forum

They make high quality inverters and have a reputation for excellent customer service - which I've had first hand experience with in the past.  This may have changed in recent years - since they were acquired by the "alpha group".





--- Quote from: TerraHertz on June 27, 2016, 06:52:07 am ---
http://www.schneider-electric.com.au
  Urrgh. over-complex website, doesn't work even with firefox. Can't get to details of inverter systems.
--- End quote ---

Yeah - Schnieder bought Xantrex a few years ago and took over their inverter line.  Their venerable XW line was a top grid interactive capable inverter for years. Now updated and called the "Context XW"

You can find details here. Click on one and under the details tab is documentation.  I believe these can be programmed to international 50Hz output and voltages.


--- Quote ---http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/
http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/renewable-energy-products/
 NE USA only. Not much for international market. Can't find any grid-tie partial...
--- End quote ---

Yeah, my bad. I'd thought Magnum had a grid interactive model. They do make good off grid inverters.


--- Quote ---http://www.sma-australia.com.au/
Headquarters: Niestetal, Germany
Global presence: sales and service subsidiaries in 20 countries
Australian Authorised Distributors:

  RFI SOLAR Tel. 1300 000 734           http://rfisolar.com.au/
     99 Station Rd, Seven Hills  NSW 2147

  Sol Distribution  Tel. 1300 660 483   http://sol-distribution.com.au/
     Unit 14, 39 Herbert Street, St Leonards NSW 2065

  Solar Juice   Tel. +612 9725 1111     http://www.solarjuice.com.au/
     Unit 1, 10-12 Forsyth Close, Wetherill Park, 2164 NSW

  Solar + Solutions  Tel. 1300 255 410  http://solarsps.com.au/
     456 Lower Heidelberg Rd,  Heidelberg VIC 3084


--- End quote ---

The SMA Sunny Island it their grid interactive model. It is high quality.


--- Quote ---More inverter manufacturers:
ABB
ZeverSolar Evershine TLC8000 - 3 Phase, Dual MPPT
Kstar
---------

--- End quote ---

I have no knowledge of any of those manufacturers.

One I forgot to mention is Victron Energy They are a Dutch company that do not market in the US much but they make high quality inverters - some of which are grid interactive I believe.


--- Quote ---I still say there's a need for an open-source project here.

--- End quote ---

I agree - it would be great to have that as well.
nctnico:

--- Quote from: blueskull on June 27, 2016, 01:41:12 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 27, 2016, 01:02:40 am ---Why not just get a small generator set? An alternator in a car doesn't work very well at idle speeds.

--- End quote ---
For the sake of noise and cost. I only intend to run my PC and monitors, which has maximum consumption of 450W combined when crunching numbers or running video games. For most of the time, the total system consumes less than 150W.

--- End quote ---
Modern  small generators are very quiet.
NiHaoMike:

--- Quote from: nctnico on June 27, 2016, 05:11:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: blueskull on June 27, 2016, 01:41:12 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 27, 2016, 01:02:40 am ---Why not just get a small generator set? An alternator in a car doesn't work very well at idle speeds.

--- End quote ---
For the sake of noise and cost. I only intend to run my PC and monitors, which has maximum consumption of 450W combined when crunching numbers or running video games. For most of the time, the total system consumes less than 150W.

--- End quote ---
Modern  small generators are very quiet.

--- End quote ---
Is there one that would be efficient at just 150W load? Granted, leaving a car idling won't be efficient either, but that only needs to be run part time with the help of a deep cycle battery. (Or use some other source, such as solar panels, to charge it.) 100Ah class deep cycle batteries can be found for under $100 and with the 50% derating, will run 150W of load for 4 hours.
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