Poll

Should the EEVblog Forum go private? (i.e. no longer web searchable)

Yes
6 (6.5%)
No
71 (76.3%)
Unsure
16 (17.2%)

Total Members Voted: 92

Author Topic: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?  (Read 3892 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline coppercone2

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11340
  • Country: us
  • $
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2023, 09:47:20 pm »
and I think maybe, if it can help, its not much different then turning off the lights of a city to reduce attack until some progress is made. It is a situation that is ongoing... and nothing is inevitable imo, I don't want to fall into dogma of AI being inevitable, maybe its not, to the disappointment of the financial backers. Dave jones makes a fair point that it is a time sensitive defensive situation.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2023, 09:49:53 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline ogden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3731
  • Country: lv
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2023, 09:48:11 pm »
How do you determine that a human poster here is a sentient being? That's not as easy as I would have hoped.
This is exactly my point - that security/authenticity of current internet is insufficient. I am very concerned that literally anybody can get "unfiltered" advice.
 

Offline fourfathom

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2005
  • Country: us
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2023, 09:54:09 pm »
How do you determine that a human poster here is a sentient being? That's not as easy as I would have hoped.
This is exactly my point - that security/authenticity of current internet is insufficient. I am very concerned that literally anybody can get "unfiltered" advice.

Are you very concerned that literally anybody can get bad advice from a human posting here?  It happens. 

What we do here is debate and explain, and digress and show off, but eventually the bad advice is replaced by good advice.  The same thing is going to happen with AI-generated advice.
We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.
 

Offline Dr. Frank

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2440
  • Country: de
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2023, 09:56:06 pm »
I'm an absolute fan of 'Blade Runner'.

If there would be a liability for an identification of AI created posts, no problem.
Otherwise - 'you'll never know' - just kill them.
Frank

Btw.: Would a private forum prevent AI from entering, anyhow?
I already have difficulties with some human users here, to distinguish real electronic experience from pure baloney, like simply replicating threads/knowledge from other users, evidently w/o any own experimental background.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 12:11:00 am by Dr. Frank »
 

Offline RoGeorge

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7012
  • Country: ro
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2023, 09:58:59 pm »
I think the forum should stay visible.  For example, I've found out about the EEVblog forum after Google Search popped a few very good threads from EEVblog, and after heaving the nice surprise to not be coerced to register for a click on a JPG and a 20kB download.

Nobody knows yet how to deal with ChatGPT bots.  :-//

Maybe add some more human-verification tests for new accounts, or do like other forums where the first 10 posts or the first 3 days (whichever comes first) will become visible only after a moderator approval.  Though, this would probably need much more than 3 moderators to cover 24/7 human approval for newcomer's posts.

Responsible moderators are hard to find.  My advice would be to make generic Moderator1 .. ModeratorN accounts, and keep those separated from the current username, so the moderators can come and go without altering their presence as normal users.  Otherwise, in time they'll get hard fillings.

Most of all, tell the new mods that they are to guard against vandalism only, i.e. against chat bots, and not to establish the technical correctness of a post.  If a moderator thinks it should be 2k2 and not 1k2, then use the normal username to comment about technical solutions.  Mods accounts must by used for administrative tasks only.

Offline ogden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3731
  • Country: lv
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2023, 10:12:50 pm »
Are you very concerned that literally anybody can get bad advice from a human posting here?  It happens. 
I am concerned that AI will help stupid to look smart.
 

Offline julian1

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 773
  • Country: au
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2023, 10:13:12 pm »

A question, is whether forum posts and content, should be allowed to be used as training data, to be reused by chat-gpt shells for private or public use.

For search there is already a customary machine-interface protoctol - robots.txt used to determine the scope of content that can be accessed for indexing and archiving.

But a prominent human-written statement outlining the terms of use to access this site and content, would likely be respected and be enforceable (even against a user/indexer not having a forum account).

What are other technical forums doing in response?

The organizational origin and purpose of open-AI, is a bit unclear. 
They formed as a charitable organization with an intent to release open-source software. But subsequently pivoted to a regular corp structure, and now develop in isolation/closed-source.


 

Offline coppercone2

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11340
  • Country: us
  • $
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2023, 10:14:00 pm »
is anyone worried about replicators ?
 

Offline ogden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3731
  • Country: lv
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2023, 10:22:48 pm »
is anyone worried about replicators ?
Please explain replicators, in details.
 

Offline xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7836
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2023, 10:31:07 pm »
I think I'm going to review the Terminator movies this weekend.  :-\
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
The following users thanked this post: pcprogrammer

Offline Bicurico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1816
  • Country: pt
    • VMA's Satellite Blog
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2023, 10:35:47 pm »
This is certainly Dave's attempt for an elaborate April's fool joke.

I don't care for any AI learning with this forum and if there are AI replies, that's fine, too, as long as they are useful. They should be flagged as such, though, I guess.

Close the forum? That doesn't make any sense. The AI would just register as a human...
 
The following users thanked this post: karpouzi9

Offline wilfred

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1388
  • Country: au
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2023, 12:18:54 am »
This is certainly Dave's attempt for an elaborate April's fool joke.

I wouldn't say it was elaborate at all. But I think it was an intentional way to distract from the Dilbert et.al. threads. Which seems to have worked very well.

I wonder if he asked chatGPT "how can I stop nonsense being posted in the Dilbert thread?" And chatGPT responded "Start a new thread about something else."

I just can't see chatGPT being the biggest blight on this forum. But, only a single unsure response in the poll says the responses are not representative at this stage. I think most are still on the fence about AI and whether or not they will be a net benefit or a real problem.

Someone else post about letting a pair of chatGPT bots argue amongst themselves, which had occurred to me too. It was postulated (in jest) that they would go on for hundreds of posts but I think they will converge on the same argument and agree if they are both using the same dataset for knowledge. Still think that would be their downfall if there was a bot uprising.
 

Offline Dr. Frank

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2440
  • Country: de
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2023, 12:26:23 am »
is anyone worried about replicators ?
Please explain replicators, in details.
Replicants... Watch 'Blade Runner '
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 12:28:34 am by Dr. Frank »
 

Offline Tomorokoshi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1212
  • Country: us
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2023, 01:10:05 am »
is anyone worried about replicators ?
Please explain replicators, in details.
Replicants... Watch 'Blade Runner '

Sore wa sehr interessant, dark, and mul.
 

Offline Tomorokoshi

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1212
  • Country: us
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2023, 01:27:52 am »
I voted "no".

On occasion, when searching for something that it didn't occur to me to search for in EEVblog, a hit comes up to EEVblog that is more detailed, relevant, and useful than any of the other hits.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 22436
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2023, 03:16:06 am »
No, but an automatic check feature would be nice -- "this post flagged as xx% likely AI generated" or a "check this on IsPostAIGenerated.com".

I suppose it'll be some months (years?) before such a service trickles down to a forum plugin (and/or is affordable enough at scale?), but, well, to say I can envision such a feature I guess.

I would guess it needn't be burdensome on the server(s) if it's just an async request and the result gets chucked into the database (post has not been reviewed / post reviewed as x).  And maybe a button to queue a recheck / increase priority, but not actually force a request since that would be easily abused.  Or maybe by then, a suitable IDing model will be available that runs on the server without slowing things much.

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Online ejeffrey

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4034
  • Country: us
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2023, 05:28:49 am »
I've been a regular form user for over a decade, but I still often follow search results here.  Having the form private would be a pretty big negative impact for me.  The forum search is... bad to terrible, and even if it wasn't, I don't want to separately search multiple forums and stack exchange.

Also, as someone who does provide answers to questions free of charge here and other places, I don't really care if AI bots ingest that and then spit it back to other people.  It's not a business for me, and if a computer program can organize what I said along with others and make it more useful and accessible that's fine with me.  This depends on the nature of the form -- like if this were a photography or creative writing forum where people were soliciting feedback on their craft I would 100% make it private to avoid that being ingested into GPT-N.  But a forum primarily focused around providing information and knowledge doesn't seem like it should get locked up.

In the other poll I am in favor of banning AI posts, just not making the foum members only.
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14

Online EEVblogTopic starter

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 39026
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Should the EEVblog Forum go private to prevent the robot uprising?
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2023, 10:01:20 am »
Might as well lock this thread as the discussion should move to the bot banning thread.
 
The following users thanked this post: MK14


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf