Author Topic: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands  (Read 38446 times)

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Offline MarkS

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #175 on: September 03, 2017, 02:51:49 am »
...snip...

So, basically, what you're saying is that this overpriced and gimped piece of junk was needed because people are too stupid and/or lazy to select good pieces of fruit to squeeze themselves?

If you're going to design a GOOD IoT device, it needs to have a fall-back mode where without the internet or the company existing any more, it's still perfectly usable for the most part.

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Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #176 on: September 03, 2017, 07:19:30 am »
...Calibration...
...Convenience...
...scheduled deliveries...

I think perhaps you've misunderstood the technical implementation of the product.

Suppose you think there is value in having a juice pack squeezed with a certain pressure for a certain amount of time. Personally I can't believe it's that big a deal, but I've nothing against anyone who can taste a difference and has a preference one way or the other. That's up to them.

The Juicero packs contain a QR code which is unique to each one. There is no technical reason whatsoever why that code couldn't contain, say, "press at 70% of full power for 20 seconds", which would tell the machine absolutely everything it needs to know to deliver the optimum end product.

But they don't, though. What they contain is "this is pack serial #12345678", and the machine has to contact a server with this ID to get a response back. That response contains the calibration data, and much more importantly, a 'yes / no' flag as to whether or not the machine is permitted to use that pack at all.

The features which benefit the owner of the machine could have been (trivially) made to work with no network connection. The only reason for needing a network connection is to enforce total dependency on the manufacturer's consumables, and to lock out competition.

Online madires

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #177 on: September 03, 2017, 10:37:48 am »
Yep, Juicero's business model was: complete vendor lock-in and full control of devices = profit
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #178 on: September 03, 2017, 10:50:41 am »
"This is a machine aimed at vegetarian and vegan people.
They do not have the strength to squeeze those bags themselves. "

Veggies maybe, but Vegans are semi-cyborg. They might only be 3ft tall, but don't even think about arm-wresting one of 'em.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #179 on: September 03, 2017, 12:11:23 pm »
On their website they boast of selling "over a million Produce Packs" (they don't call them juice packs, because, well, they're still too wrapped up and taken in by their own marketing wank).

Aside from income from selling the machines and subscriptions, they also had $120m of a bunch of gullible VC fools' money, including Google. So, a million juice packs, $120m investment, that's of the order of about $120 per drink. Nice.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #180 on: September 03, 2017, 08:21:08 pm »
On their website they boast of selling "over a million Produce Packs" (they don't call them juice packs, because, well, they're still too wrapped up and taken in by their own marketing wank).

Aside from income from selling the machines and subscriptions, they also had $120m of a bunch of gullible VC fools' money, including Google. So, a million juice packs, $120m investment, that's of the order of about $120 per drink. Nice.

I'd like to think at least some of them came with top-shelf vodka.
 

Online Gyro

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #181 on: September 04, 2017, 05:41:47 pm »
From the BBC news site today, plus a few other failed startups...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41148663
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Offline CopperCone

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #182 on: September 04, 2017, 08:03:53 pm »
thats a problem with the sales people, the product can easily be reprogrammed.

the only thing that can be said, is that the system of using a serial number inhibits adulteration and counter fitting.

Perhaps this 'function' has more of a use if you are a prince in the 1500's


I never argued that the requirements for this product having a high utility are rather bizarre, but they exist.

MarkS, I can say that about anything. People are too stupid and lazy to mash their own potatoes, people are too stupid and lazy to mix their own cleaning agents, people are too stupid and lazy to wash their hands in the bath tub (why bother having a kitchen sink and a bath tub, you can just kneel down), people are too stupid and lazy to cut metal with a hacksaw (who needs that automatic band saw)... the purpose of all technology is to make things easier and faster, but it all costs money.

i mean maybe you really like going grocery shopping, i don't know

if you do the same fucking boring ass prep job every day for 40 years it adds up. It gets frustrating. Some people like the ritual I guess. It depends on how you structure your life. I think the dishwasher is a major similarity to this thing.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 08:10:02 pm by CopperCone »
 

Offline edy

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #183 on: September 04, 2017, 09:08:52 pm »
It appears to me like a big gimmick that is designed to lock the user into using a steady stream of proprietary consumables from this Juicero company. Same as the Keurig machines and Tassimo and so on.

While something like this Delonghi Magnifica is expensive, it does not lock you into any further purchases from the company, is not connected to the Internet and allows you to do all your settings (various volumes for sizes) yourself:



This is well worth the high cost. We have one running already flawlessly for probably 6-7 years now, being used daily to make numerous coffees, espressos, capuccinos... etc. All you need to add are whole beans of your choice, any milk of your choice (if you want) and water. That's it! The periodic descaling cycle and you are good to go!

If they can make a Juicer that works like this machine, but having to do with FRUIT then it would be a winner!  :-+ Even at twice the price.

It should have:
1) NO stupid premade juice packs, just add your own RAW FRUIT
2) Easy to clean system (water reservoir to flush machine)
3) Some settings for pressure/grinding/squashing options
4) Maybe additional container to let you add milk or some other ingredients

Just like this Delonghi coffee maker, which lets you add whole beans, water and milk container optionally when making capuccinos or lattes (by the way you don't have to use milk... you can use whatever milk-like beverage you want).

The coffee machine grinds the beans, or you can add your own preground stuff (like if the hopper is filled with caffeinated beans and you want to make a decaf... you add preground decaf). With the juicer... DESIGN it so add raw whole fruits to a grinding mechanism or let you add mushy or small bits of fruits to a non-cutting entry point. Maybe even allow addition of ice so you can get it to be like a slushy!

The coffee machine puts all of the coffee into a french press-like mechanism that then gets addition of steaming hot water and then a small press with tiny holes squeezes the mixture to keep out the particles of coffee and let the liquid out into your cup. Similarly, the hydraulic pump could squeeze the fruit pulp mixture to let out different amounts of either liquid only or varying degrees of pulp.

Finally, the use of an additional container that lets you add frothed milk (in the coffee machine example) can also be employed in the Juicer design. If you want to add certain other liquids, for example milk to make your juicer make a smoothie... that can be an option.

All of this could be put together with a menu system that has presets and a book explaining what ingredients to add. Or, you can have custom programmable entries to suit your tastes... Like more or less pulpy, more or less milk or whatever. Delonghi should just make a juicer using the same principles as their coffee machine, just built for Juicing instead of Coffee.

My point is, something like the concept I explained above would use:

1) your own fresh ingredients
2) the ability to process on the intake (grind/chop/etc) or not
3) add additional liquid (like milk) if desired
4) flush the machine with water from reservoir (to clean it out)
5) custom programmable and preset options with recipe book
6) one-button press
7) easy clean up using flushing from water reservoir
8) easy disassembly for cleaning

All of those features I have with my Delonghi as it applies to Coffee. This would be a $1000 Juicer that could be built to last and definitely would be worth it to Juiceheads.

They may already have that type of machine by the way.... But Juicero was built not for rich people but for people who can't afford that type of machine. Instead, they enter that lifestyle by buying a cheaper machine at a lower price but then pay more in the long run using these proprietary juicer packs.

Seems very similar to PRINTER MARKETING.....

Used to be an expensive professional-quality printer would give you lots of options regarding ink and you pay more up-front for the machine but then save in the long run because you have full control of it and the ink it uses.

Now these days the printers are made as cheap as possible to lock you in... and allow most people who couldn't afford a good printer otherwise to get into the game. Then the companies recoup that low profit on hardware by making it up on the consumables later.

This Juicero is nothing more than a stupid marketing technique applied to yet another aspect of our lives... except in this case people finally realize what it is.
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Offline amyk

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #184 on: September 04, 2017, 11:02:47 pm »
Chinese clone without the IoT, apps, DRM, or other crap: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1793272089/juisir-juicing-without-the-cleaning

 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #185 on: September 05, 2017, 01:19:31 am »
It should have:
1) NO stupid premade juice packs, just add your own RAW FRUIT
2) Easy to clean system (water reservoir to flush machine)
3) Some settings for pressure/grinding/squashing options
4) Maybe additional container to let you add milk or some other ingredients

You mean, like a blender? Everything can even go in the dishwasher when you're finished.  :-+
 

Offline digsys

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #186 on: September 05, 2017, 02:49:43 am »
Quote from: amyk
Chinese clone without the IoT, apps, DRM, or other crap: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1793272089/juisir-juicing-without-the-cleaning   
The problem STILL is - offer #3 has ~$1000.00 for the extra bags !! Irrespective on how long you expect that to last, it's AGAIN a custom / proprietary design.
I doubt that you'd be bothered trying to make a clone. Plus a huge waste product. All because people don't want to clean a container ??? meh
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #187 on: September 05, 2017, 10:30:59 pm »
The problem STILL is - offer #3 has ~$1000.00 for the extra bags !! Irrespective on how long you expect that to last, it's AGAIN a custom / proprietary design.
I doubt that you'd be bothered trying to make a clone. Plus a huge waste product. All because people don't want to clean a container ??? meh

Thats $1000 for the 3 extra juicers, not the bags.
Its not my thing, but if they sell the cotton filters for a low price it seems reasonable. You can buy filter cloth for cheese/tofu making, so that might be usable.


Quote
- How to use the multiple-use juicing bags?
The multiple-use bags are split into two individual parts - the silicone outer bag and the 100% cotton filter. Place the cotton filter into the silicone outer bag and then follow the usual procedures. After juicing, take out the used cotton filter and discard it. The outer bag? Simply rinse it and you’re good to go again. All in all, there is no cleaning required for the machine.
- How many times can the silicone outer bags be used before it needs replacing?
A few hundred times under normal use.
 

Offline digsys

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #188 on: September 06, 2017, 12:45:13 am »
Quote from: thm_w
  ... Thats $1000 for the 3 extra juicers, not the bags.
Its not my thing, but if they sell the cotton filters for a low price it seems reasonable. You can buy filter cloth for cheese/tofu making, so that might be usable.
oops .. you're perfectly right. How would you replace the silicon pouch, if they stopped making them?
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Online xrunner

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #189 on: September 06, 2017, 01:30:01 am »
Plus a huge waste product. All because people don't want to clean a container ??? meh

Yea - but I keep seeing these things with a real glass under the exit spout. To be complete, they should show a disposable paper cup so the lack of anything to clean is complete.  :clap:
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #190 on: September 06, 2017, 05:42:07 pm »
Plus a huge waste product. All because people don't want to clean a container ??? meh

Yea - but I keep seeing these things with a real glass under the exit spout. To be complete, they should show a disposable paper cup so the lack of anything to clean is complete.  :clap:

Why don't they just coat the inside of the container with some sort of non-toxic hydrophobic coating so it never needs cleaning anyway?
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Online KL27x

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Re: Silicon Valley invests $120 Mill. in $400 juicer that works as well as hands
« Reply #191 on: September 07, 2017, 04:10:35 am »
Quote
Yea - but I keep seeing these things with a real glass under the exit spout. To be complete, they should show a disposable paper cup so the lack of anything to clean is complete.  :clap:

What if it incorporated a heat sealer and color printer. You buy rolls of plasticized aluminum to feed in one end. I think you get where this is going. Turn a big bag of fruit into a smaller bag that is basically like a freshly minted Capri-Sun.

Take it one step further, and for the non-vegetarians with average hand strength, you can incorporate the juice bag with the "produce pak." When you're ready to drink it, you open your lunch box, take out your "Juice Pak" TM, and you squeeze the produce side, filling the juice pack with fresh squeezed juice. Then you tear it off. And laugh at the poor kids drinking ghetto pre-squeezed juice.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 04:17:09 am by KL27x »
 


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