spanner bits

[R005T3r]

Alright,

After another precision bit blown up in pieces (also ticking the screw, damn spanner screws), I've decided to switch to quality ones. Unfortunately, at my local hardware store when I asked some information about "good quality bits" they told me that they can order Swiss tools ones or other brands like Maurer, Stanley, Beta ones.

Frankly, I've always had all bad experience with bits, especially with spanner sets. I want something that lasts and don't rust in 10 days. Price is not a matter. I've looked at swiss tools ones and they looked fine, but I've seen mixed reviews on the web and I don't know if they are what I'm looking for...

What would you recommend me?

Thanks.

[MosherIV]

Do you mean screw bits like these :

I am afraid that bits like these are considered 'consumable' - ie they will fail at some point
Then you have to get a replacement.

I found this out one summer working for a factory. We used pneumatic screw drivers and after a while they would shatter the tips off the screw driver bits.
The stores person told me that the bits are 'consumables' and it was expected that we would be have to get new bits regularly.

[Kremmen]

My 2 cents on bit-ology. This may be old hat but for the sake of completeness:
- Always use the right bit size. Sizes 1,2,(3) are most common and you should always match bit and screw head sizes.
- Cross heads come in Phillips and Pozidriv. Identifiable by the extra cut and small lines stamped on the screw head for Pozidriv. Never, but never mix bits and heads because they simply won't mesh properly. (the bits in the previous post are Phillips as identified by "PH" in the shank and lack of the extra vertex between the blades).

I've had the best luck with TiN coated bits that last considerably longer than uncoated. But do steer away from the "chinese gold" coated bits. Genuine TiN coat is satin gold in appearance - never a mirror smooth golden finish. Also, real TiN coat generally is limited to the business end of the bit only, not the hexagon base. Fakes are shiny gold all over. The fake material is whatever coloring was handy, but it will definitely not improve anything. Rather it is an indication that the base bit itself is probably a piece of shit as well.

I won't attempt to suggest vendors as those i use are not relevant anywhere else.

[helius]

I thought the OP was talking about these:


I may be wrong, but I don't think these types of screws can be driven with a drill since they are not self-aligning. So that may be why you are breaking bits. Their main use is to discourage end-user tampering.
Considering that, I don't see why high-quality bits are going to make much difference. It's always nice to have really good bits, but in this case you're limited by the design of the screw recess. Rust is another thing, any bits should not rust if you keep them wiped with lightweight motor oil (10W30?) and properly stored. I noticed a big problem with some of the cheap bit sets is that they are packaged in low-quality vulcanized rubber holders. This will encourage rust as the material degrades. Better to store bits in CAB or ABS holders like the good brands use.

[R005T3r]

Yes there they are: the bloody spanner screws bits.

I know that spanners screws are made to prevent tampering, but I need to unfit that screws. I'm not driving the whole thing with a drill, I'm driving them by a screwdriver, also I've noticed that the fit on the screwdriver is not particularly tight, so instead of  making more damage would it be better replacing the driver?

I've oiled the bits with Svitoil and the results were terrible...

- Always use the right bit size. Sizes 1,2,(3) are most common and you should always match bit and screw head sizes.
- Cross heads come in Phillips and Pozidriv. Identifiable by the extra cut and small lines stamped on the screw head for Pozidriv. Never, but never mix bits and heads because they simply won't mesh properly. (the bits in the previous post are Phillips as identified by "PH" in the shank and lack of the extra vertex between the blades).

I've had the best luck with TiN coated bits that last considerably longer than uncoated. But do steer away from the "chinese gold" coated bits. Genuine TiN coat is satin gold in appearance - never a mirror smooth golden finish. Also, real TiN coat generally is limited to the business end of the bit only, not the hexagon base. Fakes are shiny gold all over. The fake material is whatever coloring was handy, but it will definitely not improve anything. Rather it is an indication that the base bit itself is probably a piece of shit as well.

I won't attempt to suggest vendors as those i use are not relevant anywhere else.

For screws I use pozidriv /philips / torx / ... ... screwdrivers in the correct screw all the time and it's fine... It's just the bloody bits that give me problems! and finding some screwdrivers like spanners and other "special ones" are just very hard find.
Shiny ones are a terrible thing: already tried, rust all over the place and what's great is that if you attempt to remove rust you will end up with trowing away the bit... I still have to try tin coated ones...

[Fred27]

Why not get a reasonable quality suitable flat bladed screwdriver and dremel out the centre?

[Cerebus]

- Cross heads come in Phillips and Pozidriv.

And JIS. If it comes from Japan and looks like a Phillips head it's probably not, but JIS instead. Using a Phillips screwdriver or bit on a JIS head with any significant torque is almost guaranteed to chew the head up. Phillips heads are designed to 'cam out' on reaching torque, JIS are not - causing a Phillips screwdriver to tear out instead.

[TheSteve]

Why not get a reasonable quality suitable flat bladed screwdriver and dremel out the centre?

I like this idea - you can likely get good quality and a perfect fit.

[Silveruser]

- Cross heads come in Phillips and Pozidriv.

And JIS. If it comes from Japan and looks like a Phillips head it's probably not, but JIS instead. Using a Phillips screwdriver or bit on a JIS head with any significant torque is almost guaranteed to chew the head up. Phillips heads are designed to 'cam out' on reaching torque, JIS are not - causing a Phillips screwdriver to tear out instead.

++ for JIS and the screws are often soft brass just to add to the fun.

[nanofrog]

They're also called Snake Eye screwdrivers. Unfortunately, they're not all that common so screwdrivers are only available by a few vendors (0.25" Hex bits by a few more).

Wiha offers them in the US, labeled as Slotted Spanner Nut Drivers (didn't see them on the UK or DE sites by P/N though ).

PB Swiss does as well (PB 196 series), and at least these are available in the EU. FWIW, I own full sets in Phillips & Slotted (these are much older; pre laser etched S/N's, so pre 1992), and they've held up better than anything else I've ever laid my hands on (not a speck of rust either).

[R005T3r]

Hmm ok.. I'll take the screwdriver... Actually may be a good idea to order the entire set if the price is not prohibitive: I particularly enjoyed swiss tools screwdrivers, they are far better than others and they won't rust...

[nanofrog]

Hmm ok.. I'll take the screwdriver... Actually may be a good idea to order the entire set if the price is not prohibitive: I particularly enjoyed swiss tools screwdrivers, they are far better than others and they won't rust...

No idea if you've recessed holes, but the PB Swiss 196 series will solve that if it's an issue (or becomes one).

FWIW, the chrome plating seems to be thick (no issues with it flaking off or being worn through), and the black oxide ends also have held up well (where it's worn, there seems to be a copper/bronze plating beneath it). Regardless, there's no rust as previously mentioned. Aesthetically, they're very pleasing to the eye IMHO (my slotted have the same grips as the 196 series, but the Phillips have the more ergonomic Multicraft grips).  Both grips are comfortable and work exceptionally well in transferring torque to the screw.

I also managed to order all of mine from Germany (German eBay; i.e. search pb swiss schraubendreher). I did this as they were cheaper than US based sources. Not sure this helps, but it's certainly worth looking into IMHO, as the savings weren't trivial.   

No, I'm not a sales person of any hand tools, but PB Swiss has served me extremely well. And although they're not cheap by any means, I do think they're worth the price (doesn't stop me from hunting for bargains of course). And since I managed to find bargains, they've been a notable value in my case. 

For precision screwdrivers, I usually turn to Wiha as they've more shapes/profiles than any other quality brand I'm aware of (most of what I have, followed by PB Swiss, Moody, and misc.). Moody can be of particular interest for JIS, as they're the only one's I'm aware of that produce a JIS #000 (tried Vessel first, to no avail).

[R005T3r]

Yes, I alredy know they are not cheap by any means, but they are very good at doing it's job and don't rust as a result I don't have to wipe them with motor oil and stuff like that. I have PB screwdriver only in the "swiss handle" this one:


And it's more ergonomic than the aforementioned handle... However, who cares... I need a tool that don't break up after 2 screws...

[nanofrog]

Yes, I alredy know they are not cheap by any means, but they are very good at doing it's job and don't rust as a result I don't have to wipe them with motor oil and stuff like that. I have PB screwdriver only in the "swiss handle" this one:


And it's more ergonomic than the aforementioned handle... However, who cares... I need a tool that don't break up after 2 screws...

Unfortunately, they don't offer the spanner versions in anything other than their classic grips (just not enough volume I guess). FWIW, the Multicraft version have the same shape as the Swiss Grips, but use CAB rather than Santoprene (my Phillips are Multicraft grips; PB 6190 series). Both are easier to clean than Santoprene if/when necessary.

My slotted drivers have Classic grips (PB 100 series), and I don't have an issue with them. They're comfortable enough, and I can get sufficient torque on them for the given screw size. So I wouldn't sweat the grip shape. 

Multicraft Grip, Phillips (6190 series):


Classic Grip, Slotted (100 series):

[R005T3r]

Well, at this point I don't care about the grip. The important is that's a decent item, not the grip...At this point I think I'll make a new screwdriver order by the end of tomorrow and forget about the bits. I'm still curious if there's a difference in swisstools ones and generic ones: they are more than $20 compared to other brands so there must be a difference in quality I think... 

[PChi]

Bondhus at http://www.bondhus.com/index.html are among the best but are expensive.

[nanofrog]

At this point I think I'll make a new screwdriver order by the end of tomorrow and forget about the bits. I'm still curious if there's a difference in swisstools ones and generic ones: they are more than $20 compared to other brands so there must be a difference in quality I think...

Other than using them in a cordless drill/driver, I've lost my fondness for bits. They don't do well with recessed holes deeper than the exposed section of the bit, and they're easily lost. I do have Wiha Drive-Loc systems in both 6mm & 4mm (lets me set the depth I want, and the dimples lock it in place so it cannot slide up into the handle during use). It's also compact, so less clutter on the bench & less room required to store it (also great for field work).

As per the PB Swiss being different than the generic cheap stuff, absolutely IME.  Much better steel, tighter tolerances, proper hardening, the finishing is excellent, and they have effective QC processes in place. Seems they really take this stuff seriously, as they're the only tool maker I'm aware of that etches a S/N in every one of their tools (traceable production). In fact, the user can go to their website, and get at least some of that information by entering in a S/N (here; look to the right-hand side for the box you enter in a S/N).