Author Topic: Single person full product design  (Read 4017 times)

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Offline e100Topic starter

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Single person full product design
« on: July 11, 2023, 06:30:06 am »
Has anyone made a gadget from start to finish doing everything themselves including the mechanicals?

As an example I'm thinking of the humble LED bicycle light which on the surface appears easy but if you write out the list of requirements it's as long as your arm.
For starters it has to work in a high vibration, high humidity environment with extremes of temperature, keep the rain out, be able to be operated while wearing gloves, have a visual indicator that is visible day and night, not catch fire when dropped on the ground and so on.

Can one person do this kind of project or do you really need a team of specialists?




 

Offline mengfei

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2023, 06:42:37 am »
Nowadays a single person can have almost all the info he needs to make or build something But will  never be a master of such..

for a dedicated Product with safety features it's much better to have a Team do that although you can do it on your own, what credentials will you show/ offer? Google & youtube?  :-//
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2023, 06:47:01 am »
Shorten the long list into manageable blocks. Palm off the blocks accordingly.
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Online AndersJ

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2023, 09:06:46 am »
What does ”palm off” mean?
"It should work"
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Offline tszaboo

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2023, 09:13:40 am »
You can do it all yourself. The mechanical design software is available for free or relatively cheap. There are companies in china that will cast or injection mold parts for you if you send them a STEP file. Similarly, you can hack together a web service, software and firmware if you have general programming skills.
Should you though? I'm not proficient in most of these skills, and humble enough to turn to experts. The end result is usually cheaper and better products. I've seen too many designs recently that was finished by experts outside their expertise, and it's not pretty.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2023, 09:15:40 am »
What does ”palm off” mean?

Not to be taken literately. But essentially, I meant to hand over certain difficult portions of the project to specialists.
iratus parum formica
 
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Offline tom66

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2023, 09:21:33 am »
It's probably possible but you also need significant funds to do certain things.  For instance, injection moulding tools, can easily cost $20,000 for something small like a bike light. 

Building a product is a lot more than building just that product as well.  There is test, supply chain, marketing, etc.  If you only intend to make a one off, then you obviously don't need to worry about these, and you might be able to make everything 3D printed.
 

Offline bookaboo

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2023, 09:42:14 am »
As an aside, unless you have some killer unique feature, bike lights are a bit of a commodity. Alibaba will be full of them, then as cycling is popular in the west it already has attracted the "put everything on the internet" craze. Plenty of competition at the high end already https://seesense.cc/

But can it all be done by 1 person? Depends on the scale of the project, but if the project is small enough and you have the skill set, the fewer people involved the better.

Also plastic tooling is a bitch, I've had projects drag 4 years getting the enclosure right when the electronics were done and stable after 6 weeks. Iterations are expensive and long, consultants are expensive and usually only know their narrow field, if that.
 
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Offline m98

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2023, 11:57:13 am »
Plenty of competition at the high end already https://seesense.cc/
Just looked at their demo video, those things blink and flash like crazy. The bad light pattern is stupidly compensated by higher luminosity. That would be a great example of how not to design bike lights. State of the art can be found here: https://www.bumm.de/en/

As you can see with Busch + Müller, optics and especially the reflector design are key to a great bike light. This could either be done using commercial optics design software ($$$), or a lot of patience, the parametric surface modeling software of your choice, and a raytracer like Blender.
 
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2023, 02:00:27 pm »
Have you looked in the Work Wanted section of the forum?
iratus parum formica
 

Offline bookaboo

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2023, 02:23:18 pm »
Plenty of competition at the high end already https://seesense.cc/
Just looked at their demo video, those things blink and flash like crazy. The bad light pattern is stupidly compensated by higher luminosity. That would be a great example of how not to design bike lights. State of the art can be found here: https://www.bumm.de/en/

As you can see with Busch + Müller, optics and especially the reflector design are key to a great bike light. This could either be done using commercial optics design software ($$$), or a lot of patience, the parametric surface modeling software of your choice, and a raytracer like Blender.

Was just the first example that came to mind as they are based not far from me, I wouldn't know which end of a bike points forward as I prefer running :)
 

Offline e100Topic starter

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2023, 03:30:04 pm »
I thought I would add some more context to my question.

My theory is that consumer lights are purposely designed to fail after a year or two, so you have to buy a new one on a regular cycle.
My goal is to make something that isn't plagued by obvious design flaws.

For example, the normal way to cover an unused electrical port on a normal bit of outdoor electrical gear is to have a screw cap and O ring seal that looks something like this
https://www.newark.com/productimages/standard/en_US/5064788.jpg

Rechargeable bike lights don't use this obvious solution. Instead they use this



A silicone rubber bung and weak lanyard that is engineered to fail after 18 months. Once the bung is lost water gets in and the light fails within a few days.

Another example, the 18650 lipo cells commonly used in bike lights have a usable life of about 2 years but few lights are designed with replaceability in mind. The manufacturer wants you to throw the light in the garbage and buy a new one. I had to follow this tortuous tutorial to replace a battery in a light which is actually one of the better ones available.



And then there are the issues of the inappropriate beam patterns, problems blinding oncoming drivers, flashing modes that make no sense and so many usability issues tied up with a single button interface that is trying to do everything demanded by the marketing department. It's just a mess.
 

Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2023, 06:11:26 pm »
There is no simple answer to this.  At one level the answer is no.  No individual will be able to manufacture lamps, batteries and the other components of even a relatively simple device like a bike light.  On the other hand I have no doubt that an individual can design and build a bike lite that is superior by many metrics to most of not all such devices on the market.  But it will require quite some time, and intense learning in areas new to the individual.   And I unless the individual is unusually well off financially will be unable to develop tooling and other necessities to make the result price competitive.
 

Offline Microdoser

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2023, 09:57:28 pm »
Well, you've picked a cheap product that has to work reliably in a very unforgiving environment. On top of that, it's a market that has a high saturation with plenty of alternatives. Also, it is really hard for a new brand to sell reliability and trustworthiness. New startups are better off selling innovation and unique solutions.
 
Personally, if I wanted to make and sell a product all by myself, I would look for a problem with no readily available solution, ideally one I have experience of, in an underrepresented market. Sometimes it's an unavailable interface between this and that, sometimes it's a new and better way of doing something, sometimes there is hardly anyone making a thing. Whatever, you should find a niche in the marketplace where a fresh product has a chance. Ideally, one where you can charge a reasonable price per unit, so it's worth your time. Incremental advances on existing products are a dead end for a new startup.
 
Back to the question of if it's possible, though. Yes, you can design circuits on paper. You can get free PCB design software and make your Gerbers. You can get small boards delivered for £10. You can solder them by hand. You can get a free 3D CAD program and make a Step or 3MF file, so you can 3D print enclosures at home. If you want something mass-produced and made by other people, then first get £100,000 in funding.
 
So while it's completely possible to be a 1-man band these days and get something out there that might get you some funds to do things properly. I would pick a different product, though. You said it yourself, "The manufacturer wants you to throw the light in the garbage and buy a new one" and for the average consumer, that is what they expect. They would rather spend 50% on a light they have to replace every year than 100% on one that will last 5 years. The manufacturers know it too.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2023, 10:05:20 pm »
If the product is not too complex, of course you can.

But if you are alone *and* are able to complete the product design and manufacturing all by yourself, chances are that you won't be as good with the marketing side of things, and a product is not worth much if you can't sell it. Just a thought.

 

Offline Microdoser

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2023, 10:21:18 pm »
If the product is not too complex, of course you can.

But if you are alone *and* are able to complete the product design and manufacturing all by yourself, chances are that you won't be as good with the marketing side of things, and a product is not worth much if you can't sell it. Just a thought.

Indeed, although the original question was whether a single person could make a gadget. I completely agree that the person that could make it, probably couldn't sell it successfully.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 10:23:09 pm by Microdoser »
 

Online abeyer

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2023, 10:26:23 pm »
Indeed, although the original question was whether a single person could make a gadget. I completely agree that the person that could make it, probably couldn't sell it successfully.

100% this -- making is the "easy" part, the need to make a profitable (or even sustainable) business out of it moves everything up to hard mode. That's true even more so if you are trying to make a business of competing with cheap stuff where your differentiation is quality. People have shown that no matter how much they "prefer" quality, statistically they will buy whatever is the cheapest option that isn't complete garbage.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 10:30:43 pm by abeyer »
 
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Offline Bud

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2023, 10:27:15 pm »
Making will be a very slow process, as you need to learn several design tools and manufacturing processes. As well as deal with finance and logistics. Not even talking about marketing, sales and after sales support.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2023, 10:37:06 pm »
There is no simple answer to this.  At one level the answer is no.  No individual will be able to manufacture lamps, batteries and the other components of even a relatively simple device like a bike light.  On the other hand I have no doubt that an individual can design and build a bike lite that is superior by many metrics to most of not all such devices on the market.  But it will require quite some time, and intense learning in areas new to the individual.   And I unless the individual is unusually well off financially will be unable to develop tooling and other necessities to make the result price competitive.
The topic is about design, not manufacturing  ;D

IMHO it is very possible to design a bike light (mechanics + electronics) as these are relatively simple devices and contrary to other suggestions you don't want to make it water tight. With manufacturing in Asia getting the costs low enough is no problem. However, design and manufacturing efforts are meaningless without the ability to actually sell the product (as others already noted as well).

And where it comes to bike lights: don't use the ones on batteries as batteries just suck. Get a Shimano hub  for your front wheel with an integrated alternator and run the lights from there. It simply works always.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 10:41:44 pm by nctnico »
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Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2023, 01:13:24 am »
There is no simple answer to this.  At one level the answer is no.  No individual will be able to manufacture lamps, batteries and the other components of even a relatively simple device like a bike light.  On the other hand I have no doubt that an individual can design and build a bike lite that is superior by many metrics to most of not all such devices on the market.  But it will require quite some time, and intense learning in areas new to the individual.   And I unless the individual is unusually well off financially will be unable to develop tooling and other necessities to make the result price competitive.
The topic is about design, not manufacturing  ;D

IMHO it is very possible to design a bike light (mechanics + electronics) as these are relatively simple devices and contrary to other suggestions you don't want to make it water tight. With manufacturing in Asia getting the costs low enough is no problem. However, design and manufacturing efforts are meaningless without the ability to actually sell the product (as others already noted as well).

And where it comes to bike lights: don't use the ones on batteries as batteries just suck. Get a Shimano hub  for your front wheel with an integrated alternator and run the lights from there. It simply works always.

English is a wonderful language which allows us to read the same things very differently.  I would also submit that design and manufacturing are intimately related, even if you don't physically participate in the build.  A useful knowledge of the manufacturing process capabilities and characteristics is necessary to do a proper design.  As I said, we agree that it is possible for a single individual to do a design of bike light level of complexity.

Your opinions on a proper bike light design differ from others.  That is the beauty of a market.  Successful sales indicate correct decisions, and also note that different approaches can succeed.  You just won't buy the ones that don't suit your fancy.
 

Offline Infraviolet

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2023, 05:49:52 am »
Full-stack development of a prototype by one person is very feasible, I'd argue a lot of us on this forum effectively do it already.

I'm not sure one person's expertise would be enough to go from a full working, finalised in virtually every sense, device to mass manufacture and sales though. I doubt there are many examples of single individuals knowing everything needed to make a product AND then everything needed to scale up to mass manufacturing (which sometimes requires changes to the product simply for improving the practicality of manufacturing steps, even when these don't d anything to iprove the performance or reliability above what the prototype achieved) AND then everything needed to successfully market the product and turn a profitable businss from it.
 

Offline EEEnthusiast

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2023, 06:15:34 am »
I have built a couple of products single-handedly. The tasks included the schematics, PCB layout (KiCAD), PC GUI development, BOM procurement, mechanical design, box assembly, marketing and sales , website design. The only thing i did not go myself was the PCB assembly, which was quite complicated.

You can search for "IOT power profiler" ZS2102A and ZS1100A. I took a break from work and was sitting idle at home. Had all the time in the world to do al of these in about a year's time.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 04:45:12 am by EEEnthusiast »
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Offline peter-h

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2023, 06:54:39 am »
Quote
Has anyone made a gadget from start to finish doing everything themselves including the mechanicals?

Yes, hundreds of products since 1978 :)

Your bike light examples are just incompetent design. Like USB connectors for charging, which let water in (I solve those by inserting a short USB cable into it and epoxy-ing all around the plug entry point, and let the cable dangle).

Actually, making plastic parts which snap together properly is a real tricky process. The rules are well documented but still lots of people do it badly.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 07:47:12 am by peter-h »
Z80 Z180 Z280 Z8 S8 8031 8051 H8/300 H8/500 80x86 90S1200 32F417
 
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Offline armandine2

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2023, 07:23:02 am »
I watched one of IanScott Johnston's YouTube videos the other night - looked to me like he does pretty much everything  :clap:

« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 06:22:19 pm by armandine2 »
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Offline nigelwright7557

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Re: Single person full product design
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2023, 07:53:43 am »
I work for myself and do everything from circuit design, embedded software, pc software, design pcb's, build up pcb's and test/fix final pcb.
A little variety makes the job more interesting.

 


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