EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

General => General Chat => Topic started by: mgscheue on August 14, 2019, 02:21:37 pm

Title: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: mgscheue on August 14, 2019, 02:21:37 pm
So how does this thing work? My guess is that it doesn't, despite the "secret sauce" claims:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it?fbclid=IwAR3dZWcj6f9gymh3XCkmibI5n9u7lYp38EJ4wi1VegM_ApuCwR8Gae1Y5FU (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it?fbclid=IwAR3dZWcj6f9gymh3XCkmibI5n9u7lYp38EJ4wi1VegM_ApuCwR8Gae1Y5FU)
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: StillTrying on August 14, 2019, 03:14:25 pm
2 reels of cable inside the sliding part, is about the only way.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 03:19:00 pm
Does it maybe use induction in some way?
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: mgscheue on August 14, 2019, 03:21:57 pm
I thought that might be the case, too, but would that work at the implied power levels? It lists guitar amps, studio strobes, and small appliances as suggested uses.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: wraper on August 14, 2019, 03:24:29 pm
2 reels of cable inside the sliding part, is about the only way.
Yep, but there is no space for that. So this is scam.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 03:29:12 pm
Looking closely at the video it does look like one wire passing through the device as the same bump in the cord going in comes out in the same place on the other end. We don't know whether that's a working model though.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: mgscheue on August 14, 2019, 03:31:40 pm
The video looks rather scammy to me, too. It never really shows the outlet being slid and something plugged in: you see the plug going in and the lights coming on, etc. (It looks like a very expensive, well-made video considering he's just looking for $15,000, too.)
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: wraper on August 14, 2019, 03:32:40 pm
Looking closely at the video it does look like one wire passing through the device as the same bump in the cord going in comes out in the same place on the other end. We don't know whether that's a working model though.
It's just a piece of plastic placed on the wire. The only way it could work in such size is piercing insulation by sharp needles. But there is no way it would pass any safety regulations. OK, maybe in Brazil, they have their death showers.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: mgscheue on August 14, 2019, 03:32:56 pm
Looking closely at the video it does look like one wire passing through the device as the same bump in the cord going in comes out in the same place on the other end. We don't know whether that's a working model though.

Ah, interesting. I'll look again.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: LeoTech on August 14, 2019, 03:33:38 pm
Based on how fast they appear to be able to move the thing along the line, I would say induction and not actual a physical reel of wire. But is induction really possible?

On another note, is it just me? Or where is the advantage in using this over a normal extension cord?
By using SLIDEWIRE you will have useless wires laying all over the floor and table, they will get tangled up, are annoying to look at, and you will stumble over them, what is the point?

Wouldn't a 'classic' extension cable do the same job?

Leo
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 03:34:57 pm
It's just a piece of plastic placed on the wire. The only way it could work in such size is piercing insulation by sharp needles. But there is no way it would pass any safety regulations.
"I don't know how this works so it doesn't" is a dangerous line of reasoning. It's okay to be skeptical but be careful not to express doubts as hard facts. Safety regulations will be interesting whether it's spools, induction or piercing.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: mgscheue on August 14, 2019, 03:35:17 pm
It's just a piece of plastic placed on the wire. The only way it could work in such size is piercing insulation by sharp needles. But there is no way it would pass any safety regulations.

Stuffing it under a couch cushion, like they show, definitely does not seem like a good idea... .
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: onesixright on August 14, 2019, 03:36:21 pm
Another useless product. I mean I never and I mean never ever thought 'wow' I need to move the socket  :palm:

A solution to a problem that does not exists (imo). Never the less, interesting how it works.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 03:38:33 pm
Another useless product. I mean I never and I mean never ever thought 'wow' I need to move the socket  :palm:

A solution to a problem that does not exists (imo). Never the less, interesting how it works.
A large proportion of the popular products on the market seem useless to me.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: onesixright on August 14, 2019, 03:40:39 pm
Another useless product. I mean I never and I mean never ever thought 'wow' I need to move the socket  :palm:

A solution to a problem that does not exists (imo). Never the less, interesting how it works.
A large proportion of the popular products on the market seem useless to me.

Yeah, that is a business model itself  |O
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: wraper on August 14, 2019, 03:42:31 pm
It's just a piece of plastic placed on the wire. The only way it could work in such size is piercing insulation by sharp needles. But there is no way it would pass any safety regulations.
"I don't know how this works so it doesn't" is a dangerous line of reasoning. It's okay to be skeptical but be careful not to express doubts as hard facts. Safety regulations will be interesting whether it's spools, induction or piercing.
Are you advocating for all those nano graphene particle pixie dust scams which work on unknown principle? There is enough space to simply pass a wire, no space for spool or anything. Induction is simply not possible if you think 3 seconds about it.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: JamesAllen on August 14, 2019, 04:05:33 pm
$50/£41 is too much for something that already exists. If I need an extension board, I go to any DIY store and pay £10 for one.

This smells to much like bull to be able to be a viable product.

Sorry

Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: StillTrying on August 14, 2019, 04:27:09 pm
2 reels of cable inside the sliding part, is about the only way.
Yep, but there is no space for that. So this is scam.

Slider Pod Size: 140mm x 48mm

They seem to have left a dimension off the specs.

They're creating a Carbon fiber version, if only they thought of using nano fibers and graphene.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: wraper on August 14, 2019, 05:07:37 pm
Are you advocating for all those nano graphene particle pixie dust scams which work on unknown principle? There is enough space to simply pass a wire, no space for spool or anything. Induction is simply not possible if you think 3 seconds about it.
This isn't a "nano graphene particle" product. It's an extension cord. You're extrapolating way too much from way too little. we're also definitely not as brilliant as we think we are so we may be overlooking an obvious solution. Let's see what ends up being shipped.
Obvious solution such as insulation gets opened within the box and closed back once it leaves the box? The only thing other than accessing conductors within insulation is placing a lot of wire inside the box for which there is no space. Wireless power transfer within the box is simply nonsense.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: wraper on August 14, 2019, 05:09:53 pm
Note they did not even bother showing anything powered from that. Not that it's hard to fake though.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 05:15:58 pm
Obvious solution such as insulation gets opened within the box and closed back once it leaves the box? The only thing other than accessing conductors within insulation is placing a lot of wire inside the box for which there is no space. Wireless power transfer within the box is simply nonsense.
It seems you did some research and calculations. Please share them with us.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: wraper on August 14, 2019, 05:17:24 pm
Obvious solution such as insulation gets opened within the box and closed back once it leaves the box? The only thing other than accessing conductors within insulation is placing a lot of wire inside the box for which there is no space. Wireless power transfer within the box is simply nonsense.
It seems you did some research and calculations. Please share them with us.
What calculations? How much power you can salvage from insulated wire? For such wire even current transformer would not work, even if there was current flowing through the wire (in both directions nullifying already tiny effect). Not to say how do you get earth connection from that, also by induction?
BTW WTF is that USB 3.0 claim? There is only charging to begin with.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: fourfathom on August 14, 2019, 06:04:00 pm
Yeah, it has to be a vampire tap (insulation-piercing).  Probably using needle spikes, which won't cause much visible damage to the woven cover on the wire.  I don't see how the resulting holes in the actual wire insulation will comply with any safety standards, at least not after the unit is re-positioned.

And there's no way that a single-turn transformer will couple usable power at 60Hz, even if the transformer core is the full length of the case.  No calculations needed, I just know it from experience.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 06:11:39 pm
What calculations? How much power you can salvage from insulated wire? For such wire even current transformer would not work, even if there was current flowing through the wire (in both directions nullifying already tiny effect). Not to say how do you get earth connection from that, also by induction?
BTW WTF is that USB 3.0 claim? There is only charging to begin with.
What calculations? You mean to tell us your speculations presented as facts were pulled out of your ass? What a surprise.  ;D
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 06:14:39 pm
Yeah, it has to be a vampire tap (insulation-piercing).  Probably using needle spikes, which won't cause much visible damage to the woven cover on the wire.  I don't see how the resulting holes in the actual wire insulation will comply with any safety standards, at least not after the unit is re-positioned.

And there's no way that a single-turn transformer will couple usable power at 60Hz, even if the transformer core is the full length of the case.  No calculations needed, I just know it from experience.
It doesn't have to be 60 Hz though. They could convert what goes into the cable first. Maybe it's not a straight copper wire. Note that I'm not claiming it's actually induction. I'm just saying we have very little hard information and prototypes or even mock-upsaren't exactly a good indication. We can come up with hundreds of ways they haven't done it, but we don't know how they have done it or have done it at all.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: ruffy91 on August 14, 2019, 06:17:10 pm
It has a wheel to lock the tap in place and enable power. So probably a cable with tight woven insulation and vampire tap which can pierce through the insulation without permanently damaging it.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: maginnovision on August 14, 2019, 06:38:55 pm
I still agree with others, it's too small. They also need a circuit to give power for USB and looking at the shells they show, there is no room for that either of you get decent current. It seems to be another fake it to kickstart, if they do it THEN they'll try to figure it out.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 06:44:30 pm
It has a wheel to lock the tap in place and enable power. So probably a cable with tight woven insulation and vampire tap which can pierce through the insulation without permanently damaging it.
That seems the more likely solution to me for the same reason. The locking mechanism probably has a function other than just fixing the position.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: fourfathom on August 14, 2019, 06:47:15 pm
It has a wheel to lock the tap in place and enable power. So probably a cable with tight woven insulation and vampire tap which can pierce through the insulation without permanently damaging it.
That seems the more likely solution to me for the same reason. The locking mechanism probably has a function other than just fixing the position.

Yes, that's my assumption -- the locking wheel pushes the taps into the wire.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 06:49:10 pm
I still agree with others, it's too small. They also need a circuit to give power for USB and looking at the shells they show, there is no room for that either of you get decent current. It seems to be another fake it to kickstart, if they do it THEN they'll try to figure it out.
It's just a <14K goal though. Not the number I'd go for if I were inclined to fake a campaign.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Kalvin on August 14, 2019, 06:49:52 pm
Do not pee spill coffee on the cord.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: ebastler on August 14, 2019, 06:56:02 pm
It has a wheel to lock the tap in place and enable power. So probably a cable with tight woven insulation and vampire tap which can pierce through the insulation without permanently damaging it.

How the heck do they find the three wires inside that round cable?!
You wouldn't want to pierce the wrong one with your protective earth spike...
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: fourfathom on August 14, 2019, 07:02:14 pm
I still agree with others, it's too small. They also need a circuit to give power for USB and looking at the shells they show, there is no room for that either of you get decent current. It seems to be another fake it to kickstart, if they do it THEN they'll try to figure it out.

Looking at some of my wall-wart USB power plugs, I can see how they might be able to fit a couple of USB charging jacks inside that enclosure.

Assuming it's not a scam, and they sort-of know what they're doing!  I clicked on their kickstarter page and looked at the biographies of these guys.  It's all "entrepreneur" and "marketing", no "engineering" to be found.  Doesn't mean they aren't legit though.  Regardless, it's fun to think about *I* would design that thing.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: jmelson on August 14, 2019, 07:06:41 pm
Looking closely at the video it does look like one wire passing through the device as the same bump in the cord going in comes out in the same place on the other end. We don't know whether that's a working model though.
It's just a piece of plastic placed on the wire. The only way it could work in such size is piercing insulation by sharp needles. But there is no way it would pass any safety regulations. OK, maybe in Brazil, they have their death showers.
Yup, they mention the "lock wheel".  Well, it locks the outlet by piercing the cord.  Yeah, not something I'd want in my house!  See a UL, CSA or whatever certification anywhere on the thing?

Jon
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: jmelson on August 14, 2019, 07:09:20 pm

How the heck do they find the three wires inside that round cable?!
The wire is clearly not round.  And, I'm guessing there is NO GROUND wire.

Jon
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: maginnovision on August 14, 2019, 07:16:46 pm
If they're piercing the wire the reliability is going to be poor and you're unlikely to get much current out without melting something. Obviously the piercing needle would be very small to avoid outright shorting or destroying the wire. I'll be looking forward to seeing what happens.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: StillTrying on August 14, 2019, 07:24:32 pm
They say the cable is waterproof but not the slider and I think an insulation piercing that's good for 13 Amp but doesn't damage the insulation is very unlikely.

They claim to be business entrepreneurs, do they think we can't use google. :)

I think fake ATM. >:D
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: fourfathom on August 14, 2019, 07:25:34 pm

How the heck do they find the three wires inside that round cable?!
The wire is clearly not round.  And, I'm guessing there is NO GROUND wire.

Jon

The outlets have a ground socket, so I assume that the cable is flat with three wires, the ground wire in the middle.  There will be three tap pins.  No doubt they will be struggling with the pin/wire alignment problem.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: ebastler on August 14, 2019, 07:44:34 pm
My favorite bit from the Kickstarter page has nothing to do with the product, but with the founder:

[attach=1]

Hey buddy, I see where your hand is. That's "the future"?  ;)
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: maginnovision on August 14, 2019, 07:46:13 pm
My favorite bit from the Kickstarter page has nothing to do with the product, but with the founder:
(Attachment Link)
Hey buddy, I see where your hand is. That's "the future"?  ;)

That is his future.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: SiliconWizard on August 14, 2019, 07:58:16 pm
My favorite bit from the Kickstarter page has nothing to do with the product, but with the founder:
Hey buddy, I see where your hand is. That's "the future"?  ;)

 :-DD
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 14, 2019, 08:46:38 pm
Could their magic sauce be some self sealing material like some potting compounds are?
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: SiliconWizard on August 14, 2019, 08:59:31 pm
The outlets have a ground socket, so I assume that the cable is flat with three wires, the ground wire in the middle.  There will be three tap pins.  No doubt they will be struggling with the pin/wire alignment problem.

If this is how it's supposed to work, definitely. I didn't notice the cable was kind of flat at first sight, but it looks flat indeed on second look... But yes, it would be perfectly safe, no doubt. ;D
The "secret sauce" is probably just the cable sheath with a bit of 'self-healing' characteristics. I don't think I'd want this shit in my house.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: LeoTech on August 15, 2019, 01:17:35 pm
Just wondering, is it by any means possible to access some online database of safety regulations and certificates issued, to verify legitimate companies and products?

If this is possible, wouldn't it "just" be a matter of finding said certification for their product....and maybe that would reveal whether it is fake or not.

Such a database would actually be pretty neat, it would probably prevent a lot of scams.

Leo

Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 15, 2019, 02:10:04 pm
Just wondering, is it by any means possible to access some online database of safety regulations and certificates issued, to verify legitimate companies and products?

If this is possible, wouldn't it "just" be a matter of finding said certification for their product....and maybe that would reveal whether it is fake or not.

Such a database would actually be pretty neat, it would probably prevent a lot of scams.

Leo
At this stage they don't need to be certified yet.
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: Black Phoenix on August 15, 2019, 02:17:11 pm
So how does this thing work? My guess is that it doesn't, despite the "secret sauce" claims:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it?fbclid=IwAR3dZWcj6f9gymh3XCkmibI5n9u7lYp38EJ4wi1VegM_ApuCwR8Gae1Y5FU (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it?fbclid=IwAR3dZWcj6f9gymh3XCkmibI5n9u7lYp38EJ4wi1VegM_ApuCwR8Gae1Y5FU)

A solution for a problem that doesn't exists, if it's not fake...
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: StillTrying on August 22, 2019, 08:50:06 am
They've reached their goal.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it)
Quote
Our Patent Pending *Secret Sauce*

    We had to create a connection to the power wires inside the sealed, shielded cable and keep the cord in safe working condition. Also having no sign of the connection ever happening. This was the biggest challenge we overcame when creating SlideWire.
    The design of the cord and the materials used keeps your SlideWire cord sealed and safe! No matter how many times you move your Slider outlets the wires inside are safe and sound. So slide away!
    After accomplishing this we knew we had a very exciting opportunity on our hands.

SlideWire will have the well-respected UL Certification and CSA Approval.

    The amount of material between you and the copper wire inside is almost 4x thicker than standard power cords that are on the market today. Then we wrapped the cord giving even more protection and a sleek look.
    ¬∑SlideWire is more than safe, we exceed all of the safety guidelines required by UL and CSA.
     With SlideWire having so much extra protection surrounding the copper wires, it has a significantly smaller chance causing damage or fire then a traditional extension cord.

I'll believe it when I see it. :)
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: ogden on August 22, 2019, 10:23:46 am
I'll believe it when I see it. :)

Look here: https://youtu.be/ujkN2CR1tgs?t=108 (https://youtu.be/ujkN2CR1tgs?t=108)

Strange lamp that becomes lit ~1 sec after switch activation, but only first time. On second try lamp for some strange reason have nearly instant reaction time. After that you start to think why carpet, why pillows on the floor, why he plugged phone charger not in the second slider but non-sliding end of the cable :D

[edit] Also he does not say I will show prototype, but "proof of concept" instead ;)
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: StillTrying on August 22, 2019, 08:26:27 pm
I've not been able to find any UL standards for mains cables with holes in the insulation. >:D

https://www.anixter.com/en_us/resources/literature/wire-wisdom/understanding-and-identifying-ul-awm-styles.html (https://www.anixter.com/en_us/resources/literature/wire-wisdom/understanding-and-identifying-ul-awm-styles.html)
https://code-authorities.ul.com/about/buildingsafetyprograms/electrical-safety-month/ (https://code-authorities.ul.com/about/buildingsafetyprograms/electrical-safety-month/)
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: StillTrying on March 02, 2020, 05:21:48 pm
I've not been able to find any UL standards for mains cables with holes in the insulation. >:D

I thought I'd have a look to see how they were getting on after 6 months...

"There is literately nothing in the current UL list standards they can use with SlideWire; there has never been a product to accomplish what I created. At this point in the certification process, roughly 90% of products die, but because of how much the UL innovation team (which is roughly 25 people) love SlideWire... They tried to squeeze it through the cracks. However, SlideWire will have to go through the very special and expensive process of creating a new standard set for the new technology. Though this is extremely exciting, it can take up to 12 - 14 months and will cost me about $100K."

www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it/posts (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it/posts)
Title: Re: Slidewire Kickstarter
Post by: ebastler on March 02, 2020, 06:15:48 pm
Thanks for checking and posting the update here! I think the more interesting quote from their recent update is this one:

Quote
The SlideWire I launched on Kickstarter is one of three methods I patented over the course of the innovation process. It is the most complex of the three and was the first one created. The other two designs are significantly more simple in design and functionality. They also have additional features like 100 waterproof and/or supply continuous power to the outlets even when sliding. Both of these products will go through the normal testing process with UL. I have been overwhelmingly busy handling UL and also advancing the other two products.

I would have offered one of these other methods to begin with, but the fact is at the time of building this campaign, they didn't exist.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it/posts/2708626 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taylorware/slidewire-electricity-where-you-need-it/posts/2708626)

"Initiate back-pedaling sequence... now!"  ;)
Looks like they are getting ready for a bait-and-switch, and will offer to replace the Slidewire with something entirely different soon...