so I had a fire sunday morning...

[W2NAP]

So Sunday 27 Jan 2019 I had a fire at the house, started in the electronics work room.
Fire investigator says electrical fire, my guess my old weller went nuclear since nothing of it remains, but can't 100% confirm that was the cause.

This has ended up being a giant mess, everything in the house appears to be a total loss between the flame and the heavy smoke damage the place took.

I wasn't home when it started.

[Psi]

Damn!

Wake up call for the rest of us to make a master cutoff switch for lab power.
With a large neon/led so you know when it's on.
That's what i have, ya always know the lab is powered on and so remember to turn it off before going out. Also it's handy having 1 switch to power up the lab.

[Brumby]

I already have 3 such switches...
 - One for all the computer gear
 - One for my photographic lighting (For convenience, really.  One switch for multiple lights.)
 - One for my test gear

The test gear one is very rarely on when I'm not around.
When I retire at night, they are all off. 

[EEVblog]

Damn, that's terrible.
Did you have contents insurance?
What gear was typically left on all the time?

[EEVblog]

Damn!
Wake up call for the rest of us to make a master cutoff switch for lab power.
With a large neon/led so you know when it's on.
That's what i have, ya always know the lab is powered on and so remember to turn it off being going out. Also it's handy having 1 switch to power up the lab.

A typical large lab would have dozens of things turned on and in standby mode etc, I'm always surprised at the lack of electrical fires given the statistics of how much stuff is left on/standby in a typical house.

[wraper]

Did you have hot air station, model?

[amyk]

The fact that I still see recognisable equipment suggests it wasn't that bad after all... but you will have to clean the soot out of everything.

A soldering iron will still have metal parts that may survive; you can find where the fire started by examining the area of most damage.

[TerraHertz]

Well that sucks. Hope you had insurance.
You might be able to determine something about the sequence, from the damage to the wall. Presumably that plaster was removed from the wood lathes, by water-hosing? Since the timber is not charred. Also it didn't catch fire, luckily.

Are those portable benches the ones with molded plastic tops? Looks like a lesson there - don't use benches that melt and burn easily.


You have chairs identical to ours.

[BillB]

W2NAP, sorry to hear.   Glad nobody was hurt.

A typical large lab would have dozens of things turned on and in standby mode etc, I'm always surprised at the lack of electrical fires given the statistics of how much stuff is left on/standby in a typical house.

I often obsess about all the crap I've got plugged-in and/or running and also marvel that there aren't more fires, especially given the proliferation of low-quality gadgets.   

[timelessbeing]

So much of what we buy has fire retardants in it. I remember reading somewhere recently that the retardants are starting to show up in our bodies.

[W2NAP]

Damn, that's terrible.
Did you have contents insurance?
What gear was typically left on all the time?

Yeah I have insurance hard to say how that is going to play out.
as for leaving gear on I don't leave stuff on 24/7 its only turned on when in use or going to be in use and once day is done everything gets turned off.

[W2NAP]

The fact that I still see recognisable equipment suggests it wasn't that bad after all... but you will have to clean the soot out of everything.

A soldering iron will still have metal parts that may survive; you can find where the fire started by examining the area of most damage.

the equipment you see on the left, has much faceplate melt. I had a pc tower under the left table, face on that is melted down a bit. the fire was hot hot hot.
the walls in most of the house is as black as the night, heavy soot/smoke

[W2NAP]

Well that sucks. Hope you had insurance.
You might be able to determine something about the sequence, from the damage to the wall. Presumably that plaster was removed from the wood lathes, by water-hosing? Since the timber is not charred. Also it didn't catch fire, luckily.

Are those portable benches the ones with molded plastic tops? Looks like a lesson there - don't use benches that melt and burn easily.


You have chairs identical to ours.

lot of the plaster damage is from FD tearing the plaster out to make sure fire had not got on the inside of the wall. FD Investigator says fire started in the right corner. which is where the solder irons sat. (thus my thinking the weller went nuclear)

and yes hard plastic top tables. and yeah 20/20 looking back not a good idea.

FD said the fire got very very hot. it was hot enough to start melting the glass in the window back side to the pic, also melted door curtain to the left into the glass.
FD had very good response time honestly. idk exactly when the 911 call went out to FD responding to FD arrive to FD putting water on it, but from what I was told it was a good response time.
above where it started was my shelf that i used to keep parts bins, solder rolls, flux, 99% iso, ect. I guess if the iso bottle melted and began leaking the iso that could have made the fire very hot real quick since it was a full big bottle i just got some weeks ago.

[cdev]

There is a good argument for plugging one's soldering iron, hot plate, etc, all heating appliances into a countdown timer switch, so it turns itself off if its not being used.

[Red Squirrel]

Damn that sucks!  This is my worst fear, as I doubt insurance would want to cover hobby stuff like that due to it not being UL certified etc.  Unless it can be proven the fire was started by a piece of equipment that is certified, and not a project/setup.   Hopefully things play out and it can be covered. 

This reminds me I should probably have a fire suppression system in my server room.  I doubt any of that stuff would be covered if something went wrong with my UPS or something.  It's all done in a safe manner, but shit happens.

[coppercone2]

how does this kind of electrical fire propagate? What do you expect, like flames shooting out of the vent holes or something?

I have trouble imagining one of the metal-chassis test equipments catching something on fire, unless its placed on wood?

This is why I like the idea of rackmount shelving that is on wheels away from walls etc.

Is the weller a plastic bodied instrument? you mean like the chassis caught on fire (not the iron)? Can a hakko in its aluminum body still do this? I like the hakko because you can physcially disconnect the DIN connector when your done using it.

[W2NAP]

how does this kind of electrical fire propagate? What do you expect, like flames shooting out of the vent holes or something?

I have trouble imagining one of the metal-chassis test equipments catching something on fire, unless its placed on wood?

This is why I like the idea of rackmount shelving that is on wheels away from walls etc.

Is the weller a plastic bodied instrument? you mean like the chassis caught on fire (not the iron)? Can a hakko in its aluminum body still do this? I like the hakko because you can physcially disconnect the DIN connector when your done using it.

yep the wel had a hard plastic case. my smd rework station has a metal case. the smd rework the case you can still see in the rubble but we couldn't find any part of the wel minus the iron holder (metal) and the metal shaft of the iron itself. 

my guess is the wel shorted somehow (1. ac mains short or 2. on/off heat control failed and iron came on and came on full throttle) and once the plastic housing got hot enough began to melt then flame. granted I don't know for 100% so it could have been something else but that is my guess

[cvanc]

I am very sorry to hear this.  Best wishes for your recovery.

[shakalnokturn]

Ouch!

Despite the damage it looks like you got away with this quite well, the plaster held up long enough for the wood behind to not catch fire, FD must have been fast indeed.
The plastic tables I'd definitely avoid but have been working on a pinewood top for years, not really better... I do all my Li-Ion charging in a sandbox due to fire paranoia.

When buying cheap far east equipment including wall-warts, when possible "don't turn it on take it apart" and evaluate/correct the safety hazards before use. My Atten 858 hot air station will not always cut off when the handpiece is on the stand and it has been like that from new.

I hope your insurance covers as much as you can possibly squeeze out of them.

[Psi]

Did you have hot air station, model?

Hot air stations left on at night scare me, especially ones that start up from silent when you lift the handle.
Luckily most keep the fan/heater running at low power so you do actually hear them running.

[TerraHertz]

above where it started was my shelf that i used to keep parts bins, solder rolls, flux, 99% iso, ect. I guess if the iso bottle melted and began leaking the iso that could have made the fire very hot real quick since it was a full big bottle i just got some weeks ago.

Oh god... Maybe don't mention that to the insurers? They don't like the word 'accelerant.'  (Neither does the spellcheck.)

99% of my solvents are kept in a separate space from my work areas. Somewhere there is no power, and definitely nowhere near the welding, grinding and soldering equipment. In the work area I only keep very small quantities, and refill from the bulk containers when needed. 
Many liters of IPA, MEK, metho, turps, kerosene, paint...  That stuff going up is my major fear.

[Psi]

Insurers can also refuse to cover you if they think you are claiming for business related items on your home insurance policy.
A lot of them dont expect a non-business to own electronic test gear.
So be careful when talking to them, make sure you have your story straight about why you have this test gear for hobby purposes and make sure its something non-business related.

I made a point of calling them up and recording the convo when i got my policy so i could get them on record saying my test gear for hobby purposes was covered. Hopefully will never need to use it but always good to have

[coppercone2]

yes, I keep all my solvents in the seperate garage from the house, and all the aresol cans sans cleaners. Everything including the butane lighter refill.

In my lab I keep the bear minimum of alcohol in a metal container. I also don't keep any plastic boxes plugged in (the rework station is metal but I keep it unplugged and on a shelf when not in use).

The only thing plastic here is the monitor body and the clock.

If I had the money everything would be in rack-mount boxes that roll into place into a table cutout. 

I feel like terahertz about it.

[W2NAP]

Ouch!

Despite the damage it looks like you got away with this quite well, the plaster held up long enough for the wood behind to not catch fire, FD must have been fast indeed.
The plastic tables I'd definitely avoid but have been working on a pinewood top for years, not really better... I do all my Li-Ion charging in a sandbox due to fire paranoia.

When buying cheap far east equipment including wall-warts, when possible "don't turn it on take it apart" and evaluate/correct the safety hazards before use. My Atten 858 hot air station will not always cut off when the handpiece is on the stand and it has been like that from new.

I hope your insurance covers as much as you can possibly squeeze out of them.

I think 99% of the plaster damage is from the FD knocking the plaster down to make sure fire hadn't got into the walls.

Insurance is 50/50 i think, they will cover it or not. I have no idea. I rented the place so i just have rent insurance. time will tell

[W2NAP]

Insurers can also refuse to cover you if they think you are claiming for business related items on your home insurance policy.
A lot of them dont expect a non-business to own electronic test gear.
So be careful when talking to them, make sure you have your story straight about why you have this test gear for hobby purposes and make sure its something non-business related.

I made a point of calling them up and recording the convo when i got my policy so i could get them on record saying my test gear for hobby purposes was covered. Hopefully will never need to use it but always good to have

well I have rent insurance (i rented the place) as for what my insurance has told me they are just going to send a form where i have to list everything and the value. the house owner insurance investigator was out yesterday and I was with him, he knew before walking in the place i was a ham op.