General > General Technical Chat
So very much this, for tech projects as well...
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Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: tooki on October 19, 2021, 08:11:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 19, 2021, 07:35:30 pm ---I'm only saying that the world is full of ideas that were promoted, then later discovered that they weren't good.  Many were wholly evil, in fact.  Haven't you heard the old saying, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"?  In order to not be an unwitting Kharon, one has to check every single one of ones ideas before promoting them.

--- End quote ---
Well, it’s impossible to predict every unintended consequence. The important thing, the duty abrogated by so many people, organizations, etc, is to recognize when something is no longer good, and to change it.
--- End quote ---
True.  My point is, do "sufficient" checking on the idea before promoting it.  What "sufficient" is, depends on the situation, and is not the point.  I'm not asking for perfect, because perfect is impossible.

I'm only asking that the checking that is done is done before the idea is being promoted, and not after.  Step 2, not step 3.


--- Quote from: tooki on October 19, 2021, 08:11:23 pm ---USA never approved it
--- End quote ---
Oh, they actually did, in 1998, to combat multiple myeloma (in combination with dexamethasone), by inhibiting angiogenesis –– suppressing new blood vessel growth so the tumours cannot grow.  This effect of thalidomide wasn't discovered until 1994, though.  (The thalidomide tragedy occurred in 1957-1961, causing miscarriages and birth defects.)

In the case of thalidomide, those that promoted first assuming the checking was either done by others or would be done as things progressed, caused a lot of dead and deformed babies.  Those that checked first, were unharmed.

I was tempted to use tobacco products as an example, but there the companies actually checked, and decided to hide the results for decades instead of acting on them, because their massive profits were threatened.  I believe it would be wise to recognize that drug companies have the exact same incentives, but that strays a bit from the topic.

My own experience and main reason for personally objecting to promoting first and then checking/testing, is that it is ubiquitous in software, including in commercial software.  Any real testing nowadays is done by the end users, with the vendor indemnity capped at the price of the product.  Checking done by paying customers who get no recourse –– except, at best, in rare occasions, their money back.
m98:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 19, 2021, 03:36:36 pm ---Uh-nuh! It's supposed to be
* Come up with new idea
* Check whether it works
* Convince people it's good
* New idea is adopted
--- End quote ---
There is the harsh reality that without money there is nobody there to check whether something works, and without convincing there's nobody who's going to pay you to find out.
westfw:
I was particularly thinking about the "clever" "designs" that overlook numerous practical realities.  Solar Roadways.  Batterizer.  Transparent solar cells.  Hyperloop.  Etc, etc.  I can't decide whether "product design" classes where the "designer" artists seem to have no tech credentials at all are better or worse than the scammers...
T3sl4co1l:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 19, 2021, 03:36:36 pm ---Uh-nuh! It's supposed to be
* Come up with new idea
* Check whether it works
* Convince people it's good
* New idea is adoptedI could rant about the need of checking that it works before promoting it for hours.

--- End quote ---

I think the point is the original #2 is meant to be read either way, for better or for worse.

Tim
Psi:

--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on October 20, 2021, 01:19:13 am ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 19, 2021, 03:36:36 pm ---Uh-nuh! It's supposed to be
* Come up with new idea
* Check whether it works
* Convince people it's good
* New idea is adoptedI could rant about the need of checking that it works before promoting it for hours.

--- End quote ---

I think the point is the original #2 is meant to be read either way, for better or for worse.

Tim

--- End quote ---

The issue is usually that you cannot get any time/money allocated for checking if the idea is good until you convince enough people.
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