Author Topic: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????  (Read 4971 times)

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Offline GlennSprigg

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Let's get one thing clear.... I'm an 'old' bastard haha.... and so I'm probably 'biased'  :)
YOUNG people today, (say from 10 to 20 y/o), have either never had to deal will an old
'386/486' desktop computer for example, though more than likely never even HEARD of one!
However, 'computers' they were, running old versions of windows like... 3.1, Win-98, Win-Xp.

My discussion here is about the future advents since then, and why.....   BACK then, the BIGGEST problem
was hardware compatibility & DRIVERS. Not to mention a pathetic resolution from 640x480 to 1024x768.
BEYOND that, a 'Computer' was just that. a 'Computer'. We wrote 'Letters', had simple databases & spreadsheets,
along with simple graphics applications etc etc, before the start of a basic 'Internet', and networking......

Let's SKIP forward to at LEAST say 'Win-8.1' which is arguably/typically used today.....
We still used the old familiar desktop 'Icon' system, although countless MILLIONS of new & exciting 'Programs',
(now called 'Apps') abound, for EVERY scope of science/physics/maths/graphics/ that 'one' could imagine....

So WHAT's changed now, in the last year or two, with 'Windows-10'...... ??
FIRSTLY,and MOSTLY, is the 'types' of DEVICES now running such 'Operating Systems' AND 'Apps' now !!!!!!!
We now have 'Smart-Phones', and 'Tablets' what ever the brand, and now 'laptops' (the old name xx) with touch
screens....   EVERYTHING is now GEARED towards that..... For THESE devices the "Mouse" of old is finished !
We 'Touch' screens to 'Drag', 'Resize', traverse, select......, and THAT is why the new 'Default' Win-10 'Screen
looks like CRAP ! hahaha.....  They are 'Grooming' you for SIMPLE, (yet UGLY purple, blue, green etc flat 2D
'squares', because you are supposed to use your FINGERS now ! xx  on a simplified 'screen'......
THANK GOD we are 'ALLOWED' to change settings....  >:( >:(

It may surprise you that "I" am also a tech-head, and a programmer, and a web developer, though now in my 60's.
I've seen SO many 'Languages' come & go, (though still have my favorites x), but mostly being the demise of 'Flash',
Java/Javascript, and now nearly everything being done within the 'new' "HTML-5" standards......
But we digress !!!!!!!!!   The big PUSH today, is towards the TOTALLY MOBILE hardware like phones & 'tablets'.
which obviously utilize 'Touch-Screens', and there-in lies the future.  One of my 4 laptops is an Acer Aspire which I
love. It has a touch screen, and folds down like a large 'tablet'.  Best of both worlds  xx

I decided not to go into the aspect of "CLOUD" based servers, these days, either in relation to the 'APPS' themselves
often running on some 'server' these days, OR to discuss the 'portability' of our 'apps' "DATA" itself.....
However.... "COMPUTING" has changed.... and for a TEAM of Architects & Engineers etc, that's fine........
I'm still an "Old-Bastard"..... and want MY work/data, on MY computer(s), in MY home, under MY control/access.
And LIKE NOW, when I switch off from work, I pour another glass of bubbly !!! hahaha....
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 02:59:38 pm by GlennSprigg »
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2018, 03:51:50 pm »
I'm probably the worst person you could ever meet to fall within your criteria. I'm 16, and have built a 486, Pentium Pro, and Slot 1 P3. I know them in and out, and have even learned C and have been able to program for them.

As technology advances, there are better expectations. You wouldn't expect a man from the 1700's to bathe himself, but today it's mandatory on a daily, if not almost daily basis. As we get faster computers with more complex operating systems, we also encounter shithead moves from the developers who make those operating systems.

I think Windows 10 has gotten more love than Windows 8, which was panned so hard it might as well have been an omelet. I personally use Windows Server 2016 because I have an educational license, and I find it's Windows 10, just without all the bullshit.

Even as a 16 year old squirt, it pains me to hear that Windows XP is now considered "old" as I damn well know it's not old (I still use it on one of my machines today). I actually derive quite a lot of enjoyment working with legacy hardware, though. It's an interesting world I was never around for, but I can now catch up on.

I coined a saying for myself. Life is like walking into a room after a massive argument went down, and you have no idea what it was all about. You have to pick up the pieces and figure out what happened before you entered the room.
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Offline senso

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2018, 04:15:44 pm »
Win XP is was released in 2001, if you have 16 years, XP is older than you!

If you dont consider an OS old when it has 17 years, an OS that was launched at the time of DDR2 and AGP and expect it to be maintained in hardware totally different, we now have more RAM tipically in a cheapo-ish system than that OS usually saw as an HDD, I still remember having a 20GB HDD and 256MB of RAM, my work laptop has 16GB of RAM, my personal one 32GB.

Thats an OS made on the times of single and dual core systems, throw a Coffee Lake or a Ryzen and it will see a lot more than that..

Its "old", because it IS OLD, its discontinued and there are no more security updates for it, run it at your will, its unsafe.
 
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Offline Ampera

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2018, 04:19:33 pm »
Win XP is was released in 2001, if you have 16 years, XP is older than you!

If you dont consider an OS old when it has 17 years, an OS that was launched at the time of DDR2 and AGP and expect it to be maintained in hardware totally different, we now have more RAM tipically in a cheapo-ish system than that OS usually saw as an HDD, I still remember having a 20GB HDD and 256MB of RAM, my work laptop has 16GB of RAM, my personal one 32GB.

Thats an OS made on the times of single and dual core systems, throw a Coffee Lake or a Ryzen and it will see a lot more than that..

Its "old", because it IS OLD, its discontinued and there are no more security updates for it, run it at your will, its unsafe.

I'm aware of the risks of running it, and I run it on a legacy machine that cannot use modern operating systems properly.

The reason I don't say it's old is because I'm not old. I'm aware software has a smaller lifespan than the average human, but I still consider it somewhat modern.
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Offline taydin

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2018, 04:42:44 pm »
I spend most of my working day in front of a linux computer, and I only use my windows computer for software that is windows only (like circuit studio, alibre design, mind manager etc).

What I hate most about windows:

- Software installation/removal: It just isn't possible to completely get rid of an installed piece of software. There's always crap left behind in the filesystem, the registry, or other dependency software (like Microsoft Visual C/C++ redistributable garbage. Right now, I am seeing that I have 16 MSVC redistributables installed, and I have no idea which one was installed by which software). The worst offenders are Microsoft's own software packages. Try installing the visual c++ compiler and then removing it :) It stuffs itself so hard into the OS, there's just no way to cleanly remove it.

- The fact that windows itself is spyware. If you have a microphone, a webcam, or any other type of sensor, chances are some component of windows is tapping into it. Some of you might think this is just too paranoid, but Microsoft's track record justifies this kind of paranoia. There are many software package that just plain don't work if you don't divulge information about yourself. Last I checked, visual C++ compiler suite was not usable unless you create a microsoft account.

I hope alternatives to windows only software will become available and I can put my windows machine to use as an extra linux machine :)
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Offline rrinker

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 05:10:57 pm »
 Windows 8 pretty much failed because like Vista, 8.0 was a mess, and things were very difficult. Still annoys me working with customers who have Server 2012 instead of 2012 R2 (Windows 8.1) because especially when using remote access software, the slight lag even the best of them has makes it a real pain to access common things like the log out and restart. Combine remote access with a VMWare console and you can just forget it - better home the VMTools are installed correctly so you can externally trigger a proper restart.

8.1 changes all that, 8.1 was actually quite usable. But it wasn't around all that long. I did have one machine running it, the rest stayed at 7, until the free Windows 10 updates.

Have a Microsoft account - while they may end up selling your registration information, I don;t think is such a big deal. First, the email I use to sign up is my "throwaway" one I use with any services that require me to supply an email address, and second, if Microsoft isn't selling it, one of those others almost surely is, so it's already too late on that one. I have another for friends and family (and even then, not all family - the ones I'm always removing malware from don't even have my other email address). And I never get any unsolicited junk on that one, EVER. I've had the throwaway one long before I had a Microsoft account for anything, and there was no noticeable difference in spam volume after adding a Microsoft account.

What you really get from this - I can work on both work AND personal stuff, anywhere, any time. We're Office 365 at work, so that comes with a large OneDrive space. A personal Microsoft account also comes with OneDrive space, just not as much.  I have both Microsoft accounts active on all my computers, one reason being so I can use the 5 licenses of Office from the O365 account to have the applications on my home machines as well as my work laptop. Work laptop, my only laptop, also has things like KiCad installed, so wherever I go, I can open one of my projects and work on it. This laptop is NOT a touch screen, I will not get a touchscreen laptop unless there ends up being no other choice in the future - but I still won't use it as such, I don;t need fingerprints on my screen. It's bad enough keeping an actual tablet clean. And there is no such thing as a good trackpad - sorry, even the Apple ones suck. Luckily on this laptop it is possible to turn it off, so there is no accidental activation. I always use an external mouse.

I guess that's my computer equivalent of "get off my lawn". I'm old, I started programming with the release of the TRS-80 Model 1. I am a year younger than the PDP-8, but never used one. I did use a PDP-11 in work, and a PDP-10 (with TOPS 20, so a DEC-20) at school. I sometimes laugh at videos on some channels like LGR, as his relatively young age shows at times when discussing old systems - he has the technical details right, but as someone who was not there at the time those old systems were current state of the art, he sometimes fails to get the "whys". So here I am, the old guy (on the tech side, of 12 co-workers in the same group I work with, only one is also my age, the rest are all on average 20 years younger than me - I have a computer sitting on my desk older than some of them, a 1981 vintage NEC PC-8801A), still keeping up with the latest (partly because I have to - its my job), but I enjoy it, and don't find nearly as many objections to Windows 10 as some seem to. It's been rock solid across my 3 machines plus another at home I built for my GF. Her work laptop constantly has problems, but I'm not sure if it's a Dell problem or Windows 10, or poor configuration from what seems to be a fairly clueless IT team. My work laptop is an HP, the other 3 systems are various vintage desktops I built myself, one is 6 years old, the others are about 2 years old.

 

Online Zero999

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2018, 01:54:10 pm »
Win XP is was released in 2001, if you have 16 years, XP is older than you!

If you dont consider an OS old when it has 17 years, an OS that was launched at the time of DDR2 and AGP and expect it to be maintained in hardware totally different, we now have more RAM tipically in a cheapo-ish system than that OS usually saw as an HDD, I still remember having a 20GB HDD and 256MB of RAM, my work laptop has 16GB of RAM, my personal one 32GB.

Thats an OS made on the times of single and dual core systems, throw a Coffee Lake or a Ryzen and it will see a lot more than that..

Its "old", because it IS OLD, its discontinued and there are no more security updates for it, run it at your will, its unsafe.
That's mostly bullshit propaganda, propagated by MS, to increase sales of new Windows versions.

The registry hack is perfectly safe and will allow XP to continue to receive updates until April 2019. Contrary to what MS say, it's perfectly safe to use on XP Home. If there are problems with updates, then it's certainly no worse than Windows 10 updates, which can cause problems. Even when XP stops getting updated, it's no big deal. Put it behind a decent hardware firewall and use a modern browser, such as Firefox.
 
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Offline John Coloccia

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2018, 04:28:39 pm »
I have a couple of Windows 10 machines. Once you get rid of all the craplets and turn off all of the intrusive garbage, I think it works fine. It's actually quite pleasant.

I don't particularly like some of the new interfaces, especially the ribbon (nothing to do with 10) and the window design (everything to do with 10), but it's a pretty minor thing. Younger guys I work with LOVE the new interface, so I just chalk it up to me being an old fuddy duddy that doesn't like new things.

Yeah, I rather like 10. It's very stable, and seems pretty responsive/speedy. I may switch my Windows 7 workstation at work to 10 in the near future as well.

IMHO, the key to getting on with 10 if you hate it is to uninstall everything you possibly can, take 10 minutes and shut off all of the intrusive garbage/security holes you can, and pin everything you use to the task bar. More or less, I never actually interact with anything Windows-like in my day to day work. Out of the box, as delivered, Windows 10 is a steaming pile of crap in my opinion.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 04:34:11 pm by John Coloccia »
 

Offline orin

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 06:59:45 pm »
I spend most of my working day in front of a linux computer, and I only use my windows computer for software that is windows only (like What I hate most about windows:

- Software installation/removal: It just isn't possible to completely get rid of an installed piece of software. There's always crap left behind in the filesystem, the registry, or other dependency software (like Microsoft Visual C/C++ redistributable garbage. Right now, I am seeing that I have 16 MSVC redistributables installed, and I have no idea which one was installed by which software). The worst offenders are Microsoft's own software packages. Try installing the visual c++ compiler and then removing it :) It stuffs itself so hard into the OS, there's just no way to cleanly remove it.


OMG.  Those that live in glass houses...

I have more trouble installing software on Linux than on Win10.  It usually goes something like this:

Install(app)
Run app installer
loop:
Attempt to run software
Can't find libfoo.so
google libfoo and software name
find libfoo
If I'm lucky: apt-get, oh no, this system is Centos yum... to install libfoo
If not... recursive call of Install(libfoo)
goto loop

Now you go to uninstall the software.  Do you remember all those extras you needed?  Does something else you installed use them?  You don't know, so you have a bunch of libraries on your linux system that you maybe no longer need.  How is that different to C runtimes being left behind on Windows?

Not to mention the fact that each distribution "knows best" where to put things.  Try copying a web site that you tested on Centos 7 to Ubuntu.  Is it /etc/apache2 or /etc/httpd this week?  Where does your ssl certificate go?

One of our products runs on XP up, iOS, OSX and Android.  Oh what fun...

There's no one OS better than the other IMO.  Just different problems.
 
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Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 07:49:18 pm »
I have more trouble installing software on Linux than on Win10. 

The APT Linux installer suffers from the 'DLL Hell' problem of Windows, but on steroids. Not only that, it's often impossible to install an app without all kinds of other crap being pulled in along with it. The reverse can also be true, try to apt-get remove something you don't want or need, and it threatens to remove something totally unrelated but vital along with it.  :wtf:

I can install Office 97 on Windows 10, or any combination of versions so long as the OS is not too much older than the Office version. When I upgraded Debian from Etch to Jessie, my entire KDE3 desktop went down the tubes, and there was no way I could get it back. I was forced to use KDE4, which was not only a pile of poo but didn't have the things I needed anyway. It was a total disaster and I had to restore from a backup.

When I upgraded Jessie to Wheezy, a similar thing happened in that K3B was replaced by a new version that didn't work. I couldn't get the version that worked back, either. In the finish I just decided to forget it use the Windows box for optical disk burning.

Basically, there is way too much interdependence of components in Linux distros.

I really wish there was something like http://portableapps.com for Linux. Use their stuff all the time on Windows, not so much because I need the app to be portable but because I know it won't knacker-up the OS by pumping a ton of sh*t into the system folders.  Though, being able to transfer the app to another box without losing its settings is another plus point.  ;)

 
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Offline llkiwi2006

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 08:11:30 pm »
Even when XP stops getting updated, it's no big deal. Put it behind a decent hardware firewall and use a modern browser, such as Firefox.

Not a good idea, there are attacks that cannot be stopped by the browser sandbox and must be patched in kernel, such as the recent fiasco with meltdown and spectre.  There are also wormable attacks which do require any user interaction to infect, although they are very rare these days. Also even a decent firewall is unlikely to stop everything such as a new 0 day. In my opinion firewalls are really just an illusion of security, not a replacement for patching vulnerabilities and properly training users to not download malware.

edit: formatting
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 08:37:51 pm »
Honestly, the greatest security flaw of any computer is the end user.

If you're not an idiot, you can avoid a decent amount of issues.
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Offline taydin

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2018, 09:40:44 pm »
There's no one OS better than the other IMO.  Just different problems.

Fair enough, the linux world has its own problems for sure. But with linux, nobody is actively trying to prevent you from understanding what's happening under the hood. With enough expertise (not that I have that much expertise, but i'm trying :) ), you can eventually solve problems. You might have to resort to looking at the source code to understand the problem.

But with windows, you never have that option. Unless you are willing to spend exorbitant amounts of time disassembling a program and understanding how it works, you will eventually get stuck. The manufacturer won't help you, because:

1) it might be an older version which they don't support anymore.

2) you might be using an older version of windows, which they don't support anymore.

3) your hardware might have a configuration which they don't support.

4) you might not have a support contract with them ($$$) so they won't even talk to you.

5) they might not be competent enough to solve the problem, given that the problem might be happening as a result of interaction with other software on that system. You might be competent, but your hands are tied because of lack of documentation and source code.

So in summary, yes, you are right, both have problems. But with linux, there's hope for a resolution, given sufficient expertise. With windows, the point of no hope is very near, so nobody really bothers.
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Online Zero999

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2018, 09:45:43 pm »
Even when XP stops getting updated, it's no big deal. Put it behind a decent hardware firewall and use a modern browser, such as Firefox.

Not a good idea, there are attacks that cannot be stopped by the browser sandbox and must be patched in kernel, such as the recent fiasco with meltdown and spectre.  There are also wormable attacks which do require any user interaction to infect, although they are very rare these days. Also even a decent firewall is unlikely to stop everything such as a new 0 day. In my opinion firewalls are really just an illusion of security, not a replacement for patching vulnerabilities and properly training users to not download malware.

edit: formatting
If the firewall doesn't stop the attack, then it's possible newer versions of Windows are vulnerable to other attacks, which can't be stopped. Using the latest, update Windows version is just an illusion of security. I have old boxes running XP perfectly fine, even with no firewall, although I admit it's not for anything critical: no need to upgrade anything.
 

Offline orin

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 02:06:57 am »

So in summary, yes, you are right, both have problems. But with linux, there's hope for a resolution, given sufficient expertise.


And therein lies the rub, though I'd say "given sufficient time and expertise".

If I have a problem with some linux package, perhaps, I can find it in the source and fix it.  Creating a new nightmare for myself, especially if it's a system library.  So I submit my change to the maintainer of the package in question and wait.  Maybe they accept it; more likely, NIH1 syndrome takes over and I get ignored, or they deprecate2 the feature I was trying to use or they come up with 'a better' fix that is incompatible with my code.  Now mix this in with LGPL requirements of being able to link with a later version of whatever library had the problem... only if they accept my fix as written will that work.  So now I have to monitor every update to the library that I had 'fixed' and provide patches to my customers to enable my software to continue to work.  No thank you.

For this reason, I static link to the C++ runtime.  No redistributable required.  Sure, if a nasty bug is found in the runtime, I would have to provide an update, but the more that's under my control, the better.

1Not Invented Here: the tendency to reject code/ideas supplied by a third party as it wasn't invented by the person to whom it was submitted.

2FWIW, there are many APIs in Windows that have been deprecated since XP, but I build the product that I work on for XP and as long as .net isn't involved, my code will run on any version of Windows from XP to the latest Windows 10.  It's really not that difficult.
 

Offline justanothercanuck

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 05:13:02 am »
It usually goes something like this:

Install(app)
Run app installer
loop:
Attempt to run software
Can't find libfoo.so
google libfoo and software name
find libfoo
If I'm lucky: apt-get, oh no, this system is Centos yum... to install libfoo
If not... recursive call of Install(libfoo)
goto loop

I don't necessarily buy that...  then again, I don't run the mainstream distros.  If your package manager can't manage/install dependancies properly, then maybe it's your distro's fault. 

That is, unless you're installing random programs from the internet and bypassing your package manager entirely, then you've got nobody to blame there.  :-//
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Offline ikrase

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 05:22:34 am »
Well, the package manager has a pretty limited selection and often is very out of date. And some stuff actually needs to be installed from source.

Unless you want your open source linux computer to be like an iPhone locked to an app store... only free.


 

Offline Ampera

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 05:51:09 am »
It usually goes something like this:

Install(app)
Run app installer
loop:
Attempt to run software
Can't find libfoo.so
google libfoo and software name
find libfoo
If I'm lucky: apt-get, oh no, this system is Centos yum... to install libfoo
If not... recursive call of Install(libfoo)
goto loop

I don't necessarily buy that...  then again, I don't run the mainstream distros.  If your package manager can't manage/install dependancies properly, then maybe it's your distro's fault. 

That is, unless you're installing random programs from the internet and bypassing your package manager entirely, then you've got nobody to blame there.  :-//

Was actually about to say something like this. pacman has none of these issues, but I have found that apt marks X11 packages unused if you remove anything X11 related even if it's not the only thing using it. Seems like a really simple thing to program in...
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Offline CNe7532294

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 06:01:18 am »
Ya.... XP is not old. I used that during highschool and college and my looks are still like I came fresh out of college.  ::) Now whats really old is running programs thru command prompt and using proper syntax. GUI made things too easy that Joe average couldn't keep up. Of course this makes those with computer knowledge more valuable.  ;) The down side to giving Joe average access to computing was that now OSs are loaded with a bunch of crap we don't need nor even touch.  >:D
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2018, 06:13:18 am »
I myself have worked in the IT field one way or another for the past 19 years. I hate what Windows has become. Don't get me wrong, I embrace change, when it's for the better, Windows 8/10 is not. It's horrible. It's a bastardised version of Windows 7 while trying to shove cloud services in your face whether you like it or not. It's trying to be like Apple (which is a failure in itself) but Windows managed to even fail at that.

Now more than ever I'm utilising "legacy" hardware and software because I refuse to sign-up to this "cloud culture". Not everything needs to be in the cloud, not everything needs to be it's own "app" application and I shouldn't need to pay yearly fees just to use my computer.

I worked out that it would have actually cost me much more to move all my stuff I use at home into the cloud than to just buy a couple of servers and manage them locally. Not only is speed and uptime far more superior, I have no on-going licencing fees, I can control security from here and guarantee my data is safe.

To this day, I still use Windows XP on an almost daily basis (along with Windows 7). Why? Because it's fast, it works and it's reasonably secure (if you know what you're doing). I've said this before and I'll repeat it again here: Windows 7 will be the last version of Windows I'll ever use, unless Microsoft decide to do a huge back flip. It'll be Linux after Windows 7 becomes dead in the water.
 
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Offline amspire

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2018, 06:48:16 am »
I have more trouble installing software on Linux than on Win10.  It usually goes something like this:

Install(app)
Run app installer
loop:
Attempt to run software
Can't find libfoo.so
google libfoo and software name
find libfoo
If I'm lucky: apt-get, oh no, this system is Centos yum... to install libfoo
If not... recursive call of Install(libfoo)
goto loop

Now you go to uninstall the software.  Do you remember all those extras you needed?  Does something else you installed use them?  You don't know, so you have a bunch of libraries on your linux system that you maybe no longer need.  How is that different to C runtimes being left behind on Windows?
Most distro's have thousands of prebuilt applications and so most people do not see this.

If you are seeing this problem, a great solution can be Docker. This lets you install a Ubuntu 16 application in a Ubuntu 16 environment on Centos 7, and you will usually find pre-built Docker containers for the application that have already done all the hard work.

Uninstalling a container is trivial and you are not cluttering the base O/S with application specific library files.

This is probably the future of compatability support in O/S's
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 06:50:28 am by amspire »
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2018, 06:51:15 am »
I myself have worked in the IT field one way or another for the past 19 years. I hate what Windows has become. Don't get me wrong, I embrace change, when it's for the better, Windows 8/10 is not. It's horrible. It's a bastardised version of Windows 7 while trying to shove cloud services in your face whether you like it or not. It's trying to be like Apple (which is a failure in itself) but Windows managed to even fail at that.

Now more than ever I'm utilising "legacy" hardware and software because I refuse to sign-up to this "cloud culture". Not everything needs to be in the cloud, not everything needs to be it's own "app" application and I shouldn't need to pay yearly fees just to use my computer.

I worked out that it would have actually cost me much more to move all my stuff I use at home into the cloud than to just buy a couple of servers and manage them locally. Not only is speed and uptime far more superior, I have no on-going licencing fees, I can control security from here and guarantee my data is safe.

To this day, I still use Windows XP on an almost daily basis (along with Windows 7). Why? Because it's fast, it works and it's reasonably secure (if you know what you're doing). I've said this before and I'll repeat it again here: Windows 7 will be the last version of Windows I'll ever use, unless Microsoft decide to do a huge back flip. It'll be Linux after Windows 7 becomes dead in the water.

I think you would have a good time with 2016, but I largely agree with you.

Honestly, Microsoft hit a high they never got close to returning to with Windows 2000/NT 5. It was a professional, simple, but powerful operating system that could with the stability of DOS. I remember it fondly, and try to use it when I can, but forced obsolescence makes that a bit hard.

I run Arch Linux as a sadly untouched dual boot. Whenever I decide to dual boot with Linux, it always is the same thing. I love using it, but then there's a specific app that Wine won't run and I need to use, so I switch over, use it, but then end up staying and neglecting Linux.

The full death of the NT kernel will be a day I celebrate if it happens. Death to the NT kernel!
C/C++/Java Programmer, Legacy hardware enthusiast, madman.
If it's broken, I probably did it.
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Offline llkiwi2006

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2018, 09:49:19 am »
I love using it, but then there's a specific app that Wine won't run and I need to use, so I switch over, use it, but then end up staying and neglecting Linux.

Why not run it in a windows vm? My only problem is not being able to play windows only games, since graphics acceleration doesn't work that well in VMs (could try pcie passthrough if I had a desktop). Though I see only buying games with linux support as a financial incentive for game devs to support linux.
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2018, 10:21:01 am »
I love using it, but then there's a specific app that Wine won't run and I need to use, so I switch over, use it, but then end up staying and neglecting Linux.

Why not run it in a windows vm? My only problem is not being able to play windows only games, since graphics acceleration doesn't work that well in VMs (could try pcie passthrough if I had a desktop). Though I see only buying games with linux support as a financial incentive for game devs to support linux.

That is exactly the reason I don't use a VM. Anything you can't run on Linux is usually either a game, or something unique and computational.
C/C++/Java Programmer, Legacy hardware enthusiast, madman.
If it's broken, I probably did it.
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Offline ikrase

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Re: So what's going on with Windows-10, and why do we ('I') hate it ????
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2018, 11:24:06 am »
Yeah, a lot of things are clumsy in VMs.

For me, the big frustration with Win10 is the forced updates (which break stuff) and the inability to install unsigned drivers.

So our company, which makes very uncommon, specialised hardware, has to pay Verisign the money to say we are Definitely A Real Company (for two years). It seems like protection money. And hobbyists or open source people who can't cough up the five hundred USD are out of luck.
 


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