So, who's taking the windows 10 plunge

[G7PSK]

I might try W10 on the desktop but it is unlikely that I will try it on my laptop which is a Panasonic CF19 toughbook, it took 2 days to install all the drivers on that after I replaced the HDD earlier this year and installed W7 it had been Vista it was trial and error as to which drivers worked on the machine some are MK2 some MK3 and 4 drivers.

[SL4P]

that sounds like what I'd expect...
Microsoft and others are not in business for you.
They exist for their shareholders.. it's what keeps businesses rolling along, collapsing and being reborn with new ideals.

The days are gone when you buy something with you own hard-earned -- and actually own it!

[Deathwish]

I have freebsd on one laptop, windows 7 on this one and windows xp on the main pc. I will not be moving up to 10, tired of all the upgrades and everything Gates does to make money from us all.

[Muxr]

So basically their whole marketing plan has changed from a one time price for a package to give away the Win10 base software for free and then they will charge you every year for a subscription to receive updates and patches.
If you don't pay the subscription fee than your system will become vulnerable for security leaks etc.

Someone else on this forum mentioned this but I've never heard anything about it elsewhere. Any basis for it? Or it is just a MS-bashing rumour?

No it came from a prominent MS developer on the ignite 2015 keynote and the company backed it up.
It was on a lot of computer sites and magazines. Just a quick google because i am at work 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/08/microsoft-windows-10-last-windows/

The thing is Windows adoption rate is fairly slow, because only about 20%-30% (maybe even less) of people upgrade to the latest version within a year of the release, whereas on the Mac most people are running the latest unless they are stuck due to old hardware. This means Microsoft has to dedicate time and effort updating the old Windows versions which they would like to stop having to support. So it makes sense that they would just want one actual version, with continuous upgrades.

Apple just stops supporting old versions period, you're either running latest or you aren't getting updates, helps though that OS X updates have been pretty smooth for the most part, both in terms of usability and UI changes ever since they did the architecture switch to x86. Nothing like the horrors of Vista and Windows 8.

As far as yearly sub is concerned Adobe is doing it with some of their software like Lightroom (although you can still outright buy it as well).

[TerraHertz]

A very quick look on the net reveals very little detail about the install process. It's a 3GB down load. Does it save as an ISO? If I want to do a re-install do I need to pre-install W7 then upgrade to W10? What happens to this upgrade offer if I decide to re-install after it expires. What happens if I want to setup a secure non-internet connected PC?

Has it occurred to you that your having a secure non-internet connected PC is something TPTB (and their useful tool Microsoft) strongly wish was impossible. So rather than waste time coming round to your place with a SWAT team, they just make it ever harder to do.

Why wouldn't a billion dollar company who no doubt hire more marketing psychologists than programmers not understand that installing a new OS is more important to some than choosing a flatmate that isn't a psychopath?

Why do obviously very intelligent people such as yourself seem to have steep psychological barriers to recognizing the clearly hostile motives of a company pushing an Operating System that with each version becomes a closer equivalent to sharing a flat with a psychopath? Normalcy bias, much?

The buildings full of marketting psychologists are only there to model exactly how far and fast MS can push their bullshit without causing any effective customer backlash. (Where 'effective' would involve razing MS offices to the ground and salting the earth they stood on.)

Someone earlier pointed out that MS just auto-installed an advertisement for Win 10 on everyone's PCs, disguised as an important security update. (On the PCs of those who have auto-update enabled, anyway.)
And you think you can trust this company with the digital shade of your life?

"Oh, but they are giving it away for free!"
No they are not. Microsoft is a predatory corporation, with only two interests:
1. Profit. Maximizing of it, without any moral considerations whatsoever.
2. Long term Elite-driven socio-political goals, which are quite complex but definitely not for your benefit.

I've read that MS has decided to switch to a 'rental model', in which they have sufficient control over the PC platform to be able to enforce perpetual and inescapable pay-for-use. The idea is that you won't buy the OS or utilities like Office, but rather pay a subscription for use of cloud-based software and storage. The 'thin terminal' model, in which your PC doesn't have much grunt, and is more under Microsoft's control than yours. Also all your data files will be 'safe and secure in the Cloud.'

And if you believe that is a good thing, well... you're going to have an interesting learning experience over the next few years. Also, anyone who thinks storing personal data on corporate cloud servers is in any way private, deserves an education via two by four.

Hence the 'Free upgrade to Win 10' hype. You know those cage traps used to catch animals? Like that. The cheese is free.

As a general prediction, I'd bet once MS feels they have an acceptable portion of the PC userbase shifted to Win10 (and the UEFI 'secure boot' scheme continues morphing into a fully OS-locked closed hardware platform) it's going to become virtually impossible for anyone but an extreme expert to revert back to independent, stand-alone operating systems.  (He says, while having some typical difficulties just installing XP on a nice HP-Compaq 6910p laptop, from not too many years ago.)

Incidentally, somewhat relevant - a few days ago I discovered a forum for those seeking an escape path from the Microsoft Trail of Tears.  Seems very active, with lots of interesting stuff. I'm hoping to finally try setting up nLite.
Microsoft Software Forum Network (It's _about_ MS software, not by MS. Especially optimizing non-current MS OSs like XP. And use of nLite.)
  http://www.msfn.org/board/

Oh, and while creating an account I found that somewhere between their server and optusnet, there's an email block. Multiple signup verification mails from them to me just vanished. But when I had the mails routed via my own US webserver, they got through immediately.
In my opinion, having their name on a blacklist somewhere is a very positive sign. They must be doing something right, enough to annoy our masters.

[SL4P]

The concept of a 'rental model' leads me to an important question...
Say I have XP, W2K, or W7/W8 installed today.
Those drop off the support tree, but do what I need for compatibility.

I have purchased Disks, licences, keys whatever, have holograms...
--- then want to do a clean install in three years time.

In many cases the new OS can't be installed on that older 386, 486, Pentium box...

The older OS are ok, as they untangle the licence key internally, but the 'call home' model...?
Will my Windows 7 ultimate still activate, or am I forced to pay again for something I already own and paid for - that provides access to my work, family archives and daily banking?

I realise there's no guarantee of forward/backward compatibility.... so I want to run the old environment on at least one legacy system, in order to migrate old data forward.

If indeed, I can't re activate... Who carries the can for this denial of access or opportunity?
"You can still eat three meals a day, but it has to be at my restaurant, at my prices!".
-- interesting

HINT: Keep an already activated 'image' ASAP, and keep it up to date!

You could say motor vehicles are heading the same way, but as mechanical devices, if I lose the key, I can replace the lock, or hot-wire it to get out of trouble...  Maybe we need legally enforced 'official back doors' implemented when software goes out of support?

Personally, I don't care, as I've covered my bases in other ways, but as the devil's advocate - these are questions that should be asked.

[DrGeoff]

Looks OK, however I'm not impressed with the lack of any mention of Thunderbolt support. Thunderbolt is available on several high-end motherboards now.

[John Coloccia]

If it's reasonably priced, a subscription model is actually not that bad.  I have subscriptions for some things, like Adobe Creative Cloud.  I'm always up to date, and the upfront cost is lower.  People upgrade computers so frequently nowadays, it could actually be considerably CHEAPER for many.  You pay for a Windows license anytime you buy a computer with Windows on it.  If you upgrade every few years, it could well be cheaper to pay a subscription for Windows than to buy it once, and then essentially throw it out.

I'm in wait and see mode.  They may not do anything at all and just keep selling as they currently do.

[miguelvp]

Who says that Windows 10 is subscription based? as far as I can tell I can upgrade my Windows 7 64bits Professional to Windows 10 Professional for free and I have a full year to actually install it or request it.

[Mr.B]

I've read that MS has decided to switch to a 'rental model', in which they have sufficient control over the PC platform to be able to enforce perpetual and inescapable pay-for-use. The idea is that you won't buy the OS or utilities like Office, but rather pay a subscription for use of cloud-based software and storage. The 'thin terminal' model, in which your PC doesn't have much grunt, and is more under Microsoft's control than yours. Also all your data files will be 'safe and secure in the Cloud.'

Are you able to cite sources please?

[suicidaleggroll]

If it's reasonably priced, a subscription model is actually not that bad.  I have subscriptions for some things, like Adobe Creative Cloud.  I'm always up to date, and the upfront cost is lower.  People upgrade computers so frequently nowadays, it could actually be considerably CHEAPER for many.  You pay for a Windows license anytime you buy a computer with Windows on it.  If you upgrade every few years, it could well be cheaper to pay a subscription for Windows than to buy it once, and then essentially throw it out.

The subscription model Adobe and MS are using puts the annual subscription pricing at about half the one-time purchase.  So you can buy it once for $200 and use it for the next 5+ years, or pay $100 a year.  I don't know anybody that goes through computers every 2 years or less, so the subscription model will cost more for nearly everybody.

You don't pay separately for a Windows license when you buy a computer either.  Go check the prices of computers that offer Linux as an option - they're the same.  Dell XPS 13 is the exact same price whether you get Windows 8.1 or Ubuntu.

[Richard Crowley]

Who says that Windows 10 is subscription based? as far as I can tell I can upgrade my Windows 7 64bits Professional to Windows 10 Professional for free and I have a full year to actually install it or request it.

Get back to us in a year when you get your subscription invoice.

[nctnico]

You don't pay separately for a Windows license when you buy a computer either.  Go check the prices of computers that offer Linux as an option - they're the same.  Dell XPS 13 is the exact same price whether you get Windows 8.1 or Ubuntu.

Not true for all models. I bought a high end Dell workstation and Windows 8.1 Pro came as a seperate option which adds to the price of the PC. I did buy that to have a Windows license to run Windows in a VM under Linux.

[miguelvp]

Who says that Windows 10 is subscription based? as far as I can tell I can upgrade my Windows 7 64bits Professional to Windows 10 Professional for free and I have a full year to actually install it or request it.

Get back to us in a year when you get your subscription invoice.

Nah, the subscription model for Windows 10 applies only for computers with Intel processors, AMD based systems get the upgrade for free for life.

See I can make things up too.

[Richard Crowley]

Nah, the subscription model for Windows 10 applies only for computers with Intel processors, AMD based systems get the upgrade for free for life.
See I can make things up too.

Neither of us can guess what they will decide to do a year from now.
But I'll bet they aren't going to become a benevolent non-profit company giving away operating system licenses.

You don't pay separately for a Windows license when you buy a computer either.  Go check the prices of computers that offer Linux as an option - they're the same.  Dell XPS 13 is the exact same price whether you get Windows 8.1 or Ubuntu.

That is because MS plays sleazy tricks with selling licenses. If you are a big customer like Dell, you get a steep discount if you buy as many licenses as machines that you ship. So the cost is essentially built into the cost of the machine whether you actually install the OS or not.

[miguelvp]

Nah, the subscription model for Windows 10 applies only for computers with Intel processors, AMD based systems get the upgrade for free for life.
See I can make things up too.

Neither of us can guess what they will decide to do a year from now.
But I'll bet they aren't going to become a benevolent non-profit company giving away operating system licenses.

There is nothing to guess.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-faq?ocid=Reserve_r_Confirmation_mod2_faq

The having a full year to actually do the free upgrade doesn't mean that the OS will stop after one year.

Unless someone can link evidence to the contrary they only thing they are doing is spreading unsubstantiated rumors.

[DrGeoff]

There wasn't any mention of a subscription licensing system at the presentation in Feb from MS. Operating in the cloud would be a disaster in Aus due to the crippled upload speeds and poor network connectivity in general. Also means you are buggerred if there's an outage or no coverage in a remote location.

Win10 was to be offered as a free upgrade for 12 months. New installations and post 12-month upgrades are charged for. I think the idea was to try and get as many people off the legacy systems as possible and ontpo Win10 rather than have Apple poach users after the Win8 debacle. It sounds like a move to push towards the one OS on tablet, laptop, desktop and phone.

[miguelvp]

The offer expires after a year, not the upgrade.

http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost.

[Len]

The subscription rumour is just fear-mongering bullshit from the anti-Microsoft crowd. Licensing for Windows 10 is just like previous versions. Microsoft announced the prices, they're the same as Windows 8.1 except the upgrade price is $0 this year. Microsoft has made this perfectly clear, anyone who thinks otherwise is wearing their tinfoil hat too tight.

once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost.

http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/

[Edit] Miguel beat me to that quote.

[John Coloccia]

Some higher ups, I forget who, have alluded to the idea that they have no intention of simply giving away Windows forever to whoever gets a license, and that their pricing schemes will be revisited in the future.  The typical model is you buy a license, and then pay a maintenance fee to keep it up to date.  But nothing is known yet...at least not publicly, and I doubt they've actually made any decisions at this point beyond "KILL WINDOWS 8 AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE"...because then they'll be stuck maintaining 7, 8 and 10, just like the Vista debacle.

re: adobe pricing
Adobe Create Suite 6 Master Collection was something like $2500 if I remember right.  I pay $600 a year for everything.  Furthermore, I can switch to a monthly plan, for $74 a month.  I may end up doing this because I mainly use it to get stuff ready for my website when I do product launches and announcements.  I may only need it 2 or 3 times a year, so I have the option of just using it when I absolutely need it, and getting by with freeware when I don't.  I'm trying it like this for a year to learn it and understand what I use it for, and then I'll probably switch to a monthly subscription and activate it when necessary.  And I STILL get the latest and greatest each and every time I use it, plus synchronized settings between computers and other cloud features if I choose to use them.  And the best part is, I don't have to lay out a lot of capital now, plus I can decide to dump it tomorrow if I want to and go with something else.  You have to look at it from a business perspective, and it works out OK.

re: lifetime of the device
What's the lifetime of the device?  Microsoft has refused to comment on that.  Don't be naive...they won't keep giving upgrades for free forever, unless they're forced to by public outcry.  And why should they?  All those employees and stock holders have bills to pay too.  Apple can keep giving it away because they're not a software company.  They're a hardware company.  Microsoft is a software company, so you have to pay for the software.

[miguelvp]

Some higher ups, I forget who, have alluded to the idea that they have no intention of simply giving away Windows forever to whoever gets a license, and that their pricing schemes will be revisited in the future.  The typical model is you buy a license, and then pay a maintenance fee to keep it up to date.

re: adobe pricing
Adobe Create Suite 6 Master Collection was something like $2500 if I remember right.  I pay $600 a year for everything.  Furthermore, I can switch to a monthly plan, for $74 a month.  I may end up doing this because I mainly use it to get stuff ready for my website when I do product launches and announcements.  I may only need it 2 or 3 times a year, so I have the option of just using it when I absolutely need it, and getting by with freeware when I don't.  I'm trying it like this for a year to learn it and understand what I use it for, and then I'll probably switch to a monthly subscription and activate it when necessary.  And I STILL get the latest and greatest each and every time I use it, plus synchronized settings between computers and other cloud features if I choose to use them.  And the best part is, I don't have to lay out a lot of capital now, plus I can decide to dump it tomorrow if I want to and go with something else.  You have to look at it from a business perspective, and it works out OK.

Speculation, Adobe != Microsoft
They are not giving it away for free, the offer is only good if:

The only requirements are that:
a) your device is compatible, and
b) you’re running genuine Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1) or Windows 8.1 (Update).

[nickn4]

Without reading everything that's been already said in this thread, i risk saying something that is already been said but anywhere here is my opinion;

In first place i wont move to W10. at the moment i use W7, mainly because i can control almost every part of the OS. in windows 10 however, there is speculation that allot of shady stuff is being implemented so i wont even try it. HOWEVER..

if the drivers/low-end-software for the new ssd-pci controller wont really make it to past OS's i might reconsider my decision.

also i will see what will happen with all the lunix distro's, the market might go on rampage, although i seriously doubt it will make any difference

[TerraHertz]

I've read that MS has decided to switch to a 'rental model', in which they have sufficient control over the PC platform to be able to enforce perpetual and inescapable pay-for-use. The idea is that you won't buy the OS or utilities like Office, but rather pay a subscription for use of cloud-based software and storage. The 'thin terminal' model, in which your PC doesn't have much grunt, and is more under Microsoft's control than yours. Also all your data files will be 'safe and secure in the Cloud.'

Are you able to cite sources please?

google 'microsoft windows 10 subscription model'

I haven't been keeping notes on this, but there's a lot about it online. Many different opinions, as usual.
Here's one: http://www.windows10update.com/windows-10-will-be-run-and-supported-as-a-service/
There's also plenty of voices saying 'no no MS won't be charging you anything.' So you have to decide based on observed actions.

As I see it, the financial model for Windows OS isn't the core point. It's getting people to accept an OS that allows MS to enforce a rental model for application software. *Their* application software, and little else. This is what all the 'trusted software' and 'trusted platform' stuff is about. MS is building a capability into their OS to be able to literally control what software people are able to run. Doing it in little nibbles, but always in the direction of tighter control. Same thing with 'secure boot' - small steps, always towards ending up with hardware platforms on which you can't install anything but MS Windows. And hence, can't run anything but MS-approved software.

[Mr.B]

@TerraHertz
Thank you.
I will do some more searching, reading and digesting.

[miguelvp]

Or one could read "Service" as in "Service Packs", some people make mountains out of nothing.

On Windows 8, they did try to promote their Windows Shop (as in Google Play, Apple Store or the like) the users spoke up and there is no way that is going to fly as the only way to get software running on Windows unless is Windows Shop approved.

I'm not saying that is not what Microsoft wants, but that is not going to be what Microsoft gets, since then I've seen no indication of that being pursued any further.

This is like saying that Intel is going to charge per CPU cycle, sure it might happen in the future but why should I worry about it now?

Pay per Internet packet? that has been brought up many times as well.

So yeah, let's all panic because it's all doomed!