General > General Technical Chat

Software guys, please, no.

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tooki:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 18, 2022, 03:59:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on September 18, 2022, 12:41:09 pm ---LMAO at how insanely incorrect you are.

You have, with certainty asymptotically approaching 100%, used software he wrote. As others said, he wrote some significant parts of Windows.
--- End quote ---
You have, with certainty asymptotically approaching 100%, used software I've contributed to, so essentially used software I've "written".

Doesn't that make you insanely incorrect, by your own argument?

--- End quote ---
Of course not, because your statement was that he was a “copy and paste from the web” coder, and that’s nonsense, because you’ve used code he wrote before the web was even really a thing.

Your retort doesn’t even make logical sense, it just makes you look like a whiny child crying “no, YOU’RE the butthole!” I didn’t make ANY claims about your coding abilities, so what code you’ve written has zero bearing on the truthfulness of my reply.


--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 18, 2022, 03:59:56 pm ---I know I've offended your Coding Guru, but fact is, a lot of popular code, open source or not, is utter crap because most developers just don't care about the engineering part enough.  Things like robustness and security must be designed in, they cannot be added on top later on, yet most coders are absolutely fine with writing something that works, and leaving the "rest" –– like buffer overrun checks in C –– for "later".

These people work on both proprietary and open source code.  They are common.  They are successful, because the actual quality of their work product is unrelated to their popularity or career development.  You are utterly, horribly misguided if you think their long careers or popularity of their work product is somehow an indicator of the quality or sanity of their work product: the world does not work that way.  In essence, you are looking at the brand the person has built, instead of the actual work product.

Shame on you.

--- End quote ---
I should feel shame because I don’t agree with your shitting on someone you know nothing about? (And don’t patronize me by claiming he’s my “guru”. That’s simply not true. I don’t have any particular feelings about him either way.)

I completely agree that experience tells you little about the quality of someone’s work.

But your claim was that he was a cut and paste from the web coder, and that’s just nonsense.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: tooki on September 18, 2022, 04:26:09 pm ---your statement was that he was a “copy and paste from the web” coder, and that’s nonsense
--- End quote ---
You do know they do not actually physically exist, right?  I mean, anyone who only does that will not work in the industry for long.

It was a characterization, an analog to describe the approach to their work, not a literal description of their work pattern.

Double shame on you for willfully acting as if you didn't realize that.  You knew perfectly well that I was describing the mentality, and not the exact behaviour.

(Perhaps I should have written "the kind of person who" instead of "the person who"; but I suspect you would have resorted to this same fallacious argument even then.  It is not like you are considering any of my actual points here at all, just asserting that mine are wrong, because the sky is blue, and there are twelve months in a year –– that is, asserting my actual points are irrelevant, because if you twist my argument just a little bit, it no longer makes any sense to you.  Word games, not rational argumentation.)

And triple shame on you for completely ignoring the core of my argument: that just because they are popular and have had a long successful career, does not prove their work product is anything but a degree above garbage; it only proves that they have made themselves a successful brand.

wraper:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 18, 2022, 04:47:55 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on September 18, 2022, 04:26:09 pm ---your statement was that he was a “copy and paste from the web” coder, and that’s nonsense
--- End quote ---
You do know they do not actually physically exist, right?  I mean, anyone who only does that will not work in the industry for long.

It was a characterization, an analog to describe the approach to their work, not a literal description of their work pattern.

Double shame on you for willfully acting as if you didn't realize that.  You knew perfectly well that I was describing the mentality, and not the exact behaviour.

(Perhaps I should have written "the kind of person who" instead of "the person who"; but I suspect you would have resorted to this same fallacious argument even then.  It is not like you are considering any of my actual points here at all, just asserting that mine are wrong, because the sky is blue, and there are twelve months in a year –– that is, asserting my actual points are irrelevant, because if you twist my argument just a little bit, it no longer makes any sense to you.  Word games, not rational argumentation.)

And triple shame on you for completely ignoring the core of my argument: that just because they are popular and have had a long successful career, does not prove their work product is anything but a degree above garbage; it only proves that they have made themselves a successful brand.

--- End quote ---
So you characterize a person you know nothing about. If you watched particular video, there are no signs of "the kind of person who" either.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: tooki on September 18, 2022, 04:26:09 pm ---Your retort doesn’t even make logical sense, it just makes you look like a whiny child crying “no, YOU’RE the butthole!” I didn’t make ANY claims about your coding abilities, so what code you’ve written has zero bearing on the truthfulness of my reply.
--- End quote ---
You wrote, and I quote, "LMAO at how insanely incorrect you are.  You have, with certainty asymptotically approaching 100%, used software he wrote. As others said, he wrote some significant parts of Windows."

What is that but not an argument based on authority; asserting that because he wrote significant parts of windows, his work product must be good?

You are illogical.

If you extended the same logic to me, you should show me the same utter dereference to me as you do to him.

My argument is that that logic is untenable, a fallacy; that popularity is unrelated to quality, and you should not show any dereference to any person in any case.  Instead, you should examine what they say and do, and use that to evaluate the basis of their claims.

Here, you have a person who has done one thing for a long time.  He shows signs of a certain very common mentality, "it works for me, so it is correct".  I am deriding that mentality to the utmost, because I have not seen a single field of engineering or science where that produced good results.  However, I know that such assertions, if made with the correct social overtures and language, make a person popular, and lets them have a very successful career.

It is also the reason why so much software is utter shit.  I don't blame the social gamers, the people who succeed by making themselves a brand, so that the quality of their work product does not matter.  I blame you, for agreeing with them, and supporting them.

And that is exactly where the "shame on you" comes from: for being irrational and emotive, instead of rational and analytical, and still considering yourselves engineers or scientists.

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: wraper on September 18, 2022, 04:52:08 pm ---So you characterize a person you know nothing about. If you watched particular video, there are no signs of "the kind of person who" either.
--- End quote ---
I believe he is a very nice, personable, interesting person, who can present himself positively in every situation.
And that I do not want to have to rely on a single line of code he wrote, for exactly the reasons above.

If you disagree, fine.  But do consider that our disagreement has zero value to anyone; only the reasons behind the different opinions have value.

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