Solar friggn Roadways...from France

[Grottenolm85]

I just stumbled upon this website:
http://www.wattwaybycolas.com
Apparently they also build solar roadways, but in a simpler style. Their concept actually sounds technically possible, while still being economically rubbish.

Oddly enough they even acknowledge in their FAQ that their solution is about 3-times as expensive as conventional solar panels, while being less efficient (15% vs 19%).

Anyhow the french government decided to waste their money on this 

[AndreasF]

...
Anyhow the french government decided to waste their money on this 

And that's why it has been brought up already in 4 different places:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-681-more-solar-roadways-bullshit!/msg854294/#msg854294
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/this-thread-is-all-about-'publicly-funded-bullshit'/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/dave's-gonna-blow-a-gasket-or-two/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/they're-back-solar-roadways/

[dannyf]

If it is from France or Europe, it must be right,

Actually there is an article today about how centuries of Forest management in Europe have contributed to global warming.

Apparently, the wise european tree huggers have been planting the wrong trees all those years.

I didn't make that up, honestly.

[ivaylo]

If it is from France or Europe, it must be right,

Actually there is an article today about how centuries of Forest management in Europe have contributed to global warming.

Apparently, the wise european tree huggers have been planting the wrong trees all those years.

I didn't make that up, honestly.

At least you acknowledge there is global warming (albeit the French doing it by planting trees)...

[Brumby]

Actually, I think the only thing that was acknowledged was that there was an article written.  Not that they agreed or disagreed about the content.

[Grottenolm85]

I wonder who keeps  investing money in this stuff. As

If it is from France or Europe, it must be right,

Actually there is an article today about how centuries of Forest management in Europe have contributed to global warming.

Apparently, the wise european tree huggers have been planting the wrong trees all those years.

The trees growing in Europe today weren't planted against global warming. Most of those trees are about 60-70 years old...

[EEVblog]

An awesome article again by Joel Anderson on the French plan, including commentary from me:
https://www.equities.com/news/france-s-solar-roads-plan-a-costly-inefficient-boondoggle

[dannyf]

"At least you acknowledge there is global warming (albeit the French doing it by planting trees)..."

I thought it scientifically incorrect to say "global warming". " climate change" I think is the new term the climate scientists have asked us to use, in order to say their models.

As to global warming, I have been a believer of global warming for a long time, long before global warming was made fashionable: if you take a look at the long term temperature for the earth, you will find that our current temperature is significantly below average. That means if you believe in mean reversion, global warming is bound to happen.

Why does it happen? I have no idea, nor do any of those climate scientists.

[rrinker]

 Now there's a scary thought, where they say snowplow drivers should take extra care. Can you imagine of they caught the edge of one of these pieces and ripped up a whole stretch of the solar roadway? Ooops!

[EEVblog]

Why does it happen? I have no idea, nor do any of those climate scientists.

Yes they do, they're just smarter than you, and have spent their entire careers on it.

[dannyf]

"where they say snowplow drivers should take extra car"

Do they need snow plow on those roads? You are generating electricity right there and just some electric heaters and no snow accumulation.

[rrinker]

 DO solar cells work that way? I didn't think they did.

Mario Andretti, the race car driver, has a fancy block driveway at his house near here, which is pretty much impossible to plow due to it not being a flat surface. So he has water tubes under the whole thing, which when it's sunny out are used to heat his pool. When the weather turns bad, the warm water is piped under the driveway and keeps it free from snow.

[ivaylo]

"At least you acknowledge there is global warming (albeit the French doing it by planting trees)..."

I thought it scientifically incorrect to say "global warming". " climate change" I think is the new term the climate scientists have asked us to use, in order to say their models...

I just quoted you, man, this is what you wrote 

[tszaboo]

"where they say snowplow drivers should take extra car"

Do they need snow plow on those roads? You are generating electricity right there and just some electric heaters and no snow accumulation.

Now you are becoming ridiculous. If you have a normal roadway, the entire sunshine happiness is converted into heat. How would a solar panel powered heater beat that?
I really cannot decide if this is just bad trolling attempt or you really believe all the things you write.

[dannyf]

"I just quoted you, man, this is what you wrote  "

And that's because of what?

[tooki]

Now you are becoming ridiculous. If you have a normal roadway, the entire sunshine happiness is converted into heat. How would a solar panel powered heater beat that?

That is precisely the argument I've made. If snow collects on black asphalt, which is a more efficient energy collector than a solar cell can ever hope to be, by what mechanism would the losses at step in electric solar heating be not only recovered, but exceeded?

The only way thing one could possibly accomplish is to concentrate a whole road's energy onto melting snow from just one small section of pavement. (E.g. large solar parking lot melting snow just on the sidewalk.)

[dannyf]

"snow collects on black asphalt, which is a more efficient energy collector than a solar cell can ever hope to..."

I am pretty just about anything is more efficient to collect energy from the sun than black ashphalt covered by prestine white snow.

The fact that it is to be pointed out is sad.

[tooki]

Ummm... And how would a solar pavement not become equally covered in snow? You seem to be failing at even the most rudimentary logic, sorry.

[zapta]

Yes they do, they're just smarter than you, and have spent their entire careers on it.

If they know it is not reflected in their failed models and predictions (referring to the IPCC crowd).

Focusing on authority and career length is bad science.

[dannyf]

"And how would a solar pavement not become equally covered in snow? You seem to be failing at even the most rudimentary logic, sorry."

So we have established that that wonderful black asphalt covered in snow isn't that wonderful at melting snow.

Now, we can refocus you at understanding how snowplow may not be necessary with our solar walkway: what energy source do you think the solar walkwaybis connected to? Would it be too difficult to envision utilizing that energy source to melt snow fall on the solar walk way?

Think about it for a second I think the answer will come to you.

[tszaboo]

"And how would a solar pavement not become equally covered in snow? You seem to be failing at even the most rudimentary logic, sorry."

So we have established that that wonderful black asphalt covered in snow isn't that wonderful at melting snow.

Now, we can refocus you at understanding how snowplow may not be necessary with our solar walkway: what energy source do you think the solar walkwaybis connected to? Would it be too difficult to envision utilizing that energy source to melt snow fall on the solar walk way?

Think about it for a second I think the answer will come to you.

It came to us, but we are equipped with basic common sense.
You need a lot of energy to melt snow. I saw 300W/m2 figures, to melt 4cm of snow per hour (if the temperature is 0 degrees). After you melted, you got some that awful efficiency system, which is even handicapped becuase it is winter, it was about 7% peak of the nominal capacity (today, here) for something like 10W for the same size, for 8 hours. Even with best calculation, you need days to melt 4 cm snow. If the temperature is below 0 degrees, the numbers are even worse.
And you actually need to clean the road, because of cars.
And snow has to be melted evenly, across the entire size, otherwise you loose your efficiency even more.

[electr_peter]

Road heating is a terrible idea. I do not know why it is even discussed. Some issues with this idea, just to name a few:

• It is very inefficient and costly way to remove snow build from the roads. On top of that, most energy are simply wasted to environment without even melting the snow. Consider very high specific heat of ice/snow/water. Snow plows is the way to go.
• Snow is less of a problem than ice for roads. Heating can convert snowy road to icy road - not good at all.
• Most issues with too much snow are experienced in rural and remote areas - both due to lower maintenance and lower traffic intensity. Heating massive road areas in rural areas makes no sense whatsoever. On the other hand, urban roads with high traffic heat up slightly from passing cars and have more snow plows passing rendering additional heating useless.
• Cost wise it is much more efficient to use snow-plows with salt mixture. Also, proper winter tires (soft compound or with metal studs) on all 4 wheels must be installed (not that all season tire rubbish).

Road heating can work (some people are heating their driveways; some pavements are heated in city centres), but it is very costly, inefficient and cumbersome to implement. It is pretty obvious to people living in colder climate and experience with snow/ice on roads.

[tom66]

"At least you acknowledge there is global warming (albeit the French doing it by planting trees)..."

I thought it scientifically incorrect to say "global warming". " climate change" I think is the new term the climate scientists have asked us to use, in order to say their models.

Both global warming and climate change are valid.

Global warming happens as a whole. Climate change is the result of global warming: local temperatures may rise or fall independently but global average temperatures will slowly go up. Similarly weather patterns may change. They may get worse (increased rain in flood prone areas; less rain in drought prone areas etc.) or potentially get better, but it is very hard to say with any significant degree of accuracy what will happen. Rather, it is just an insanely bad idea to put ourselves in the same test tube whilst figuring out what tweaking X may or may not do to Y.

I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you hundreds of times and so I can only guess you keep repeating this nonsense is it supports your point of view that scientists are in on some kind of global conspiracy or something like that to lie to everyone about AGW (anthropogenic global warming.)

[tooki]

"And how would a solar pavement not become equally covered in snow? You seem to be failing at even the most rudimentary logic, sorry."

So we have established that that wonderful black asphalt covered in snow isn't that wonderful at melting snow.

Now, we can refocus you at understanding how snowplow may not be necessary with our solar walkway: what energy source do you think the solar walkwaybis connected to? Would it be too difficult to envision utilizing that energy source to melt snow fall on the solar walk way?

Think about it for a second I think the answer will come to you.

The energy source of a solar panel is light. The output the panel connected to is the power grid, but if we need to use that to power the heaters, then by definition the solar walkway is consuming more energy than it's producing. That's just idiotic.

[dannyf]

The energy source of a solar panel is light. The output the panel connected to is the power grid, but if we need to use that to power the heaters, then by definition the solar walkway is consuming more energy than it's producing. That's just idiotic.

So your house with a solar panel also takes energy from the grid, from time to time. Does that make the homeowner idiotic for putting the solar panel there?

I guess I was over-confident in your thinking capabilities.