General > General Technical Chat
Solid state batteries, vaporware or the future of electric vehicles?
coppice:
--- Quote from: aabbcc on December 21, 2020, 09:17:30 pm ---For example the company Quantumscape is a specializing in these together in partnership with Volkswagen, they recently held a presentation where they showcase data from the batteries which seems too good to be true? Albeit these won't be in production until 4-5 years from now.
--- End quote ---
When something is 4-5 years from production that usually means they have some interesting working prototypes in the lab, but haven't figured out how to mass produce the things in volume at reasonable cost. That seems to be the state for everyone working on solid state batteries right now. Their performance looks very promising, but translating a prototype into a volume production item doesn't always work out well. Sometimes things can be made, but unforeseen long term degradation or failure modes cause products to be withdrawn. I can't imagine any car maker is betting their future on solid state batteries right now. They will be preparing supply chains for both current lithium and solid state options...... and trying hard to get someone else to bare the financial burden of the chain that gets dumped.
Siwastaja:
The biggest challenges new battery technologies try to address are, approximately in this order:
1) Price
2) Energy density
Current liquid electrolyte of the state-of-the-art li-ion cells is neither a large component in price, nor a significant part of the weight.
Even coming up with an imaginary, ideal solid-state replacement weighless electrolyte with zero cost wouldn't translate into battery breakthrough. Both material cost and weight is dominated by the anode, cathode and current collector materials.
The only thing this "solid state" talk is, it's a lithmus test to reveal people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about (as evidenced in this thread, as well).
Also, don't we all know that Toyota's a joke? It's supposed to be a joke, right? Does someone take their decades-long hydrogen speak and now "self-charging hybrid" seriously?
coppice:
--- Quote from: NANDBlog on December 22, 2020, 05:24:23 pm ---
--- Quote ---Toyota’s Deputy Chief mentioned that he intends for Toyota to sell at least 5.5 million EVs a year globally by 2025.
--- End quote ---
So now it's 5.5 million a year? I guess it is a combination of translation error, internal communication (lack of), and news sites repeating old information.
Anyway, they are ding something (yay), and they have an electric platform.
--- End quote ---
When did you last see a journalist accurately report what their sources said?
--- Quote from: NANDBlog on December 22, 2020, 05:24:23 pm ---Dont trash those hybrid cars, they are much more fuel efficient than regular ICE.
--- End quote ---
I agree. People have been so whiny about those ads. They clearly describe, in a couple of sentances, what the car actually offers, and a Toyota Atkinson engine plus hybrid drive achieves a fuel efficiency like most diesel cars, but with lower pollutant output.
wraper:
--- Quote from: NANDBlog on December 22, 2020, 05:24:23 pm ---Dont trash those hybrid cars, they are much more fuel efficient than regular ICE.
--- End quote ---
It's not about trashing hybrids. It's about their marketing. BTW their bullshit was banned in Norway. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30675773/norway-lexus-commercial-self-charging-hybrid/
--- Quote ---Lexus pulls ad claiming battery charging is free on hybrids, but it stands by its claim that "self charging" is exactly what a gasoline-electric hybrid does when it recharges the battery while you drive.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---So now it's 5.5 million a year? I guess it is a combination of translation error, internal communication (lack of), and news sites repeating old information.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, except they are not electric cars.
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: coppice on December 22, 2020, 05:30:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: aabbcc on December 21, 2020, 09:17:30 pm ---For example the company Quantumscape is a specializing in these together in partnership with Volkswagen, they recently held a presentation where they showcase data from the batteries which seems too good to be true? Albeit these won't be in production until 4-5 years from now.
--- End quote ---
When something is 4-5 years from production that usually means they have some interesting working prototypes in the lab, but haven't figured out how to mass produce the things in volume at reasonable cost.
--- End quote ---
Mercedes already sells a bus with it. Bus is easy, you dont have to integrate it, as it is just a "box of batteries":
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/ko/Immediately-before-the-rollout-the-new-fully-electric-articulated-bus-the-Mercedes-Benz-eCitaro-G-with-innovative-solid-state-batteries.xhtml?oid=47447805
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on December 22, 2020, 05:34:02 pm ---The biggest challenges new battery technologies try to address are, approximately in this order:
1) Price
2) Energy density
Current liquid electrolyte of the state-of-the-art li-ion cells is neither a large component in price, nor a significant part of the weight.
--- End quote ---
With solid state, you can create a 48V battery pack in one package. Similar to Lead-acid. No housing between cells. No BMS per cell. No separate formation of 3.6V cells. You are smart enough to figure out the rest. Energy density ~2x, price ~1/2.
--- Quote from: coppice on December 22, 2020, 05:35:17 pm ---When did you last see a journalist accurately report what their sources said?
I agree. People have been so whiny about those ads. They clearly describe, in a couple of sentances, what the car actually offers, and a Toyota Atkinson engine plus hybrid drive achieves a fuel efficiency like most diesel cars, but with lower pollutant output.
--- End quote ---
Never really. Yeah, the ads are BS. At least people stopped telling me to plug in my Prius. I guess, the first approach "assume people will understand" didn't work.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version