some USA states replaces trafic lights with flags

[strawberry]

atleast flags cant run out of electricity

[xrunner]

 

The flags wouldn't last a week they would all be stolen by then.

[Stray Electron]

   This is one of my pet peeves. I live less than two miles from one of the largest universities in the US (65,000+ students).  Driving past it reminds me of an old time shooting gallery full of targets zipping back and forth. Students are constantly running across the 8 lane highway without looking and are running in every conceivable direction. Some of them only a few feet from the marked cross walks. ALL of the intersections have lights for pedestrian crossings but none of the pedestrians and bicyclists pay the slightest attention to them.  The TV news in this area is FULL of complaints about pedestrians and bicyclists getting hit by automobiles but every time that I drive past this university I see at least 6 people crossing the road in the middle of the block or ignoring the pedestrians crossing signals.  On game days, you can count on seeing 30+ people doing the same. 

[Monkeh]

   This is one of my pet peeves. I live less than two miles from one of the largest universities in the US (65,000+ students).  Driving past it reminds me of an old time shooting gallery full of targets zipping back and forth. Students are constantly running across the 8 lane highway without looking and are running in every conceivable direction. Some of them only a few feet from the marked cross walks. ALL of the intersections have lights for pedestrian crossings but none of the pedestrians and bicyclists pay the slightest attention to them.  The TV news in this area is FULL of complaints about pedestrians and bicyclists getting hit by automobiles but every time that I drive past this university I see at least 6 people crossing the road in the middle of the block or ignoring the pedestrians crossing signals.  On game days, you can count on seeing 30+ people doing the same.

I do have to wonder if you watched that video and took in any of the points made..

[Ed.Kloonk]

   This is one of my pet peeves. I live less than two miles from one of the largest universities in the US (65,000+ students).  Driving past it reminds me of an old time shooting gallery full of targets zipping back and forth. Students are constantly running across the 8 lane highway without looking and are running in every conceivable direction. Some of them only a few feet from the marked cross walks. ALL of the intersections have lights for pedestrian crossings but none of the pedestrians and bicyclists pay the slightest attention to them.  The TV news in this area is FULL of complaints about pedestrians and bicyclists getting hit by automobiles but every time that I drive past this university I see at least 6 people crossing the road in the middle of the block or ignoring the pedestrians crossing signals.  On game days, you can count on seeing 30+ people doing the same.

I do have to wonder if you watched that video and took in any of the points made..

I started to watch and the ADD kicked in. FFowared a few times. Still came away empty handed. From what I saw I suspect the pertinent info and the punchline could be condensed down to two minutes not half an hour. Jesus Christ.

[james_s]

There's a crosswalk near me that has a traffic signal and also used to have flags, I never used one of the silly little flags and I think they disappeared some years ago. Either way nobody is replacing traffic lights with flags, rather the flags are *added* to intersections occasionally, some of which have a traffic light already, others are just plain crosswalks with no signals. Nothing is being replaced.

[strawberry]

5min to get into car and 5min to drive and park (car might be hot in summer as well ) quite a task to accomplish simple thing
or simply walk 5min to get there (guess students go for coffee brake ..)

[tom66]

It's just the problem with car centric planning:  It isn't *bad* to use a car when needed, but it's bad to design a city in such a way that it's bloody hard to use anything *but* a car.  NotJustBikes has some fantastic videos on this.  And it's the older European cities that got this right:  London, Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin...  They still have car infrastructure, but most people use buses/bikes/trains/scooters in those cities.  If London had only cars and buses, you can bet that it would be even more of a gridlocked mess. 

Most American towns experienced huge post WWII growth spurts, with the middle class booming and demanding a huge detached house with two car driveway on a sprawling surburban estate.  These towns don't usually have massive traffic issues (except maybe downtown), because there just isn't the space for the traffic.  But they do have insane infrastructure requirements per person.  Just compare the density of e.g. suburban Dallas to suburban London (anything within the M25 but outside of Zone 3 is 'suburban' for London, mostly houses with small shopping and business districts scattered about) and you will see the difference.   It's going to bankrupt many US cities eventually, because the growth will stop, and there will be not enough tax income to pay for the huge 6 lane 'stroads' everywhere.

[tggzzz]

   This is one of my pet peeves. I live less than two miles from one of the largest universities in the US (65,000+ students).  Driving past it reminds me of an old time shooting gallery full of targets zipping back and forth. Students are constantly running across the 8 lane highway without looking and are running in every conceivable direction. Some of them only a few feet from the marked cross walks. ALL of the intersections have lights for pedestrian crossings but none of the pedestrians and bicyclists pay the slightest attention to them.  The TV news in this area is FULL of complaints about pedestrians and bicyclists getting hit by automobiles but every time that I drive past this university I see at least 6 people crossing the road in the middle of the block or ignoring the pedestrians crossing signals.  On game days, you can count on seeing 30+ people doing the same.

I do have to wonder if you watched that video and took in any of the points made..

I started to watch and the ADD kicked in. FFowared a few times. Still came away empty handed. From what I saw I suspect the pertinent info and the punchline could be condensed down to two minutes not half an hour. Jesus Christ.

And the points made in those two minutes could be read in <30s.

There has to be a good reason before I start to watch any video.

[Ed.Kloonk]

   .../

I do have to wonder if you watched that video and took in any of the points made..

I started to watch and the ADD kicked in. FFowared a few times. Still came away empty handed. From what I saw I suspect the pertinent info and the punchline could be condensed down to two minutes not half an hour. Jesus Christ.

And the points made in those two minutes could be read in <30s.

There has to be a good reason before I start to watch any video.

I failed to mention that I did go into the y/t video description.

The first two paragraphs:

172,525 views  Premiered 15 hours ago  Visit https://80000hours.org/notjustbikes for free advice and information about finding a career that provides an opportunity to have a positive impact on the world. Sign up to their newsletter today.

Crossing the street should be safe, convenient, and easy, but it isn't. And that's because in the US and Canada, the roads are designed for exactly one purpose: to move lots of cars as quickly as possible.

I'm not attacking the OP, but FMD! 

[SilverSolder]

A real issue in the US (some states, at least) is that it is only relatively recently that pedestrians have the right of way in pedestrian crossings (without lights).

Drivers are simply not used to that, and you often see cars bombing through crossings when they should have stopped...    thankfully, pedestrians are wise enough not to walk out unless they see the cars are stopping, but still....

[james_s]

A real issue in the US (some states, at least) is that it is only relatively recently that pedestrians have the right of way in pedestrian crossings (without lights).

Drivers are simply not used to that, and you often see cars bombing through crossings when they should have stopped...    thankfully, pedestrians are wise enough not to walk out unless they see the cars are stopping, but still....

Do you happen to know which states? To my knowledge pedestrians have always had the right of way, although that doesn't mean some idiot drivers are going to be paying attention and actually yield to them.

[james_s]

It's just the problem with car centric planning:  It isn't *bad* to use a car when needed, but it's bad to design a city in such a way that it's bloody hard to use anything *but* a car.  NotJustBikes has some fantastic videos on this.  And it's the older European cities that got this right:  London, Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin...  They still have car infrastructure, but most people use buses/bikes/trains/scooters in those cities.  If London had only cars and buses, you can bet that it would be even more of a gridlocked mess. 

Most American towns experienced huge post WWII growth spurts, with the middle class booming and demanding a huge detached house with two car driveway on a sprawling surburban estate.  These towns don't usually have massive traffic issues (except maybe downtown), because there just isn't the space for the traffic.  But they do have insane infrastructure requirements per person.  Just compare the density of e.g. suburban Dallas to suburban London (anything within the M25 but outside of Zone 3 is 'suburban' for London, mostly houses with small shopping and business districts scattered about) and you will see the difference.   It's going to bankrupt many US cities eventually, because the growth will stop, and there will be not enough tax income to pay for the huge 6 lane 'stroads' everywhere.

I don't think that will be a problem. With property taxes what they are and rising constantly with land values and the number of people already here it should be no problem to pay for the roads. The problem is that growth keeps occurring even when there is not really space for it. They keep trying to cram more and more houses into the suburbs and it's turning things into a mess. I really wish the population density would drop to about what it was in the 1980s. I love the suburban single family home environment and loathe high density cities. I recognize the need for them but a city like New York or London is about the last place in the civilized world I'd want to live.

[RJSV]

(tom66 posted a few posts back).
Thanks, tom66, for mentioning the non-inclusive nature of the automobile industry, generally, towards those who can't drive, or can't afford (the insurance and maintainance).
Actually, I've been watching, with rising apprehension, how the whole 'Google...SIGN-IN' required thing, for everything from doctor's appointments to buying donuts, (OK, I exaggerated that last one).
  So, as I watched BART commuter train expansion, nearby, I felt it was time, 2009, to give up my car. I hated driving, so walking a lot anyway, and with an expensive and 'unknown' maintainance break-down, it was time.  So, I donated the car, and been reliant on Taxis, some, but mostly transit.
   That whole market forces thing is just too compelling, and like I stated, now that same source dynamic is occuring with on-line required, now.
   OK, now, but can we get some 'REAL' competition...or No ?

[tom66]

I don't think that will be a problem. With property taxes what they are and rising constantly with land values and the number of people already here it should be no problem to pay for the roads. The problem is that growth keeps occurring even when there is not really space for it. They keep trying to cram more and more houses into the suburbs and it's turning things into a mess. I really wish the population density would drop to about what it was in the 1980s. I love the suburban single family home environment and loathe high density cities. I recognize the need for them but a city like New York or London is about the last place in the civilized world I'd want to live.

I do like a big home, but there's no reason it needs to be built like suburbia.

I bought a house recently, which is 10 minutes walk from a few convenience stores, takeaways and about 15 from the actual centre of town walking, less than 5 on a bike.  It's a detached house, it has a large garden and driveway, and for a British home it's pretty decently sized (not American size, but those are uncommon here anyway.)  It's like this because it was built in the 30's and the environment evolved around it, rather than it being planned as part of a massive estate.

The problem is that you see so many estates where it's literally just identikit house one after another after another.  And then nothing but huge Wal-Marts with parking for 1,000 cars to serve them.  The whole environment is actually hostile to walking. Many of these surburban neighbourhoods have no cut-throughs, to allow for quick travel, you have to walk around the roads. (This is usually because a fear of alleyways is that they will attract crime, but statistically there's very little evidence for this.  And there's no reason the paths have to be small -- they can be large green spaces with footpaths with good visibility.)    And even once you leave, you likely walk straight onto a four-lane dual carriageway type road with a 45+ mph speed "limit".  Those roads are just unpleasant to walk along.  They're loud, polluted, cars kick up stones and other crap, and kinda scary if the footpath is small.  Cycling is also often, at best, accommodated by a small painted bike lane, which offers barely any protection to the cyclist compared to cycling in the lane.

These areas are built to be dependent upon the car; if you don't have a car, you pretty much can't live there. The stroads that link them split up neighbourhoods, and limit pedestrian traffic. 

Compare, for instance, Toronto's central single-family homes:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@43.678284,-79.3879489,3a,75y,94.49h,93.64t/data=

to a modern-ish Colorado single family home sprawl:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@40.0486078,-105.2522135,3a,60y,2.97h,86.25t/data=

They look more or less the same from the street, but go to the map, and see that in the Toronto case, the houses are built adjacent useful infrastructure; there's light rail (x2), a nearby town centre, a park to walk the dog...  Whereas in Colorado, there's... nothing. Well, not unless you get in your car.

That's the problem with suburbia more than anything else.  If you have the density, it's self-funding. Think about all of the tax revenue those businesses bring in. The commuter traffic using trains reduces the infrastructure demand on roads.  The parks make people feel better about where they live and pollution will be less because people aren't driving everywhere.  But it's actually illegal to build places like that area in Toronto in many cities, because zoning laws mean that an area is "just housing" or "just commercial". 

[james_s]

You'd think that, however for whatever reason living in a dense city tends to be far more expensive, it never made any sense to me but you can typically get a detached house in the suburbs for the price of a smaller condominium in a high rise in the city. To each their own but I like the suburbs, they tend to be isolated from the hustle, bustle, noise and crime of the cities, and it's not a big deal to take a car to a park & ride or city center. The USA is huge and spread out so you pretty much need a car anyway, it would take hours to get from one city to another by transit, the way it's set up the bus only really works to go between the city and the suburbs or from one part of the city to another. There are parks in many of our suburbs, there's one just around the corner from my house. I can also walk from here to the downtown area of the small city I live on the edge. In practice I usually drive though because if I go somewhere I'm often picking up a bunch of stuff I don't want to carry or I'm in a hurry. I can walk in 45 minutes or I can hop in my car and get there in 5. I will say I can't stand those cookie cutter developments where all the houses are identical. My suburb is from the era where there were dozens of plans to choose from and most of the houses are different. There is one other on my street that is identical but a mirror image of mine but the rest are different. There is no HOA so the houses are all different colors with all different landscaping, I like it.

[thm_w]

I hate crosswalks, that flag one definitely takes the cake for worst crosswalk though.

Problem is its so damn expensive to install stop lights, around $150,000 here.
Recently person was hit and killed near a fairly popular crossing with no crosswalk, thankfully they realized painting lines on the road would do f-all, so they put in a solar powered crosswalk station. I believe the cost of those is around $20,000. Panels are fairly small, maybe 40x40cm on each side of the road, should be more than enough power if they have a decent sized LiFe battery.

Would like to see more of the solar lights being used.

[xrunner]

I read somewhere a couple years ago, that the pedestrian crossing button on many streets doesn't do anything at all - it isn't wired in. It's simply there to give the pedestrian some "sense of control" so they will wait after they push the button (thinking the system has accepted their request) and not cross early. 

[SiliconWizard]

What's the point?

[thm_w]

I read somewhere a couple years ago, that the pedestrian crossing button on many streets doesn't do anything at all - it isn't wired in. It's simply there to give the pedestrian some "sense of control" so they will wait after they push the button (thinking the system has accepted their request) and not cross early. 

What's the point?

Yes, some are some aren't.
If the light is on a fixed cycle, its going to change in X minutes anyway, and that X minutes might be specifically synced to optimize traffic. So having the button change the timing would not be good.

Having the walk button there means, if they wanted to change the button response at a later date they could. Probably reduces the chances of people running across too, if they think their press sped things up?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ever-wonder-why-this-button-doesn-t-always-work-we-ve-got-the-answer-1.3832244

[tom66]

You'd think that, however for whatever reason living in a dense city tends to be far more expensive, it never made any sense to me but you can typically get a detached house in the suburbs for the price of a smaller condominium in a high rise in the city. To each their own but I like the suburbs, they tend to be isolated from the hustle, bustle, noise and crime of the cities, and it's not a big deal to take a car to a park & ride or city center. The USA is huge and spread out so you pretty much need a car anyway, it would take hours to get from one city to another by transit, the way it's set up the bus only really works to go between the city and the suburbs or from one part of the city to another. There are parks in many of our suburbs, there's one just around the corner from my house. I can also walk from here to the downtown area of the small city I live on the edge. In practice I usually drive though because if I go somewhere I'm often picking up a bunch of stuff I don't want to carry or I'm in a hurry. I can walk in 45 minutes or I can hop in my car and get there in 5. I will say I can't stand those cookie cutter developments where all the houses are identical. My suburb is from the era where there were dozens of plans to choose from and most of the houses are different. There is one other on my street that is identical but a mirror image of mine but the rest are different. There is no HOA so the houses are all different colors with all different landscaping, I like it.

But that's the problem:  Cars are necessary for many, but we don't have to make them necessary for everyday life.  I don't think you'll ever get Americans to willingly give up their cars, but if they could walk to the shops, or get to work on a train, then there would be massive secondary benefits.  You'd have less air pollution, a generally healthier population (I think the US health department recommends 30 minutes of light exercise per day - walking to and from the metro station compared to driving easily provides that) and people would be happier - there's a lot of evidence to show how stressed driving makes people.  Road fatalities would also be lower and it'd be more pleasant to drive when you need because everyone is there for a reason rather than driving because there is no viable alternative.

A 45 minute walk isn't the worst case, there are many suburban developments (identikit style or not) that have no or virtually no pedestrian destinations for hours of walking. We should be building mixed-zone cities. It doesn't mean doing away with single family homes, but it does mean that the idea of one single family home after another will disappear as a concept. Instead, it will be a mix.  You will have higher density homes, single family homes, condos, and businesses all in one area.

[tooki]

A real issue in the US (some states, at least) is that it is only relatively recently that pedestrians have the right of way in pedestrian crossings (without lights).

Drivers are simply not used to that, and you often see cars bombing through crossings when they should have stopped...    thankfully, pedestrians are wise enough not to walk out unless they see the cars are stopping, but still....

I don’t think it’s ever been the case in USA that pedestrians didn't have the right of way at unsignaled crosswalks. But it’s so poorly enforced that many drivers think they have automatic right of way. (That of course begs the question of what the point of a crosswalk would be…)

[strawberry]

soon batman will begin using cars like he doent have superpowers

[SilverSolder]

A real issue in the US (some states, at least) is that it is only relatively recently that pedestrians have the right of way in pedestrian crossings (without lights).

Drivers are simply not used to that, and you often see cars bombing through crossings when they should have stopped...    thankfully, pedestrians are wise enough not to walk out unless they see the cars are stopping, but still....

Do you happen to know which states? To my knowledge pedestrians have always had the right of way, although that doesn't mean some idiot drivers are going to be paying attention and actually yield to them.

It is definitely relatively recent in CT.  2021?

" The newly enacted law requires drivers to slow down or stop under the following limited circumstances:
 
If the pedestrian is within any portion of the crosswalk;
If by stepping to the curb at the crosswalk entrance, the pedestrian indicates an intent to cross by raising a hand or arm to oncoming traffic; and
If the pedestrian signals an intent to cross by moving any body part or extension of a body part into the crosswalk including a leashed dog, stroller, wheelchair, cane or walking stick.
This legislation was enacted in part because of the increase in pedestrian injuries and fatalities occurring in crosswalks. It has been estimated that there was a 55% increase in the number of pedestrian deaths for the 10-year period ending in 2018."

[Rick Law]

[ ... ]
But that's the problem:  Cars are necessary for many, but we don't have to make them necessary for everyday life.  I don't think you'll ever get Americans to willingly give up their cars, but if they could walk to the shops, or get to work on a train, then there would be massive secondary benefits. 
[ ... ]

A 45 minute walk isn't the worst case, there are many suburban developments (identikit style or not) that have no or virtually no pedestrian destinations for hours of walking.

[ ... ]

America is very different from Europe (where I have spend a good amount of time) and presumably England.  Many live outside of large cities (> 100K residence).  I had spend some time in places where you wont see a soul in a 45 minutes walk.  Even the nearest police station was around 30 minutes drive away.  If you don't own a car in those places, you don't get to do anything.

In my State, we do have pedestrians always having the right of way on city/town roads.  Highways (and county roads) are exceptions.  Whenever exceptions are posted, the posted rules would be the ones to follow.

This pedestrians always having right of way is good and bad.  It encourages jaywalking making accidents more likely.

Now the electronics related part:  I would not be surprised if someday your phone will ring/vibrate telling you that you crossed outside of designated crossings and with a link to pay your jaywalking ticket...

Unrelated but will benefit you to know:

Towns are always looking for $.  New drivers and visitors to the USA be aware, driving through small towns, good to look out for speed traps and stern traffic law enforcement (such as, intruding on to the solid-white line that marks separate lane from road shoulder or turning without turn signal types of minor things).  Traffic tickets are significant revenue contributor for some small towns.    You could fight the ticket, but court dates/time would be very early like 7:30am or some such.  So, instead of taking a morning off from work and wake up way earlier than usual to drive hours back to that town to fight the darn ticket, you simply pay it.

Very often, you are going through a town with 20 or 25 MPH zone.  As you are leaving town, you see a big  50 MPH sign a hundred feet or so ahead right after the traffic light.  The light turn green and you see the 50 MPH sign just ahead, so you accelerate out of the traffic light accordingly.  As you past the sign, a traffic cop pull you over...  Well, 50 MPH doesn't start until after the sign, so, you are still at the 20/25 mph limit.  The cops knows many would begin accelerating to the next sign (50 MPH) exceeding the 20/25 posted well before reaching the sign.  That is a revenue collection spot for them.