Spying on the Scammers UK TV

[StillTrying]

Panorama 20:30 tonight is about the fake m$ callers claiming to fix your PCs.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fzx2

[Zero999]

This is pretty old. I'm surprised they haven't done a documentary about it before.

[Lord of nothing]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBNG0osIBAprVcZZ3ic84vw/videos

[Zero999]

I saw the documentary. It was good but could have had more about how one should protect themselves against scammers. I know it should be obvious, even to the most non-technical person: turn of your device/PC and/or hang up the phone, but some people need it spelling out to them.

[Lord of nothing]

The sad think No one talk about the Turkish scammer who scam a lot of German speaking People from Turkey.

[Zero999]

The sad think No one talk about the Turkish scammer who scam a lot of German speaking People from Turkey.

Probably because it's a drop in the ocean, compared to the Indian scam call centres?

Yes, there are similar scams in other countries. Jim Browning did do a video explaining not all scammers are Indian, although I don't think he mentioned Turkish scammers preying on Germans.

[Lord of nothing]

Sry I can't quote on my phone.
Its a huge problem. The main difference 8s the just do it by phone. The pretend to be from a Newspaper agency and try to convince people to order a newspaper to get a worthless voucher for an expensive turkey holiday.
So how to catch this scammer?

[SilverSolder]

Sry I can't quote on my phone.
Its a huge problem. The main difference 8s the just do it by phone. The pretend to be from a Newspaper agency and try to convince people to order a newspaper to get a worthless voucher for an expensive turkey holiday.
So how to catch this scammer?

In Middle Eastern cultures, it seems the onus is on the ordinary person to not be gullible...   whereas in northern countries, the onus is on the scammers to not be scammers!  I like the Middle Eastern approach better...

[Zero999]

Sry I can't quote on my phone.
Its a huge problem. The main difference 8s the just do it by phone. The pretend to be from a Newspaper agency and try to convince people to order a newspaper to get a worthless voucher for an expensive turkey holiday.
So how to catch this scammer?

In Middle Eastern cultures, it seems the onus is on the ordinary person to not be gullible...   whereas in northern countries, the onus is on the scammers to not be scammers!  I like the Middle Eastern approach better...

I disagree. It's not right to allow people to pick on the weak and vulnerable.

[StillTrying]

I didn't think the program was all that good, the best bit was probably the anti-scammers having hacked the scammer's cameras and 70,000 of the victims details.

[Stray Electron]

Sry I can't quote on my phone.
Its a huge problem. The main difference 8s the just do it by phone. The pretend to be from a Newspaper agency and try to convince people to order a newspaper to get a worthless voucher for an expensive turkey holiday.
So how to catch this scammer?

In Middle Eastern cultures, it seems the onus is on the ordinary person to not be gullible...   whereas in northern countries, the onus is on the scammers to not be scammers!  I like the Middle Eastern approach better...

I disagree. It's not right to allow people to pick on the stupid.

   Fixed it for you.  While I agree that it shouldn't be allowed, it's impossible to stop and scams have been going on for as long as people have been around and people need to learn not be be so gullible. "Buyer Beware", "A fool and his money are soon separated", "there's a sucker born every minute", "don't buy a pig in a poke", "if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is".  How many times and ways to do you to tell people not to be scammed?   To start with, simply DO NOT do business with telemarkerters, EVER! No ifs, ands, maybes or buts.

[chickadee]

There will always be people less fortunate, more gullible, not as "smart" as others, and taking advantage of this is evil, whether or not you think that you can blame it on the victim.

This is why capitol punishment is great...  You make examples of those "stupid" enough to prey on the "stupid" 

Eventually, either they wise up and stop taking advantage, or there is none of them left!

[Zero999]

Sry I can't quote on my phone.
Its a huge problem. The main difference 8s the just do it by phone. The pretend to be from a Newspaper agency and try to convince people to order a newspaper to get a worthless voucher for an expensive turkey holiday.
So how to catch this scammer?

In Middle Eastern cultures, it seems the onus is on the ordinary person to not be gullible...   whereas in northern countries, the onus is on the scammers to not be scammers!  I like the Middle Eastern approach better...

I disagree. It's not right to allow people to pick on the stupid.

   Fixed it for you.  While I agree that it shouldn't be allowed, it's impossible to stop and scams have been going on for as long as people have been around and people need to learn not be be so gullible. "Buyer Beware", "A fool and his money are soon separated", "there's a sucker born every minute", "don't buy a pig in a poke", "if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is".  How many times and ways to do you to tell people not to be scammed?   To start with, simply DO NOT do business with telemarkerters, EVER! No ifs, ands, maybes or buts.

I don't think the victims are simply stupid. There's clearly a pattern: they're all over 50. Ignorance is more likely to blame, than gullibility. Younger people don't get caught, because they grew up using computers. Lots of older people have no idea and are easily duped.

I hope my parents are safe from this shit. My mum is totally clueless about computers so never uses one and my dad knows to just turn off the PC and hang up on anyone claiming to be tech support, Microsoft, Google etc. I've also told them to be wary of anyone who randomly calls up about their bank account, Internet/phone etc. and to never give any information to them.

It's completely unacceptable to blame the victim, irrespective of how stupid you might think they've been. Imagine a vulnerable relative or friend of yours fell victim to one of this cunts. Someone I know got tricked into taking indecent images of themself and emailing them to a bully, who was pretending to be a famous pop star. Some may blame the victim, but they couldn't help the fact, they have a learning disability, making them easy prey.

People should do what they can to protect themselves from falling victim to crime, but there will always be a small subsection of society who will incapable of this for whatever reason.

[station240]

I didn't think the program was all that good, the best bit was probably the anti-scammers having hacked the scammer's cameras and 70,000 of the victims details.

About a year ago another group got into a scammer operation, sabotaged everything they could.
1. Company bank account, passwords and account recovery all changed, all the payments refunded to the people they scammed.
2. Staff (scammers) personal Facebook accounts meddled with, to show their actual jobs, family members disowned them.
3. Boss's personal mobile phone voice mail password changed, altered message in fake indian account is rude and tells people where to go.
4. All their computers were wiped, or had ransonware installed, (I forget which).

Youtube is too PC so the video that shows all the above got deleted.

[SilverSolder]

Sry I can't quote on my phone.
Its a huge problem. The main difference 8s the just do it by phone. The pretend to be from a Newspaper agency and try to convince people to order a newspaper to get a worthless voucher for an expensive turkey holiday.
So how to catch this scammer?

In Middle Eastern cultures, it seems the onus is on the ordinary person to not be gullible...   whereas in northern countries, the onus is on the scammers to not be scammers!  I like the Middle Eastern approach better...

I disagree. It's not right to allow people to pick on the stupid.

   Fixed it for you.  While I agree that it shouldn't be allowed, it's impossible to stop and scams have been going on for as long as people have been around and people need to learn not be be so gullible. "Buyer Beware", "A fool and his money are soon separated", "there's a sucker born every minute", "don't buy a pig in a poke", "if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is".  How many times and ways to do you to tell people not to be scammed?   To start with, simply DO NOT do business with telemarkerters, EVER! No ifs, ands, maybes or buts.

I don't think the victims are simply stupid. There's clearly a pattern: they're all over 50. Ignorance is more likely to blame, than gullibility. Younger people don't get caught, because they grew up using computers. Lots of older people have no idea and are easily duped.

I hope my parents are safe from this shit. My mum is totally clueless about computers so never uses one and my dad knows to just turn off the PC and hang up on anyone claiming to be tech support, Microsoft, Google etc. I've also told them to be wary of anyone who randomly calls up about their bank account, Internet/phone etc. and to never give any information to them.

It's completely unacceptable to blame the victim, irrespective of how stupid you might think they've been. Imagine a vulnerable relative or friend of yours fell victim to one of this cunts. Someone I know got tricked into taking indecent images of themself and emailing them to a bully, who was pretending to be a famous pop star. Some may blame the victim, but they couldn't help the fact, they have a learning disability, making them easy prey.

People should do what they can to protect themselves from falling victim to crime, but there will always be a small subsection of society who will incapable of this for whatever reason.

Preying on loneliness and other human needs is as old as history.  -  I know people that let themselves be scammed despite knowing better, just because their need for what the scammer was giving them was so strong they couldn't stop themselves. 

Obviously you are right in saying that it is the scammer is the criminal, but the victim plays a part in it too.

[tom66]

   Fixed it for you.  While I agree that it shouldn't be allowed, it's impossible to stop and scams have been going on for as long as people have been around and people need to learn not be be so gullible. "Buyer Beware", "A fool and his money are soon separated", "there's a sucker born every minute", "don't buy a pig in a poke", "if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is".  How many times and ways to do you to tell people not to be scammed?   To start with, simply DO NOT do business with telemarkerters, EVER! No ifs, ands, maybes or buts.

Do you consider senile elderly people to be "stupid" and therefore fair game?

[StillTrying]

Would this be a good time to ring up some old people and tell them that their computer has a corona virus.

[Gyro]

A bit hard for the police to ignore once it's been on the BBC...

Scam call centre owner in custody after BBC investigation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51740214

Let's hope they go around and check out the neighbours too!

[jmelson]

Would this be a good time to ring up some old people and tell them that their computer has a corona virus.

Somebody sent an anonymous post card to our auto repair shop saying their Toyota wouldn't start, does it have the Corolla virus?

They are waiting to see if somebody owns up to sending the gag!

Jon

[Buriedcode]

It is always interesting to see people claim that those who fall for scams are just stupid - as often it is that attitude that allows people to be scammed.  Plenty of well educated people fall prey to scams, because of the "well, I'm too clever to be wrong".  Just look at how many Nobel prize winners went off the rails with pseudoscience.   

Engineers are also vulnerable to scams, and whilst its easy to scoff at those victims who fall for it, of course the perpetrators should be punished.

[Nominal Animal]

I'm particularly easy target for confidence gamers, those who use social skills to engineer responses they need to gain advantage.
I definitely don't think it has anything to do with stupid or intelligence, just social skills.  Mine aren't that great; I think too much, and am too easily swayed by dangling a hard-to-solve problem in front of me.

I tend to not fall to email scams and such, where I can construct my response; it's the real-time social situation that gets me.  And I have seen lots, from various billing scams to inept subcontractors to clients who see you as a source of work/resources to be exploited with such exploits being a "win", and so on.  Also, I tend to not fall to the money scams, but to the more personal ones.

Scamming is a skill, and countering/shielding from scams is another.   You don't need to be stupid to fall for a scam, just unaware and too trusting.

I would like scammers to be severely punished, severely enough to make that way of life a non-starter.  Instead, we have people who glorify it, as heist movies and such (Ocean's Eleven comes to mind).  Indentured servitude for twice the amount of resources at risk would be a good starting point, in my opinion, but my opinion is probably a bit too severe.

[Zero999]

I'm particularly easy target for confidence gamers, those who use social skills to engineer responses they need to gain advantage.
I definitely don't think it has anything to do with stupid or intelligence, just social skills.  Mine aren't that great; I think too much, and am too easily swayed by dangling a hard-to-solve problem in front of me.

I tend to not fall to email scams and such, where I can construct my response; it's the real-time social situation that gets me.  And I have seen lots, from various billing scams to inept subcontractors to clients who see you as a source of work/resources to be exploited with such exploits being a "win", and so on.  Also, I tend to not fall to the money scams, but to the more personal ones.

Scamming is a skill, and countering/shielding from scams is another.   You don't need to be stupid to fall for a scam, just unaware and too trusting.

I would like scammers to be severely punished, severely enough to make that way of life a non-starter.  Instead, we have people who glorify it, as heist movies and such (Ocean's Eleven comes to mind).  Indentured servitude for twice the amount of resources at risk would be a good starting point, in my opinion, but my opinion is probably a bit too severe.

It sounds like you might have some social anxiety. If it's having a negative impact on your work, relationships etc. then you should consider getting help with it.

I think everyone is vulnerable to some kind of scam or con. We all have needs and weaknesses: greed, lust, loneliness etc. which can be exploited by someone cunning enough and with the right means to do so. Being aware of one's weaknesses only puts them in a stronger position. I bet lots of victims thought it would never happen to them.

[Nominal Animal]

It sounds like you might have some social anxiety.

Yeah.  As I have mentioned before, I burned out (more than once) due to forcing myself to run a business when I'm not suited for that kind of operational model, and to work with people who were happy to exploit me, and am now struggling with the after effects.  I was too stubborn to get help (typical Finnish male trait) until I completely broke down, and seem to have all kinds of residual symptoms for the rest of my life.  For example, stress gives me literal rash and some other skin issues.

I can recommend cognitive-behavioural therapy even for rational-analytical scientist/engineer-type person like me.  It's not lying on your back on your sofa and talking about stuff, it is the mental equivalent of going to the gym to become strong enough to deal with whatever you need to; with the therapist being more like a coach helping you find the things you need to work on.  It works.  The physical side effects one learns to live with.

One could even argue that "social anxiety" is the norm for Finns, anyway.  It would certainly explain why Finns and Finland in general are so easily scammed by socially adept operators.  Anyway, my point was that being susceptible to certain forms of scamming or confidence games has nothing to do with stupidity or intelligence, because scamming is a skill not unrelated to how illusionists/magicians do their thing.

[Mr. Scram]

It is always interesting to see people claim that those who fall for scams are just stupid - as often it is that attitude that allows people to be scammed.  Plenty of well educated people fall prey to scams, because of the "well, I'm too clever to be wrong".  Just look at how many Nobel prize winners went off the rails with pseudoscience.   

Engineers are also vulnerable to scams, and whilst its easy to scoff at those victims who fall for it, of course the perpetrators should be punished.

Interestingly about half of people believe they're not susceptible to advertising. Research shows they not only are, but people who believe this are actually more susceptible to it.

[SilverSolder]

It is always interesting to see people claim that those who fall for scams are just stupid - as often it is that attitude that allows people to be scammed.  Plenty of well educated people fall prey to scams, because of the "well, I'm too clever to be wrong".  Just look at how many Nobel prize winners went off the rails with pseudoscience.   

Engineers are also vulnerable to scams, and whilst its easy to scoff at those victims who fall for it, of course the perpetrators should be punished.

Interestingly about half of people believe they're not susceptible to advertising. Research shows they not only are, but people who believe this are actually more susceptible to it.

Plus, they marketers are very clever...  e.g. they have certain brands of cigarettes that are never advertised anywhere, designed to appeal to people  that believe they are not susceptible to advertising!