Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 9752 times)

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Offline innkeeper

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« on: December 16, 2017, 07:03:26 pm »
Such an utter disappointment. I'm totally heart broken.

They just re-hashing old plot lines for a new generation and it just didn't work.  |O
total fail in my opinion!  :--
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2017, 07:35:55 pm »
I bet most here have not been to a theater for a while.  This being a technology related blog, folks here doesn't seem to be the theater going kind but instead watch things on PC/Smartphones and the likes - but that is just my guess.

In my view, Hollywood long since lost it's creative mind.  Most of their block busters are just budget busters.  Too many of their new films are old films redone.  There is an over-reliant on CGI but absence in having a compelling story line.

They are almost like the car industry.  Year to year, same model car is like last year, add a few mostly meaningless gadgets,  make it a little larger and flashier, but overall having hard time matching the excitement or performance the original at introduction.  But, Hollywood is worst than the car industry in some ways.  At least, the car doesn't try to preach a political believe whereas actors and actresses often do.
 
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Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 03:42:53 pm »
I just watch the RLM reviews and Nerd Crew mockery and I find that far more rewarding and funny.
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Offline Marco

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2017, 04:29:06 pm »
How did they manage to rehash anything? I thought the first new movie rehashed pretty much everything.

Father son betrayal in reverse, death star, youth from backwater awakening to power, new Han solo equivalent. The token black guy was original I guess, the most interesting character too.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:43:42 pm by Marco »
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2017, 12:20:42 am »
It was crap.
But i don't like Star Wars as a genre anyway; just got dragged along with the rest of the family.
Maybe someone could reorder all the scenes and put it in youtube.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2017, 02:23:25 am »
How did they manage to rehash anything? I thought the first new movie rehashed pretty much everything.

Yes, I don't understand, what did they "rehash" in The Last Jedi?
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2017, 06:14:17 am »
Having only seen the last trailer myself, I think I noticed that the CGI for Chewbacca was bad and that the large walkers had comical canopy/bridge designs and having monkey fists, and that annoyed me. I have gotten really tired of the stupid shit in the new Star Wars movies, and why would I watch a movie that I know will annoy me? Also, I thought the change to X-Wing design on the backside was silly, basically undermining the premise of these movies, having character with all the known iconic stuff in the first place. I promised myself to not even watch this new one. The plan was to not see The Last Jedi until reviewers had a good look at it, but then I caved in and watched the trailer (I normally try to avoid watching trailers for movies I want to see), and then I got the impression that they keep adding silly things, and that was it. [Needless to say perhaps, I will never watch 'The Last Jedi'.]

I won't discuss what I think is wrong with the actual movie, because I haven't seen it and so it would be silly of me to talk about it I think. :|

Oh, one thing I am wondering about. Does Disney actually own ALL the rights to Star Wars? That penguin alien shown in the trailer reminded me of the creature seen in the very first Star Wars comic, though these other ones fed off energy and had an antenna on their head, and had telepathic capabilities. If they really wanted to re-create or reference that alien from the comic book, surely they could easily do that, or, maybe I am thinking, maybe they don't own the rights to all things in the past like stuff seen in old Star Wars comics. Afaik, the Star Trek franchise is split between two corporations owning the material (movies vs tv-series), and I think I've heard on youtube that this might be why they had to create this quite different look to the new Discovery series. Also, the crystal dog seen in the trailer for The Last Jedi looked to me like a rip off from the beast dog design in the last Riddick movie imo.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 08:19:17 am by Decoman »
 

Offline chriswebb

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2017, 06:25:17 am »
Having seen the last trailer, I think I noticed that the CGI for Chewbacca was bad and that the large walkers had weird canopy/bridge designs and having monkey fists, and that annoyed me. I have gotten realy tired of the stupid shit in the new Star Wars movies, and why would I watch a movie that I know will annoy me? I promised myself to not even watch this new one. The plan was to not see The Last Jedi until reviewers had a good look at it, but then I caved in and watched the trailer (I normally try to avoid watching trailers for movies I want to see), and then I got the impression that they keep adding silly things, and that was it.

I won't discuss what I think is wrong with the actual movie, because I haven't seen it and so it would be silly of me to talk about it I think. :|

Chewbacca was in The Last Jedi? Could have fooled me (hyperole).  But I honestly didn't notice whether he was CGI or not because he was such a minor part of the story relatively and mostly overshadowed by those stupid things. edit: really lets call them merchandising opportunities.

Not sure what I think of this one, yet. First impression is that I enjoyed it more than The Force Awakens but less than Rogue One. I don't really want to compare them to Lucas's work though because those eras were so different. But definitely agreed with Dave about the length. There was a time when you think its about to wrap up into a nice conclusion, but then sudden 180 and action picks right back up again. Felt more like an appendix rather than the natural conclusion because they were trying to force the story... Was in the back of the theater and more than a few people shifted in their seats when that scene took place.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 06:28:40 am by chriswebb »
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 10:59:02 pm »
How did they manage to rehash anything? I thought the first new movie rehashed pretty much everything.

Yes, I don't understand, what did they "rehash" in The Last Jedi?

I think they rehashed quite a lot...

-Movie opens up to rebels rushing to escape from their base which has been discovered and is under assault from empire... escaping by the skin of their teeth just as the base is destroyed (exact same opening as ESB)

-Base comes under attack by AT-AT's, rebel pilots go forth in their little craft to take on the AT-AT's... their plan is ultimately unsuccessful and the empire ends up destroying the base, and we have the scene with the sith lord ransacking the base with his troops, looking for the rebels, only to realize they just escaped moments before (same as in ESB)

-Rebels are in the clutches of the Empire and the only way to escape is to sneak onto the Empire ship and disable the device which is preventing their escape.  In ANH it's Obi-Wan that sneaks in and disables the tractor beam.  In TLJ, it's Rose and Fin that sneak in and disable the tracker.

-Naive and inexperienced Jedi seeks out Jedi master who doesn't want to help.  Jedi at first refuses to train the newbie, but after some time comes around.  The newbie learns that their friends are in imminent danger and wants to rush away to confront the sith lord before their training is complete, believing that there IS still good in the sith lord and they can turn them.  The jedi master says no, you will be tempted by the dark side - you are not strong enough!  The young jedi goes anyway, only to be led right to the sith master by his underling, who gives them the choice... join us or die.  The young jedi holds fast against the temptation of the dark side, and the sith master decides the young jedi will die... except the sith lord at the last moment rebels against his masters plan and kills him.  Straight outta ROTJ.


This is a whole new movie - I don't see why they need to keep dipping into what's already happened in the previous movies for ideas.  They have a completely blank slate and ought to be coming up with more original ideas, IMO.
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Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2017, 11:11:11 pm »
I thought it was ok, but I entered with low expectations. I thought there was a lot of slow drama punctuated by some cool fight scenes however analyzing the situation one has to wonder why they're messing around with light saber hand to hand combat when there are obviously plenty of projectile/energy weapons around. That said, if you spend too much time analyzing, pretty much any sci-fi plot falls apart.

I went as part of a team event for work so it was more fun than working, but generally speaking the theater has little appeal to me anymore. I have a big TV at home, and a much more comfortable seat to sit in. It's not the same as it was back when watching a movie at home meant a VHS tape on a 19" TV with mono sound.
 

Offline calexanian

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 12:08:57 am »
Well, the sith student kills his master, and Luke dissapears like ben and Yoda, and there are several, the rebels escape in the nick of time situations. There was a little recycling of plot points. Something Something dark side, Something Something complete from family guy comes to mind comes to mind.

The biggest thing I am curious about is how did the first order get so big so fast? They went from having the republic in power to suddenly being the same band of rebels on the run in just a few years? It makes no sense and is bad story telling.

The movie looked great, but in their rush to pander to fan service and cram as much Star Wars lore as they could into it the story and movie making suffered quite a bit. I will put it another way. It feels a lot like The Empire Strikes Back.

Another comparison.

I recently watched the extended cut of Star Trek 2 the Wrath of Khan on the big screen a month or so ago. I always had thought of that movie as a good Star Trek move but rather campy and of the time. Watching it now I realized it was an incredibly well made movie that used plot, suspense, and timing to cover over the low budget they had. Characters and dialog mattered.  If you took all of the dialog out of this Star Wars movie and replaced it with Jawa or Minion noises you would not miss a thing. It was so visually based.
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Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2017, 12:12:41 am »
I was a bit annoyed that they had that whole big plot line with the code breaker that went absolutely nowhere. They could have left that entire portion on the cutting room floor and nobody would have noticed.
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2017, 05:26:31 am »
The young jedi goes anyway, only to be led right to the sith master by his underling, who gives them the choice... join us or die.
As if that hasn't been done before.

 

Offline calexanian

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2017, 06:20:45 am »
Yeah. Benecio Del Toro was the most interesting character, and they booted him from the plot asap.
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Offline German_EE

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 03:29:59 pm »
Well, last night I made a terrible mistake, I went to see 'The Last Jedi'. It's probably the worst movie of all nine and to show what I mean I'll concentrate on the mistakes and leave the acting alone for now.

1) Bombers in Space
At the approximate height that the bombers were operating there would be little or no gravity so how are the bombs supposed to fall? In any event one bomber does manage to release it's load and the bombs fall straight down, this is also wrong as the forward movement of the ship would be added to the trajectory and the bombs would fall in a curve.

2) Spaceships Stopping Dead Due to Lack of Fuel
According to Newton's Laws of Motion, a moving body in space will continue to move in the same direction until subjected to an outside force. Spacecraft use their engines only to accelerate and decelerate and if that engine dies from lack of fuel then the vessel will coast in a straight line along its present course whilst maintaining its speed.

3) Spaceships Traveling at Light Speed As A Weapon
Jumping to light speed then ramming another ship, cool idea, why didn't the rebel alliance use this as a weapon before now? Two old clunkers sent into action and both Death Stars would be gone, a few more and every Star Destroyer would be wrecked.

4) A Rebel Base With a Back Door
So, you build a rebel base and equip it with the biggest strongest door the galaxy has ever seen, you then ignore the cave system behind you that has a back door covered by a small layer of boulders. No problem chaps!

5) Leia and the Bridge Explosion
This COULD have been used by Disney as a vehicle to write Carrie Fisher out of the script. If there is a rapid atmosphere release on a spaceship and you're sucked out then you continue to move away as your blood boils and you freeze to death (and this happens within seconds). But no, instead the Princess flies through the void like superwoman and, surprise surprise, she's still alive.

6) The Scar
So, they can travel faster than light, destroy planets and build androids that can speak and translate multiple languages. They can't however make a simple scar on the face vanish.

7) The Dudes in Red
After Snoke is killed why do the dudes in red attack? Their master is dead and Kylo Ren is their new boss so why are they attacking him and Rey?

8) Finn and the Cannon
Finn rides one of those beat-up salt skimmers right up the radiation beam of a big honking space gun. Why isn't he dead?

9) Master Luke's Arm
When at the end Jedi Master Luke Skywalker ascends, or whatever dead Jedi do, why does he take his artificial arm with him?

10) The Scene in the Mirror Cave
The scene where Rey falls through the hole in the ground and encounters multiple images of herself, what was that about?

Maybe this is because of the dumbing down of America, maybe Disney have no actual scientists on the payroll, I don't know, but if this is what the new Star Wars is going to be like I'm not watching anymore.
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Offline rdl

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2017, 05:05:49 pm »
Did spacecraft ever fly realistically in the Star Wars movies?
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2017, 05:19:51 pm »
How did they manage to rehash anything? I thought the first new movie rehashed pretty much everything.

Yes, I don't understand, what did they "rehash" in The Last Jedi?

The whole Star Wars saga is a giant rehash:

The Hero’s Journey

Now they’re just rehashing the rehash.  Still great fun though.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 03:16:39 am by mtdoc »
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2017, 09:50:55 pm »
5) Leia and the Bridge Explosion
This COULD have been used by Disney as a vehicle to write Carrie Fisher out of the script. If there is a rapid atmosphere release on a spaceship and you're sucked out then you continue to move away as your blood boils and you freeze to death (and this happens within seconds). But no, instead the Princess flies through the void like superwoman and, surprise surprise, she's still alive.
Like Superwoman?
I thought it was more like Mary Poppins.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 09:55:25 pm by Circlotron »
 
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Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2017, 10:24:42 pm »
Spaceships Stopping Dead Due to Lack of Fuel

Ah, but you're applying the wrong set of physical laws.

Just because Newton rules here, doesn't mean he does everywhere.  :D
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2017, 10:30:37 pm »
Did spacecraft ever fly realistically in the Star Wars movies?
Did spacecraft ever fly realistically in any movie ?

Answering my own question somewhat 2001 paid goog attention to physics - beyond that?.......
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2017, 10:33:20 pm »
luke skywalkers death
another movie that may disappoint. unless CGI is all that matters.
give this a miss. from what your all saying about it.


about sums it up ?  is this review


 I may just get it, on DVD in 2018 just to see how they mangled my childhood memories




« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 10:59:49 pm by jonovid »
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Offline rogersdd

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2017, 08:29:43 am »
Saw it yesterday and it's just OK... It had a few good moments, but some were just irritating or plain stupid and definitely outweigh them?.
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2017, 08:54:02 am »
Hollywood ran out of ideas several decades ago. However, they do a good job glamorizing guns and violence, and promoting a fantasy world that satisfies corporate interests and the US public buys into as aspirational reality. It makes it a lot easier former actors and real estate tycoons to become President. Ultimately it will lead to the destruction of the US as a global power.

Bob
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2017, 09:16:05 am »
5) Leia and the Bridge Explosion
This COULD have been used by Disney as a vehicle to write Carrie Fisher out of the script. If there is a rapid atmosphere release on a spaceship and you're sucked out then you continue to move away as your blood boils and you freeze to death (and this happens within seconds). But no, instead the Princess flies through the void like superwoman and, surprise surprise, she's still alive.
Like Superwoman?
I thought it was more like Mary Poppins.

Yep, I instantly thought of Marry Poppins, and it was a totally cringeworthy moment.
I didn't agree with her surviving, but fine if they wanted to do that, it's just that the editing on this sucked arse and it was embarrassing.
I was hoping Leia would use the force, and maybe force choke someone or something cool like that, but this was pretty lame.
 

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2017, 09:23:07 am »
Other things I didn't enjoy were:
- The whole Finn and Rose escapade was just stupid and could be cut from the entire movie. So many cringeworthy moment like here saving him, kissing him (which he didn't seem to want), saving the animals as if it's more important than saving the galaxy. I knew that story arc was setting up the kid with the force at the end, but that surely could have been done another way. Every time Finn & Rose came on the story pretty much stopped.
And what's with her going from back room tech(?) to flying the Falcon? BS.

- The purple hair commander, terrible acting. And what's with the whole connection thing with her and Leia and their crush on Poe? It felt awkward.

- Luke dying I didn't agree with, it didn't add anything and they wasted the only major character left from the original franchise who's passionate about it and can act, and could have done so much more cool stuff in #9. I liked the force projection trick, but would have preferred to see Luke do some real Jedi arse kicking. And what's with Rey just beating him with ease?, that's BS. I like Rey, but I think they had her way to powerful too quickly.

- They didn't answer a bunch of stuff, like Snoke (who was actually cool), and Rey's parents was a big letdown, but I know it does advance the "anyone can have the force" concept (which is ok).

And there are other problems, but I still enjoyed it a lot, and even on the 2nd viewing.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 09:32:57 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2017, 12:46:56 pm »
Sounds like too much on the fly scripting.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2017, 05:49:44 pm »
The purple haired commander was played by Laura Dern, someone who can act if she wants to. It was bugging me when I saw her because I was sure I had seen her before so when I got home I jumped on the IMDB.

I'd forgotten about the Finn and Rose thing which really was bad, but I did say that I'd concentrate my criticism on the bad science rather than the bad acting.

Oh, and I REALLY like the Mary Poppins comment  :) A far better description of her flying abilities.
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Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2017, 07:11:10 pm »
Funny, I didn't even notice the ridiculousness of bombers dropping bombs in space, but maybe the ships are vast enough to have their own gravity? You kind of have to forget your entire understanding of basic physics to enjoy any of the Star Wars movies though.
 

Offline chriswebb

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2017, 06:08:49 am »
The worst physics gaffe for me wasn't the bombs, but those arching blaster shots and their ridiculous "range" problems.  The plot wouldnt be possible without their ridiculous inconsistency. They had a planet kill other planets in different solar systems, but they can't hit a spaceship in front of them with their blasters?

It seems like someone came up with this idea and instead of listening to critiques and making the pitch better, decided to come up with excuses to meet the deadline.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2017, 09:36:17 am »
The purple haired commander was played by Laura Dern, someone who can act if she wants to.

I just found the character rather pointless.
They should have had Admiral Ackbar hyperdrive that sucker into the mothership.
 
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2017, 09:37:26 am »
Funny, I didn't even notice the ridiculousness of bombers dropping bombs in space, but maybe the ships are vast enough to have their own gravity? You kind of have to forget your entire understanding of basic physics to enjoy any of the Star Wars movies though.

The physics didn't bother me, it didn't detract from the escapism at all.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2017, 10:51:45 am »
On another board someone pointed out an interesting problem:

We now have two living actors who's characters are dead and one dead actress who's character is still alive in the Star Wars universe.

Sort THAT one out scriptwriters!
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

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Offline jonovid

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2017, 10:56:58 am »
rotten tomatoes
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/

Star Wars: the Last Jedi is one of the top-rated movies according to the critics,
however the majority of moviegoers walked away from the theaters expressing dissatisfaction with characters.
how could a movie so universally applauded by critics not have the same resounding effect on general moviegoers?
maybe its fake movie critics? or payed off movie critics?

based on youtube blogs I have seen. as I do not go to public theaters
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 11:41:55 am by jonovid »
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Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2017, 12:21:05 pm »
how could a movie so universally applauded by critics not have the same resounding effect on general moviegoers?

Some thoughts on that https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

I'm off to see it this afternoon so will reserve judgement until then.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2017, 01:59:11 pm »
While not wanting to comment on a movie I haven't seen,I think there are more obvious pitfalls to anyone working with making a Star Wars movie.

First I want to say that I was weirded out yesterday by seeing this article headline somewhere on some movie news related website, which said something like "40 must watch movies in 2018". Why 40? Seems like a suspiciously high number. As if one would expect you to now go watch a lot more movies, making me wonder if it was now important to have "Hollywood" relying on having a steady income. And I have seen articles making a point out of how "Hollywood" has been making less money the last few years, and critics were sort of blamed for being too harsh on new movies these days. As for myself, there is basically two movies I won't watch: All the 'Transformers' movies (an annoying visual spectacle, with bad directing), and all the 'Pirates of the Caribbean' movies (an annoying auditory spectacle, with bad use of music).

I think the work of ILM (Industrial Light & Magic) in the 80's and around that time, shows a type of craftsmanship to working with geometry and design for miniature models in movies, that isn't there in Star Wars movies of today. And then, there is more to a spaceship design, than mere formalism, in which, you make a spaceship design mimic some recognizable thing, or, just adhering to some overly general characteristic where a spaceship becomes this characterless rounded thing. Then, there's a task for having things making sense, if only for being coherent, and in this, anything 'modern' then becomes more of an impossibility if just tossing out the old and brining in the new, as if it all was a matter of mass appeal, in some cynical view of what people would want to see. Not only would there as I see it, be no back bone by a director conjuring up "new stuff" for mere sake of fascination and spectacle (like with the *gack* Transformers movies), but I see a problem then that the task of working with design for a deeper meaning to things becomes then something trivial, and I think that in a lot of ways those trivialized aspect to a movie can easily be noticed, as long as you care. And I suspect that the fun people at Rotten Tomatoes, and professional movie critics in general, are simply not that into the design of the Star Wars universe, so as to be able to try recognize what makes good sense design wise, and what does not.

Now, it should be clear that the original Star Wars trilogy had obviously some goofy moments, and that was even made worse when George Lucas altered the movies further. Presumably, the goofy stuff was forced already in the original trilogy by Lucas, simply because he was the boss of it all. What then seems obvious, is that some minor things can be forgiven, when the rest is so very nice. And so I was not bothered by minor flaws in costumes and effects watching the original Star Wars trilogy, and generally, if remaining in the mood when watching a movie, I am usually not the one to all of a sudden want to start nit picking on a movie for the sake of just doing so. It is also tempting for me to think think that the movies in the old Star Wars trilogy had a densely layered approach to entertainment to them (music, colors, style, texture, mood, sound, humor, drama, arc typical stories, action, humanity, direction, and ofc. the use of very nicely designed scale models), as opposed to newer Star Wars movies, which seems rushed, superficial and when I notice all the stupid shit, I find it difficult to forgive the movie for that when there is not much else to be happy about.

Without having seen the last Star Wars movie, I've read/heard that The Last Jedi sort of makes some point about the military industrial complex, with arms dealers thriving. Not knowing how this was portrayed as maybe some kind of razor sharp criticism of today's world society, I can't help but wonder if maybe people felt reminded to invest in stocks for weapons manufacturers. Which would be terrible. And any instance of there seemingly being a spineless approach to direction with regard to potentially off-topic issues in a sci-fi movie, at the very least one would be forgiven to think of it all as being really shallow. If I as a viewer have to simply guess at what the intent was, for a movie I would probably be both annoyed and feeling a little uncomfortable. I am curious if there are instanced of the use of the word "balance", "balanced" or "balancing" in The Last Jedi, because people on the internet discussing video games, tend to abuse this word, such that, you end up having to guess at what is meant, which makes any argument discussing this vague idea of 'balance' to be rather pointless, when 'balance' is obviously would have to have a metaphorical meaning to it, when not pertaining to an established equilibrium between two weights on a scale, or something like that. 'Balance' in video games discussions tend to have the meaning of 'change' or 'changing', which hardly qualifies for this notion of there being a meaningful equilibrium, strictly metaphorical or in a literal sense.
 

Offline GK

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2017, 02:13:38 pm »
The critics almost universally gushed praise upon Interstellar, which was jaw-droppingly retarded on every conceivable level. And so they did with that recent Mad Max film. What a complete heap of crap that was - a three hour (or maybe it just felt that long) car chase scene with no movie and a central character who managed to pull off a single facial expression throughout the entire fatuous farce.

I thought that Yoda, ewoks, wookies and glowing-phallus battles and shit were exciting when I was, like, ten. Yawn!  ::) Have you ever seen the guy who played the original wookie - Chewbiscuit or whatever the stupid thing was called? That dude was so freaking ugly it's a wonder that they actually bothered to put him in a costume!


« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 12:45:07 am by GK »
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Offline daqq

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2017, 05:11:49 pm »
Quote
3) Spaceships Traveling at Light Speed As A Weapon
Jumping to light speed then ramming another ship, cool idea, why didn't the rebel alliance use this as a weapon before now? Two old clunkers sent into action and both Death Stars would be gone, a few more and every Star Destroyer would be wrecked.
This, so much this... basically they show that there's a simple method that makes pretty much all defensive and offensive technology useless - which I am sure will never be used again. Just add a hyperdrive to a load of scrap and you can kamikaze the crap out of pretty much any military. Mind you, it looked awesome, but it made no sense that that technique was not used before.

It reminded me of Terminator... only organic stuff (or robotic covered in organic) can be sent into the past (because Plot Reasons...)... sooo... why not simply take a mid range nuclear weapon, cover it in pork, transport it in the general vicinity of the target and boom.
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2017, 01:33:08 am »
The Last Jedi might not have done well in this first weekend box office bean counting state-side, nor the first Monday (thought to be best indicator of adult movie watchers in a review I read)...

But, it sure did well in Kabul, Afghanistan!  Troops stand and waited in line for two hours to get a seat on the first showing.
- Maj. Patrick Currie, who was fifth in line, dressed as Han Solo’s copilot in a Chewbacca...
- Air Force Capt. Madison Scaccia was first in line for the show, dressed as Rey...

Above quoted from here (Stars and Strips):
https://www.stripes.com/news/galaxy-far-far-away-brings-slice-of-home-to-afghanistan-for-holidays-1.503806
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2017, 02:38:18 am »
- Luke dying I didn't agree with, it didn't add anything and they wasted the only major character left from the original franchise who's passionate about it and can act, and could have done so much more cool stuff in #9.

Maybe he was getting too expensive? You can get 10 Reys for one Luke :-DD

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/star-wars-episode-viii-cast-how-much-make.html/

I liked the movie. Right, not a totally new story, but at least it was not a full rehash. For example when Kylo kills Snoke, but then became the bad guy again, not like when Darth Vader killed the emperor. The relation between Kylo and Rey will be interesting in the future. Can she convince him to turn back to the light side again?

The space fights and other fight scenes were awesome as usual for a Star Wars movie. You just have to ignore physical realism and 100% consistency, then you can enjoy the movie.

I didn't think there was too much humor or too much trying. Much better than the previous movie with not much humor. This was always essential for a Star Wars movie. Especially the subtle things, like when Yoda destroyed the temple and Luke complained about the ancient scripts, but then Yoda asked him if he did read it, and Luke's answer was like "well...".
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Offline jonovid

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2017, 04:20:48 am »
- Luke dying I didn't agree with, it didn't add anything and they wasted the only major character left from the original franchise who's passionate about it and can act, and could have done so much more cool stuff in #9.

Maybe he was getting too expensive? You can get 10 Reys for one Luke :-DD

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/star-wars-episode-viii-cast-how-much-make.html/

I liked the movie. Right, not a totally new story, but at least it was not a full rehash. For example when Kylo kills Snoke, but then became the bad guy again, not like when Darth Vader killed the emperor. The relation between Kylo and Rey will be interesting in the future. Can she convince him to turn back to the light side again?

The space fights and other fight scenes were awesome as usual for a Star Wars movie. You just have to ignore physical realism and 100% consistency, then you can enjoy the movie.

I didn't think there was too much humor or too much trying. Much better than the previous movie with not much humor. This was always essential for a Star Wars movie. Especially the subtle things, like when Yoda destroyed the temple and Luke complained about the ancient scripts, but then Yoda asked him if he did read it, and Luke's answer was like "well...".

just got this news in-

Even with 'Star Wars' surge, moviegoing could hit 22-year low. Blame bad sequels, rising ticket prices and streaming
http://beta.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-box-office-challenges-20171223-story.html#nt=oft12aH-1gp2'

http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/23/box-office-last-jedi-now-running-over-100-mil-behind-force-awakens
The Last Jedi.” The new “Star Wars” movie is running over $120 million behind the last one on a day to day comparison



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Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2017, 04:30:17 am »
Streaming? That's just a scapegoat. My movie going had taken a sharp downturn long before I'd ever streamed a movie. What did it for me is a combination of so many garbage movies coming out and having a big TV and decent sound at home. Overall watching a movie on my sofa is more comfortable and all around a more pleasant experience, a fair trade for the smaller screen, not even considering the fact that I don't have to buy tickets or pay a fortune for a bucket of popcorn.
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2017, 07:48:52 am »
I liked the movie. Right, not a totally new story, but at least it was not a full rehash. For example when Kylo kills Snoke, but then became the bad guy again, not like when Darth Vader killed the emperor. The relation between Kylo and Rey will be interesting in the future. Can she convince him to turn back to the light side again?

I like the whole Kylo/Rey thing in the Last Jedi, made for an interesting story line and it worked well.
And it was a good choice to get Kylo out of that stupid mask early on.

Quote
The space fights and other fight scenes were awesome as usual for a Star Wars movie. You just have to ignore physical realism and 100% consistency, then you can enjoy the movie.

Probably the best battles of any Star Wars I thought, very well done.
 

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2017, 08:08:57 am »
how could a movie so universally applauded by critics not have the same resounding effect on general moviegoers?

Some thoughts on that https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

TLDR; breakdown of the reasons for backlash from fans:
1) Too much progressivism
2) The jokes are too jokey
3) The movie is uninterested in fan theories
4) Individual plot lines/moments don’t make sense
5) The characters’ journeys aren’t what was expected

 

Offline chriswebb

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2017, 08:28:09 am »
5) The characters’ journeys aren’t what was expected

This is my biggest issue with the film. Basically it feels like there is no real continuity from 7 to 8. A story for 7-9 should have been established before a word was even written for 7. From what I am gathering through various articles that there was no plans after 7 and Rian Johnson had full creative control to go in whatever direction. And because the series was winding down on the old characters, the characters were basically thrown out to make way for a renewed merchandising juggernaut. So instead of this being the second to last film in a 9 film arc. It feels like the first film of a spin off series.
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2017, 08:51:04 am »
This is my biggest issue with the film. Basically it feels like there is no real continuity from 7 to 8. A story for 7-9 should have been established before a word was even written for 7. From what I am gathering through various articles that there was no plans after 7 and Rian Johnson had full creative control to go in whatever direction.

Yep, that's really poor form, and it's unbelievable they could have done that with arguably the most important movie franchise in history.

For me #4 almost lost it for me. The Finn/Rose story line was just stupid and killed the otherwise enjoyable flow of the movie.

I rolled my eyes several times at the (many) #1 moment, but ultimately they didn't hurt the flow of the movie.
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2017, 10:17:19 am »
Having now seen the film I'm not sure that I like it - I'll have to watch it a few more times I think (which means waiting until it is out on DVD/Blu-ray).

I think that the main reason for the backlash amongst those fans more heavily invested in the Star Wars universe is a mixture of points #3 and #5.

Physics & space mechanics goofs - meh. They were there but mostly they didn't rise above minor irritation. The one exception being Leia's return to the ship after the bridge was blown up. She should have simply died in the blast, even she somehow survived that she would have been projected from the ship at several 10's of metres per second and, even if we buy that she could try to pull herself back using the Force she would have been 100's of metres away by the time she was able to try (having initially been knocked unconscious by the blast) - Leia was a weak Force user so I think that would have been beyond her. Maybe you can explain it by being close to death she somehow gained extra strength but that bit jarred.

That the new films break from the past is OK but 8 throws away even stuff that was introduced in 7. Snokes for instance - generates no interest in me and was dispatched with too much ease for a Sith (or Sith-like) master. Phasma had promise but has had such a tiny part. Finn is mostly irrelevant and, again, there is no empathy - I'm not clear what they are doing with the character but they could feed him to a Rathtar or Rancor for all I care. In fact all of the characterisations seem fairly shallow, even Rey/Kylo.

It will probably grow on me but I can see why a lot of people don't like it.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2017, 02:17:49 pm »
I wonder if the porgs were designed from "grumpy cat".



Also, do they eat cats in China? Imagine eating porgs = eating cats..
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 01:07:03 pm by Decoman »
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2017, 03:28:16 pm »
Finn could have been an interesting character, if they hadn't build up the antagonists to comical level supervillains with superweapons they could have done something with him. Reluctance to fight turns to cowardice when they blow up planets though.

And so they did with that recent Mad Max film. What a complete heap of crap that was - a three hour (or maybe it just felt that long) car chase scene with no movie and a central character who managed to pull off a single facial expression throughout the entire fatuous farce.

It's a Mad Max movie ... I think it's fair to judge sequels by the expectations set by its predecessors. In that respect it was okay.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 03:37:49 pm by Marco »
 

Offline georges80

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2017, 05:18:59 pm »
Saw it yesterday. Was ok and sufficiently entertaining. I'm not a star wars 'nut' so I take each episode as a mostly stand alone 'event' with a small thread of consistency in the general 'setting' - the 'in a galaxy far far away' :)

The law of physics doesn't enter into these kinds of films - it would be damn boring for the masses (and probably us too) if it was actually accurate to our established perception of reality. I watch something like star wars and assume they will follow a similarly consistent set of physical rules as Thor, the Hobbit, Alice in Wonderland etc., don't :)

If I need science, I'll pick up a physics and/or chemistry reference book, not visit a cinema to see it on the big screen  :-DD

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Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2017, 05:36:06 pm »
If I need science, I'll pick up a physics and/or chemistry reference book, not visit a cinema to see it on the big screen  :-DD

There are good kind of hard science fiction movies, like The Martian or Gravity with Sandra Bullock, and maybe Ghost in the Shell.
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Offline georges80

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2017, 05:47:37 pm »
The martian - I found it boring and ridiculous - fortunately it helped me go to sleep when I watched it on a transpacific plane flight (business trip so didn't even have to feel that I wasted a flight ticket on it).

Anyhow, comparing movies and how 'good/bad' they are is so subjective that it is essentially pointless.

There's people that think pacific rim was a great movie... (pos in my opinion).

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Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2017, 06:31:21 pm »
Presumably, it would be this sense of 'adventure' that is really the appeal of the original star wars movies, and not so much being an action movie. And in order for a viewer to care about the story, the plot (things you can account for in a story) better be good otherwise the story would be literally pointless.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 11:58:31 am by Decoman »
 

Offline Pack34

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2017, 07:54:44 pm »
I actually quite liked it.

I thought the space battles in this one were a tad more realistic. Poe was able to spin his xwing at the beginning and it was nice to see. With the bombs dropping I had assumed that the dreadnaught had gravity wells to prevent nearby ships from going to light speed. Also they could have been pushed out maglev style.

I do agree that the humor was a little bit overdone but it is star wars after all. Typically the movies are meant to also be enjoyed by kids. Things like the porgs play into that.

I really didn't like how the handled the "Carrie Poppins" scene. It looked really absurd.

I was really hoping that they would have done a Kylo / Rey switch. Where Rey falls to the dark side and Kylo's guilt over his father brings him back. That would have been an incredibly original twist that we haven't seen before.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2017, 03:18:09 pm »
I have mixed feelings about this one. From the perspective of it being an action packed popcorn munching movie with beautiful effects and graphics, this one does pretty well. From a story telling and acting perspective there are a few glaring omissions and mistakes. Maybe we're just spoiled with the edge of your seat story telling of series like Game of Thrones, but I don't think it's a pass overall, even though there are some elements that did pan out quite well. I know people will probably resent speaking ill of the dead, but pretty much all the scenes with Fisher felt unnatural and clunky, slowing the pace of the movie way down. They were just uncomfortable to watch. Hamilton was however a treat, and it's unfortunate he will probably not be returning.

It's not about the physics being out of whack either. It's Star Wars, so they can get away with pretty much everything. I didn't care that ships were within in visual range and couldn't hit each other. I did care that a lot of plot twists and devices felt manufactured and unnatural. Crystal creatures fleeing inside a dark, confined space with larger humanoid creatures they're not familiar with, ending up being the saving grace? Really? Being inaccurate for the sake of immersion is fine in a space opera. Being inaccurate in an attempt to fill horrible plot holes is just a shame. I have trouble understanding how a company with effectively bottomless pockets would end up with this story. They should be able to afford the best writers there are and then some. The endless back and forth with the fleeing group being nearly destroyed and then saved again, only to rinse and repeat a few times didn't work well. The story should have ended with the planetary escape. If they weren't safe in space and weren't safe in a heavily fortified base, they're not going to be safe escaping with the Falcon again. The big final also felt a lot less climactic than the escape in space, with the former feeling tacked on. Regardless of the storyline, it felt like a second and unnecessary ending. What I did like were the main characters being a lot less black and white with human doubts and mistakes, doing the Marvell routine a bit, but making these villains and heroes a lot more believable.

The effort to include all sorts of different elements and story lines was noted and mostly appreciated. I understand that Disney has to include as many things as they can to appeal to the broadest audience they can and don't mind some of it falls flat on its face. Obviously, the weapons trading planet didn't really work all that well, but was welcome as a social commentary. The Minions style creatures on the island were obviously designed to sell stuffed animals, but not as annoying as Jar Jar. The comedy was toned down a bit compared to The Force Awakens, which is very welcome. I'm not sure the ramming of the enemy fleet at light speed was inspired by Star Trek, but as a science fiction fan I appreciated that reference regardless.

All in all I don't regret going to see this movie in the cinema. As a fan of Star Wars I so very much wanted to like this movie a lot, but if I'm honest to myself, it does leave me wishing. I'd say a solid 8/10 or 9/10 for graphics, effects and production value, and 3/10 or 4/10 for the story and some regrettable acting.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2017, 04:31:46 pm »
Streaming? That's just a scapegoat. My movie going had taken a sharp downturn long before I'd ever streamed a movie. What did it for me is a combination of so many garbage movies coming out and having a big TV and decent sound at home. Overall watching a movie on my sofa is more comfortable and all around a more pleasant experience, a fair trade for the smaller screen, not even considering the fact that I don't have to buy tickets or pay a fortune for a bucket of popcorn.
I think the resurgence of cinema has changed this considerably. Compared to a few years back, cinema's are hard at work making the whole thing an enjoyable experience. Good and well maintained venues, new technology and great sound. The stuffy rooms with sticky floors and god knows what substances on the seats seem to be a thing of the past. For just $15-25 you can have a fun night out, with some beers before or after and some snacks included. Though a lot of theaters don't seem to make a big deal out of bringing snacks any more either.

I really like that some the theatres allow you to choose whether you want to see the movie in 3D, in 3D with a special sound system or in just plain old 2D. All the bells and whistles cost a little extra, or you can go the cheap and cheerful route and still have a fun night out.
 

Offline WZOLL

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2017, 04:12:45 am »
I noticed another problem with the physics in the movie. When the doors of the bombers are opened, wouldn't everyone be sucked into space? How far above the planet is there a working atmosphere and breathable air?
 

Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2017, 05:08:45 am »
I think the resurgence of cinema has changed this considerably. Compared to a few years back, cinema's are hard at work making the whole thing an enjoyable experience. Good and well maintained venues, new technology and great sound. The stuffy rooms with sticky floors and god knows what substances on the seats seem to be a thing of the past. For just $15-25 you can have a fun night out, with some beers before or after and some snacks included. Though a lot of theaters don't seem to make a big deal out of bringing snacks any more either.

I really like that some the theatres allow you to choose whether you want to see the movie in 3D, in 3D with a special sound system or in just plain old 2D. All the bells and whistles cost a little extra, or you can go the cheap and cheerful route and still have a fun night out.

Maybe it varies by region but I haven't noticed much difference in the overall experience between now and back when I was a kid. 3D was an irritating gimmick that gave me a splitting headache and added nothing to the experience, it was a distraction if anything. The sound is good but it was good 25 years ago too. What has changed is you can get a 60" TV and a halfway decent surround sound system for peanuts these days, plop on the sofa and eat and drink whatever you like. The best part is you don't have to go out, no traffic, no parking hassles, no need to worry about getting home if you decided to have a few drinks.
 

Offline GK

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2017, 05:34:01 am »
The best part is you don't have to go out,


I thought that was half the novelty. I still recall when a visit to the cinema meant a train ride into the city and half a day out. Maybe it's a thing of the past, but most people once upon a time could go ninety minutes or so without food and you just didn't enter the cinema starving because you knew that the "food" available was overpriced and crap.

Now the corner video store is dead too. This Christmas when I suggested that we all go for an evenings walk to the beach instead I received a response as though I was some kind of freak. Instead it turned into a Netflix night with the nieces locking themselves away and streaming their own choices onto their ipads. How frigging dull and boring.


 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 05:37:28 am by GK »
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2017, 10:43:15 am »
Maybe it varies by region but I haven't noticed much difference in the overall experience between now and back when I was a kid. 3D was an irritating gimmick that gave me a splitting headache and added nothing to the experience, it was a distraction if anything. The sound is good but it was good 25 years ago too. What has changed is you can get a 60" TV and a halfway decent surround sound system for peanuts these days, plop on the sofa and eat and drink whatever you like. The best part is you don't have to go out, no traffic, no parking hassles, no need to worry about getting home if you decided to have a few drinks.
I think you're just after watching a movie. A lot of people are looking for a bit more of an experience and I think modern theaters are doing an excellent job of providing that. It's a bit like making dinner at home and saying it's the same as going to a restaurant.

3D has changed from being a gimmick into another tool om the toolbox, and has because a lot less in your face because of it. Directors don't have to show off the newfangled 3D stuff any more and have also become more adept at applying it without causing people discomfort. I don't think it's a huge revolution, but it's a fun addition if it floats your boat.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2017, 01:08:28 pm »
I wonder, am I the only one that seem to associate the design of the bomber spaceship in The Last Jedi with the Apollo module? This got in my head the very moment I saw the bomber. If this was intentional, they should really cut that out. Such wouldn't be good design imo, but more like a simple joke.




Btw, and unrelated, here's something else I noticed only today when watching 'Valerian and the city of a thousand planets':
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 09:29:19 pm by Decoman »
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2017, 01:16:31 pm »
Knowing how those movie models are often made, it wouldn't surprise me if that part was from an off the shelf plastic model of the Apollo spacecraft.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2017, 01:22:56 pm »
I remember watching the first movie in the series ( yes I am old) and remember it was in a then new cinema complex, which had just installed the full Dolby Surround system, complete with the full rated 1kW per speaker subwoofers, a full 6m tall IIRC, and with around 10 of them spaced along the walls of the cinema. Saw Crocodile Dundee there as well, from around row 5, seeing every single pore and freckle on the stars, and also seeing the grain on the film as well clearly.

One thing is that full Dolby power levels were only done for the first week, as the people from the surrounding 4 blocks of flats put in a petition to turn down the volume, as the sound level from the effects channel was rattling pictures and ornaments off the walls of the flats, plus they were unable to sleep till midnight. In the cinema this sound level was amazing, you felt the seats and floor vibrate with the sound track.

With the new series I think I will wait for the DVD version, and watch at home, where I can sit and enjoy it without the sticky floor, noisy patrons and phones ringing incessantly. Plus the DVD will be cheaper than going to the cinema in any case.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2017, 01:28:57 pm »
It seems to pay to go to a movie like this one not too long after release. After the start of the movie I don't think I saw one phone, other than my own when I checked the time halfway through. No noisy patrons or sticky floors either.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2017, 06:47:20 pm »
I thought that was half the novelty. I still recall when a visit to the cinema meant a train ride into the city and half a day out. Maybe it's a thing of the past, but most people once upon a time could go ninety minutes or so without food and you just didn't enter the cinema starving because you knew that the "food" available was overpriced and crap.

Now the corner video store is dead too. This Christmas when I suggested that we all go for an evenings walk to the beach instead I received a response as though I was some kind of freak. Instead it turned into a Netflix night with the nieces locking themselves away and streaming their own choices onto their ipads. How frigging dull and boring.

If I go out, I want to go out and do something interactive. Go to a technical museum, go out for a hike in the national park, go visit something interesting. Going out somewhere to go sit in a dark room with a bunch of strangers to watch a movie is not an improvement over staying in and sitting on my comfy sofa in my pajamas to watch the same movie at home. Crowds stress me out, the traffic around here has gotten horrendous and makes going anywhere a chore. Growing up this was a nice quiet rural area and then the invasion waves started in the 80s and never slowed down. It can take an hour to get somewhere that used to take 15 minutes and then when you get there there's nowhere to park.

Also it's worth mentioning that at the moment it's the middle of winter here, there's snow and ice on the ground outside and everything is cold, wet and gloomy. Staying indoors at home where it's warm, dry and clean is appealing.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2017, 07:29:58 pm »
I held off on this thread until I had actually seen the movie.  I am forced to agree with most of the negative comments.  It was OK entertainment, but nothing special.

Star Wars physics pervades this.  Since physics doesn't have to be consistent, why does anything else?

Why a gratuitous anti-carnivore message with the Porgs?  Who vary between being less sentient and civilized than a cat and almost simian level intelligences.

Why is there a need to keep the escape plan (transports to a forgotten base) hidden from the crew?

Why is Derne's character just doing her job when she stays aboard the cruiser to pilot it to its destruction after the transports leave, but suddenly brave beyond brave when she kamikazis the main ship?

Why, since Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi can return from death to fight and destroy things don't all of the Jedi of the past return to help?

Why were the writers so tired of this movie that they couldn't come up with a better name than Crystal Critters for the heroes of the escape?


Also noticed that the pews of the weapons were modified slightly to better match the popular pew-pew-pew renderings.

 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2017, 07:52:29 pm »
Star Wars physics pervades this.  Since physics doesn't have to be consistent, why does anything else?

FWIW, this is a very normal portrayal of space.  It's physically silly, but the average viewer won't ever have anything to do with space, so it's okay to lie to them.  (At best a tenuous rationalization, sure, but that's what you get.)

The explanation given by the creators of Eve Online: "It's submarines in space."  (Also the blast wave from explosions, stuff like that.)

The same goes for Star Trek (though much of their travel is above light speed, where one might suppose a tremendous power consumption is required), Homeworld, Star Wars and most others.

Let alone relativity, something that's been handled more-or-less correctly by very few games; just one that I know of.

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Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #66 on: December 27, 2017, 08:08:43 pm »
I sometimes find it surprising when listening to movie reviews on youtube, whenever a reviewer does not seem to understand the different between 'sci-fi' and 'fantasy', and so a movie that relies mostly on 'fantasy' is sometimes deemed "bad sci-fi" by a reviewer. :D

As for all the Star Wars movies, I would think that all of them are basically fantasy movies, wrapped in some futuristic and space themed setting. Not very sci-fi about the Star Wars universe. I am ofc, not at all complaining about that. I generally like the old Star Wars universe.

Speaking of movies, I find it odd how adding a little bit of romance and a little drama have people turn sour, when for example saying that the sci-fi movie "Passengers" was bad. :|
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 08:11:28 pm by Decoman »
 

Offline IRFP460

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #67 on: December 27, 2017, 08:39:16 pm »
Just came back from the theaters.

I really liked the movie, but there were some scenes which left me confused.
Is no one going to talk about Luke "milking" that thing on the beach?
Why was that scene in there? What did it add to the story, to reys lessions, to anything?
Same goes for those caretaker-nuns.

Also the mirror-scene left me very unsatisfied. Suddenly the movie goes from showing what's happening to narration?
And who is Rey narrating to?
The scene itself was filmed very nicely and built suspense, but then just... ends.

And there were too many "comic-relief", hindering the suspense.

But that's just my opinion  :)
Trying to learn english, if I make any mistakes feel free to correct me!
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2017, 06:40:39 am »
Looking at twitter today. Someone sarcastically asking if when with the other Star Wars movies droids were used for hacking, but now with 'The Last Jedi' a human is required?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2017, 07:37:48 am »
If I go out, I want to go out and do something interactive. Go to a technical museum, go out for a hike in the national park, go visit something interesting. Going out somewhere to go sit in a dark room with a bunch of strangers to watch a movie is not an improvement over staying in and sitting on my comfy sofa in my pajamas to watch the same movie at home. Crowds stress me out, the traffic around here has gotten horrendous and makes going anywhere a chore. Growing up this was a nice quiet rural area and then the invasion waves started in the 80s and never slowed down. It can take an hour to get somewhere that used to take 15 minutes and then when you get there there's nowhere to park.

Also it's worth mentioning that at the moment it's the middle of winter here, there's snow and ice on the ground outside and everything is cold, wet and gloomy. Staying indoors at home where it's warm, dry and clean is appealing.
I think the "strangers" part of your comment is the problem. Going out for drinks alone is somewhat sad. Going out for drinks with friends can be loads of fun. I feel the same applies to cinemas.

If you insist on seing it as just a way of watching a movie, then sure, but I don't think that's quite the point of it all.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2017, 07:44:47 am »
Going out for drinks with friends is one thing, going out with a group of friends to sit in a dark room full of strangers watching a movie is something else. A movie is not really a social experience, especially not in  a theater. You can't talk and laugh with your friends without pissing off the other patrons, you just sit there and watch the movie.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2017, 07:54:17 am »
Just came back from the theaters.

I really liked the movie, but there were some scenes which left me confused.
Is no one going to talk about Luke "milking" that thing on the beach?
Why was that scene in there? What did it add to the story, to reys lessions, to anything?
Same goes for those caretaker-nuns.

Also the mirror-scene left me very unsatisfied. Suddenly the movie goes from showing what's happening to narration?
And who is Rey narrating to?
The scene itself was filmed very nicely and built suspense, but then just... ends.

And there were too many "comic-relief", hindering the suspense.

But that's just my opinion  :)
I understand the milking of the creates to be in the spirit of the old Star Wars, with lots of strange and somewhat disgusting creatures. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to show the diverse universe, though it might tell a story about the little sacrifices you must make to live in isolation.

The caretakes are just comic relief. The pervious episode did that a bit too much, this one is much more bearable. As others have noted, it's a movie that's supposed to appeal to kids too. Just look at the Ewoks or Jar Jar, both hated by adult fans.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2017, 08:06:41 am »
Going out for drinks with friends is one thing, going out with a group of friends to sit in a dark room full of strangers watching a movie is something else. A movie is not really a social experience, especially not in  a theater. You can't talk and laugh with your friends without pissing off the other patrons, you just sit there and watch the movie.
It doesn't seem we have the same frame of reference. If you don't agree that's obviously fine, but again I think going to the cinema is more than just watching a movie on a big screen for a lot of people. You meet your friends, maybe have diner or a few drinks and go see the movie. You get to see what's hopefully a nice and entertaining movie on a subject you all apreciate and afterwards you get to share what you liked or disliked over some drinks.

It's like going to a sports game, a racing event or a play. In all cases, watching from home is easier, cheaper, more comfortable and you see more because cameras show you every angle. Yet people flock to these things and spend massive amounts of money on it. It's about an experience, and most often a social gathering, rather than just functionally seeing a movie. Or you could liken it to going to a restaurant. You can get food much cheaper and with less hassle if you make it yourself at home, but that's rarely the point of going out for dinner.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2017, 11:38:14 pm »
As someone that haven't but also won't see this movie, I have spend the last week trawling though review videos for The Last Jedi, and I thought this one was particularly interesting. If this guy is right in thinking that the director actively subverted the viewer expectations in a calculated way, then this latest Star Wars movie would be sort of an anti-Star Wars movie, as if being mere fluff. You would think that the Star Wars universe with its existing movies would be enough for making a range of compelling movies, but perhaps the director thought otherwise I wonder. In all seriousness, worst case I think, if The Last Jedi was meant to be experimental or casual movie making even.

(Video is ca 27 min long)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 11:40:26 pm by Decoman »
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2017, 02:13:11 am »
Chewbacca in his trailer during the shoot grumbling to himself   :palm:   
'Keep Calm and don't say anything in English, you need this paycheck to cover some debts in Vegas'


"...if I complain or suggest anything, I'll get wacked out of the franchise like the other three original cast members"
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2017, 07:55:38 am »
I noticed another problem with the physics in the movie. When the doors of the bombers are opened, wouldn't everyone be sucked into space? How far above the planet is there a working atmosphere and breathable air?
The Imperial Cruisers have huge docks with basically a window into space. Remember Rey just flying inside with her Space Coffin, alongside some Tie Fighters? I gather these craft use the same technology.
 

Online hendorog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2017, 09:12:15 am »
I went to this movie yesterday with a group of kids and adults.

The story to be pretty weak and full of gaps. I don't care about the physics, it is the storyline. There were just too many WTF moments.
I won't bother going to the next one, they have ruined it by putting crap writers on the job.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2017, 04:50:58 pm »
I went to this movie yesterday with a group of kids and adults.

The story to be pretty weak and full of gaps. I don't care about the physics, it is the storyline. There were just too many WTF moments.
I won't bother going to the next one, they have ruined it by putting crap writers on the job.

Suspect the "ruining" is intentional, to make the final (?) in the series feel more dramatic, and to open up more options, away from the tired old hero-story archetype.

Tim
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Online hendorog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2017, 06:11:52 pm »
I went to this movie yesterday with a group of kids and adults.

The story to be pretty weak and full of gaps. I don't care about the physics, it is the storyline. There were just too many WTF moments.
I won't bother going to the next one, they have ruined it by putting crap writers on the job.

Suspect the "ruining" is intentional, to make the final (?) in the series feel more dramatic, and to open up more options, away from the tired old hero-story archetype.

Tim

Damn you, now I need to go to the next one to find out!
 
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2017, 09:10:34 pm »
Damn you, now I need to go to the next one to find out!

;D ;D

Or... don't make up your mind now, rather, wait for reviews -- accept mild spoilers -- and make up your mind then. :)

(I'm sorry, this much rational thought probably doesn't belong in a thread like this... :P )

Tim
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2017, 10:50:33 pm »
Of course the whole Star Wars series is an embodiment of the song "Along came John" a parody of the old Saturday serials which always ended with a cliff hanger.

That doesn't mean they couldn't tighten up the stories a bit.  They knew the early gross would be high, and total gross receipts will easily top a half a billion dollars.  With that kind of budget there should be some decent writers available.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2017, 01:54:01 am »
Of course the whole Star Wars series is an embodiment of the song "Along came John" a parody of the old Saturday serials which always ended with a cliff hanger.

That doesn't mean they couldn't tighten up the stories a bit.  They knew the early gross would be high, and total gross receipts will easily top a half a billion dollars.  With that kind of budget there should be some decent writers available.
Exactly. It's Disney. They have pockets deep enough to have every remotely decent writer in the world on staff. I really don't understand how this came to be the end result, though I fear it might have to do with the classic Hollywood dynamic of people messing with your project. Anyone who is anyone will have his say and the results suffers because of it. It's like design by committee, except that there's a bit of a power struggle mixed in. When everyone is pulling at the wheel, you won't be sure where things end up.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2017, 07:15:10 am »
It doesn't seem we have the same frame of reference. If you don't agree that's obviously fine, but again I think going to the cinema is more than just watching a movie on a big screen for a lot of people. You meet your friends, maybe have diner or a few drinks and go see the movie. You get to see what's hopefully a nice and entertaining movie on a subject you all apreciate and afterwards you get to share what you liked or disliked over some drinks.

It's like going to a sports game, a racing event or a play. In all cases, watching from home is easier, cheaper, more comfortable and you see more because cameras show you every angle. Yet people flock to these things and spend massive amounts of money on it. It's about an experience, and most often a social gathering, rather than just functionally seeing a movie. Or you could liken it to going to a restaurant. You can get food much cheaper and with less hassle if you make it yourself at home, but that's rarely the point of going out for dinner.


You couldn't pay me to go out to a sporting event, watching sports bores me to begin with and being in large crowds of people stresses me out. I'm just a natural introvert, being around large groups of people is stressful and draining. I enjoy small gatherings of select groups of people far more. I'll take peace and quiet any day over a noisy crowd.
 
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #83 on: December 30, 2017, 07:53:48 am »
Is it bad that I liked the cute animals? The little puffin things, the horse things with big ears, and those adorable glass foxes...

The scene that cringed me the most though is when those little creatures kept crying over Chewbaca trying to eat one of them that was already cooked! I was like "it's already dead, shut up and don't watch you stupid things!" And it was awkwardly too long too. If they were going to make the joke, the last bit of that scene would have sufficed.

As for the bomber physics, of course star destroyers have artificial gravity, people walk in them. Perhaps that gravitational feild is also what stopped the fleeing ships from drifting? (They actually seemed to be pulled back) And maybe they didn't use lightspeed weapons before because they thought something more horrid would happen like a black hole if something at lightspeed collided with something. People could have assumed things in that universe too...
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #84 on: December 30, 2017, 01:49:48 pm »
As for the bomber physics, of course star destroyers have artificial gravity, people walk in them. Perhaps that gravitational feild is also what stopped the fleeing ships from drifting? (They actually seemed to be pulled back) And maybe they didn't use lightspeed weapons before because they thought something more horrid would happen like a black hole if something at lightspeed collided with something. People could have assumed things in that universe too...

I would suppose that the bomber's internal gravity provided the push.

One mustn't think too deeply about how rational a given system is -- remember it's fantasy, not scifi.

Tim
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #85 on: December 30, 2017, 04:58:37 pm »
I don't quite get why people are discussing the bombs falling bit so much. There's a number of explanations that are entirely consistent with the universe portrayed that would work well, with or without magic.

What bothered me more about that scene is that the bombers are so slow and fly in a tight formation. I get that this refers to WWII bombing raids, but even back then the aircraft didn't fly so close that they'd regularly hit each other like dominoes. If you really want to go that way, you might want to do more with gunning turrets and waves of enemies coming in and being fought off, while your friends are being picked off.
 

Offline Syntax_Error

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #86 on: December 30, 2017, 09:35:17 pm »
I don't quite get why people are discussing the bombs falling bit so much. There's a number of explanations that are entirely consistent with the universe portrayed that would work well, with or without magic.

What bothered me more about that scene is that the bombers are so slow and fly in a tight formation. I get that this refers to WWII bombing raids, but even back then the aircraft didn't fly so close that they'd regularly hit each other like dominoes. If you really want to go that way, you might want to do more with gunning turrets and waves of enemies coming in and being fought off, while your friends are being picked off.

No doubt. I have never heard anyone complain about gravity in previous Star Wars movies (of Earthly strength and always pointing toward local down, regardless of orientation) inside smaller space ships such as the Falcon, so why is it so hard to accept bombs accelerating toward another ship? It's not reality.

This isn't to say everything gets a pass, but it is all rather subjective. I enjoyed certain individual scenes in the movie, but as a whole, the movie was awful and if it weren't for my kids' obvious enjoyment, it would have been a bad experience.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 09:37:47 pm by Syntax_Error »
It's perfectly acceptable to not know something in the short term. To continue to not know over the long term is just laziness.
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #87 on: December 30, 2017, 11:14:46 pm »
And when everyone is shooting at everyone else, why even with such advanced technology do they miss their target so often???
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #88 on: December 30, 2017, 11:45:18 pm »
And when everyone is shooting at everyone else, why even with such advanced technology do they miss their target so often???
There's one simple and obvious answer to that: the movie wouldn't be any fun if everyone died right away. It'd be somewhat Shakespearian, but not a lot of fun.
 

Offline Echo88

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #89 on: December 31, 2017, 12:33:01 am »
This thread reminds me so much of the simpsons-equivalent:   ;D
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #90 on: December 31, 2017, 12:52:40 am »
This thread reminds me so much of the simpsons-equivalent:   ;D
This thread reminds me nothing of that episode. I hate how anyone who has doubts about the choices made is labelled a die hard fan who can't just enjoy a flick. Even if you're fully unfamiliar with Star Wars, there are plenty of issues with the story. You can't explain those away by magic either, as a universe without some boundaries is a boring universe without tension. Superman flies in and saves everyone, boring. You need to add some kryptonite to create tension.

Had this not been a Star Wars branded movie I don't think I would have liked it that much more, to be honest. A bad story is a bad story.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #91 on: December 31, 2017, 06:18:12 am »
This thread reminds me nothing of that episode. I hate how anyone who has doubts about the choices made is labelled a die hard fan who can't just enjoy a flick. Even if you're fully unfamiliar with Star Wars, there are plenty of issues with the story. You can't explain those away by magic either, as a universe without some boundaries is a boring universe without tension. Superman flies in and saves everyone, boring. You need to add some kryptonite to create tension.

I didn't find the battles exciting at all because it was obvious no one important was going to die*.

*The part with Leia on the bridge would've been dramatic, for a number of reasons relevant to the movie as-written as well as real practical reasons (RIP :( ).  But nooo, they had to have her pull a Superman there.

Tim
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Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #92 on: December 31, 2017, 11:15:53 am »
I want to here suggest to Disney, for the next movie, a more appropriate title that I suspect would nicely allude to the excess silliness in the new movies:

"Star Wars: Sith Happens"

:)
 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #93 on: January 01, 2018, 12:14:45 am »
I want to here suggest to Disney, for the next movie, a more appropriate title that I suspect would nicely allude to the excess silliness in the new movies:

"Star Wars: Sith Happens!"

:)

Another winner for T-shirt printers and tattoo parlors   ;D
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 12:17:13 am by Electro Detective »
 

Online BrianHG

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #94 on: January 01, 2018, 12:47:57 am »
An improvement:
__________
BrianHG.
 
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Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #95 on: January 02, 2018, 07:39:04 am »
Someone made this. :) Compositing 'The Room' with 'The Last Jedi'.

There's this funny detail around half the way into the video, which is only visible when viewing the video in higher res. :)

« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 07:41:52 am by Decoman »
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #96 on: January 11, 2018, 04:03:24 pm »
I didn't plan to write more here in this thread, but I found this interesting video that points out the importance of having set things up, and then having things pay off.

What I find interesting with this general idea of having a setup in a movie, and a payoff, is that which I think of as the importance of 'introduction' in movies in general. And I realize now that my idea of "the power of introduction" seems similar to this idea of a setup and a pay-off.



I would argue that my notion of "the importance of introduction" in movies, pertains to both 'pacing' and a 'deeper meaning' in movies, by which it would be critical of a director to have/get a good idea of exactly what is being, or what has been, introduced in a movie, regardless of it being real (a character, or maybe a place) or imaginary (like an abstract idea). For me, what is interesting with something being introduced, is not so much there being an expectation of things you might think you will be seeing, but that having a clear idea of things being introduced is important to contain a story as perceived by a viewer (as opposed to a director's ideas about there being a particular plot). I suppose I have this general idea of how various ideas in a movie are made to be interconnected by being very careful in precisely how you introduce various things in a movie.

Presumably, a proper introduction might present an actor in a meaningful way, such that you aren't suddenly seeing a famous and recognizable actor on screen playing himself, but that you buy into this world portrayed in the movie, in which any famous actor takes the second seat after the context of the situation.

Also, by being very careful in how you introduce things, I think you will achieve a contrasting effect to previously shown locations, and so a change of scenery has the powerful effect of simply making you forget the previous scene entirely, while also maintaining a momentum in the plot/story being shown.

And, so, presumably, as important it would be to start showing new things, it is also important to stop showing older things, but in a graceful way, to better avoid the viewer getting annoyed about perceived plot holes, but to keep the story going.

I am rehashing some older ideas of mine here, so I fear I am forgetting something. Hm. I guess when I was thinking about what I call "the power of introduction" in movies, I was probably mainly concerned about the notion of there being 'tension', or, 'suspense' in movies. And, that a repeated form of introduction would deflate tension, while also failing to achieve a sense of suspense, if only getting to repeat something that had already been shown earlier in the movie.
 

Offline MarkS

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2018, 05:21:38 am »
I didn't like it and I don't know why. It's more or less instinctual, as though something in the back of my mind is objecting, but I have no conscious understanding as to why. It was good, but... not?

Don't get me wrong, the abominations (Episodes 1-3) *spits on ground* rank at the bottom, but this one is just slightly above them.
 

Online knapik

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2018, 05:54:25 am »
Don't get me wrong, the abominations (Episodes 1-3) *spits on ground* rank at the bottom, but this one is just slightly above them.

Sure, episode 1 was ruined by Jar Jar, but episodes 2 & 3 were fine.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #99 on: January 12, 2018, 07:15:13 am »
I can honestly say I enjoyed Episode 1 when it was released. Sure I was a bit younger and problably less skeptical. There's obviously a couple of flaws that didn't work out well. Regardless, there were some memorable additions to the universe and I enjoyed the experience overall.
 

Offline dryjoints

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2018, 03:49:22 am »
Here's how I review films, music, food, etc - I try them myself. "Reviews" are extremely personal and very subjective (clearly), so the way to review a film is to watch it. I've watched films that had 20% ratings on "Rotten Tomatoes", and which I'd rate at 100%. If I don't like a film, and someone asks me what I think of it, I say "go and see it, see for yourself". If someone asks me for "spoilers" or a plot outline, I stonewall them completely; I don't ruin films for people, not AT ALL.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #101 on: January 16, 2018, 08:47:22 pm »
I generally find that most movies which are rated very highly by critics are ones I don't really like. There are exceptions but that happens more often than not.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #102 on: January 20, 2018, 12:08:04 pm »
I think this will be my final post here on this movie. Though I am curious though if anyone who saw the movie finds this commentary in the video linked below fair or not, as I haven't seen the movie (and I probably never will).

As for movie critique in general, I think it is pertinent to the commentary on the new Star Wars movies to here add, that I think that any subversion of a genre as such is probably a very unfortunate thing. Without having seen the movie, I still ended up getting the impression that the fantasy genre here can be said to have been trivialized with this movie, as if 'fantasy' was either taken for granted, or used as a mere backdrop for the plot and events unfolding.

An issue I see here, with this idea of thinking of the 'fantasy genre' having been subverted with The Last Jed, with jokes, unappreciated twists and plot holes, is that I think that it is especially important for a fantasy movie (probably more than sci-fi movies) that the foundations of fantasy in the fantasy-genre is treated seriously, or things get bizarre and tending more towards the surreal. The 'surreal' movie genre (or tv-series like with Twin Peaks) would be a thing to be found enjoyable by itself, but then being favorable as a specific type of genre, not as some kind of effect or aesthetic as such. And so, I am inclined to think that whenever a resulting effect of watching a movie is generally thought to be odd or nonsensical, then I think that the strength of having a foundation based on fantasy (something to identify with, oddly enough, and to the contrary of conventional wisdom) is made void, turning things into a visual spectacle much like the Transformers movies.

I suspect that the director Rian Johnson maybe thinks of 'science fiction' and 'fantasy' as being similar, as being 'fictitious' (but what isn't fictitious in our world relying on people with subjective thoughts and expressions, most things are, even news unless showing unedited video footage or audio recording), when sci-fi and fantasy ought to be thought of as being something distinctively different (real vs. patently unreal). As I think I've pointed out earlier, people in general probably think of all the Star Wars movies as being science fiction movies because of the futuristic setting (ofc George Lucas instructed the viewer in the title crawl for A New Hope: "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"), but given the artistic license that obviously goes into creating an unreal world, like the Star Wars universe, it is not a good idea to blur the distinction between real and unreal, when one is expecting something to exist in an unreal world, thus ridiculous humor, contemporary themes and references, and plot holes, would as I see it undermine the fantasy genre as such; because if one is to take the fantasy genre seriously, I think that the notion of "subverting people's expectations" as if bringing in something 'new' to a franchise, goes against the familiar setting in which one manages to suspend ones disbelief. So, as a final point here, the possibility of being able to 'suspend ones disbelief' when watching movies would imo not only be a thing for science-fiction movies, but is very much important for fantasy movies as well (and probably other genres as well). I can think of one type of movies/tv-shows in which a viewer will likely uncritically accept some trite content, and that would be movies made only for kids.

A word of warning: having listened to this commentary below, it made me want to shun The Last Jedi even more. I personally disliked the trailer, but then there is apparently a lot of bizarre things in the movie itself. I personally found the clip of BB-8 bashing his head into the motherboard to be very silly.
 
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Offline GK

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #103 on: January 20, 2018, 01:55:06 pm »
This looks way better than any Star Wars. I'd trade in my flying car for a Galaxina any day. Phhooaaaahhh!


« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 11:13:20 pm by GK »
Bzzzzt. No longer care, over this forum shit.........ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Offline theleakydiode

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #104 on: February 15, 2018, 03:46:08 am »
Did anyone else never really care for the star wars hype? For me it was just a bit of light entertainment for a few hours, the latest one is no different.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #105 on: May 19, 2018, 06:59:56 am »
The plot thickens so to speak. :D

Someone somewhere apparently found an old video of Rian Johnson talking about the type of film he would want to make. Presumably, this is legit.

"It is much more exciting to me, when you get, you know, am, a group of people who are like coming at you like, and, and,  really really excited about it, and then there are other people who walk out, just, I mean, literally saying it was the worst movie I've ever seen. Having those two extremes, to me is, you know, is the mark of a type of movie that I want to make, so (...)"

:D

Please, forgive or ignore the somewhat pretentious/hyperbolic framing of all of this. :) I suppose there is always some risk of having the quote being taken out of context, but heh it rally does sound very personal the way he talks about this, which I think is interesting.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 07:05:32 am by Decoman »
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #106 on: May 21, 2018, 12:16:04 am »
I finally got around to seeing "The Last Jedi" on a flight a couple of weeks ago.

I saw a movie simply titled "Star Wars," on its second day in the theaters. I was 11. My older cousin saw it the first day and convinced my parents to let her take my brother (year younger than me) to see it the next day. Just that SuperDuper Star Cruiser thing in the very first scene -- WOW. It was fun as hell. I went to see it again a few weeks later, and by that time, it had already be renamed to "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope."

It would be many, many years later that I finally got to see "Star Wars" in the original Japanese. That would be Kurosawa's "Hidden Fortress." George Lucas was smart enough to steal from the masters. (The SuperDuper Star Cruiser opening shot? Straight outta Kurosawa.)

"The Empire Strikes Back" remains the best of the franchise.

The three prequels could've been good, if only Lucas was interested in exploring the story he was telling, rather than selling Moichandising. Anakin Skywalker's descent into madness would have been fascinating in the hands of a better filmmaker. There is also the parallel storyline, the devolution of a democracy into a fascist dictatorship, also a good base for a story. But to combine them -- because they're really the same story, one on the micro level, the other on the macro -- and if you've got the right director and screenwriter that could be an astonishing tale, especially if you have three movies in which to tell it. But, know, pod racing and Jar Jar Binks and we've licensed this shit to EVERYONE so fuck it.

"The Force Awakens" nods to the past, introduces the future, same as it ever was. Daisy Ridley is a spitting image of Natalie Portman. Poe is Han Solo. Shit gets blown up, I don't remember. Oh, yeah, there's a goofy robot, because Moichandising. The ending when Ray is on the island and we see Luke? Best part of the whole thing. They kill off Han Solo and nobody even says a little Kaddish, they all just keep on doing what they're doing. Especially Leia. One would think that J. J. Abrams could do better.

"The Last Jedi." More winking nods to the past. As pointed out way earlier, we've seen this movie before. But: Luke Skywalker is the center of this universe, and he (and Mark Hamill) lives up to the billing. He gets it. He understands why the Palpatine Empire was able to gain traction as it did. He understands that the Jedi were in part responsible for their own downfall. (Hubris. That's the word we all need to remember.) He understands the Force and how the Jedi (and the Sith on the other side of this Manichean coin) do not have a monopoly on it, or even the right to claim that the should have such. Yoda, too, knew this; the younger Luke wouldn't listen (more hubris) and runs off half-cocked and almost loses it all. The older Luke we see in "TLJ" understands completely; he learned the lessons in the hardest way.

"TLJ" sets up Episode 9. Will Ray turn Ben/Ren to the Light? Yes, ditching the helmet as Snoke suggested was a wise move on Ren's part. It also requires us to see Kylo Ren as human, not as the ultimate embodiment of evil, Darth Vader.  So, #9. Have we seen that movie? Yes. Maybe. We don't know.

Regarding, "Where did the First Order come from, and how did it rise so quickly?" Yeah, that annoyed me when I saw "Force Awakens," but the answer is simple: The Dark Side Of The Force. You know the old sayings: "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" (another wide old Uncle Ben), and "Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely." Snoke was strong with the Force, and like Sauron he allowed himself to be completely corrupted by its power. And with that kind of evil power you can command legions to do your bidding. Orcs, stormtroopers, makes no difference; do as told or die. I suppose the story of Snoke would make for a good prequel, too, but he's not a character, he's a plot device.

BEST PART OF "THE LAST JEDI." In the casino scene (ripped off in equal parts from James Bond and "The Fifth Element", and wholly unimportant to the story), Finn and Rose are arrested for "violating parking law 27 B stroke 6." I was watching on the iPad Pro, and rewound and rewatched that scene three or four times, and finally turned on the captions, just to make sure I actually heard what I thought I heard. I'm sure Terry Gilliam got a huge laugh at that, especially because Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) is starring in Gilliam's soon-to-be-released "The Man Who Killed Don Quixote."
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #107 on: May 21, 2018, 01:33:33 am »

..."The Empire Strikes Back" remains the best of the franchise.


No competition!    :clap: 
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #108 on: May 21, 2018, 02:46:42 am »
In 1977-78 I paid to see the original Star Wars in theaters at least seventeen times. I had a chance to watch The Last Jedi for the first time a few weeks ago in my living room on TV. Somewhere past the halfway point I lost interest and wandered off to do other things.



 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #109 on: May 21, 2018, 05:48:36 am »
In 1977-78 I paid to see the original Star Wars in theaters at least seventeen times. I had a chance to watch The Last Jedi for the first time a few weeks ago in my living room on TV.

...Somewhere past the halfway point I lost interest and wandered off to do other things.

I can assure you whatever other things you did when you wandered off past halfway, were more entertaining, exciting and distracting  :clap:

and the activity would have scored more 'Likes' 'Subscribes' and 'Thank You' comments if filmed and uploaded on Youtube, to compete with $3.99 TLJ    ;D

i.e. you didn't miss much, watch the rest if you need an early night good sleep 


TBH I had to use  'The Force'  to get through The Last Jedi ordeal    :=\ 

I can't even remember what it was about, except thinking did they wack Harrison Ford out of the franchise for asking good money for the next epicsode, like because he's worth it?

Did they script Mark Hamills lines, or forgot and told him to just make it up as he goes?

Chewbacca is holding this show together, the other actors are giving it a fair go but have nothing to work with

What's next on the menu: "The Jedi Strikes Back" ?
The Jedi Strikes... for more money, better working conditions and a decent script   :palm:


I'm sticking with the original 3 DVD set, good to watch on a big TV every couple of years   :-+

 

« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 05:52:42 am by Electro Detective »
 


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