Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 10077 times)

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Offline Marco

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2017, 12:46:56 pm »
Sounds like too much on the fly scripting.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2017, 05:49:44 pm »
The purple haired commander was played by Laura Dern, someone who can act if she wants to. It was bugging me when I saw her because I was sure I had seen her before so when I got home I jumped on the IMDB.

I'd forgotten about the Finn and Rose thing which really was bad, but I did say that I'd concentrate my criticism on the bad science rather than the bad acting.

Oh, and I REALLY like the Mary Poppins comment  :) A far better description of her flying abilities.
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Offline james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2017, 07:11:10 pm »
Funny, I didn't even notice the ridiculousness of bombers dropping bombs in space, but maybe the ships are vast enough to have their own gravity? You kind of have to forget your entire understanding of basic physics to enjoy any of the Star Wars movies though.
 

Offline chriswebb

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2017, 06:08:49 am »
The worst physics gaffe for me wasn't the bombs, but those arching blaster shots and their ridiculous "range" problems.  The plot wouldnt be possible without their ridiculous inconsistency. They had a planet kill other planets in different solar systems, but they can't hit a spaceship in front of them with their blasters?

It seems like someone came up with this idea and instead of listening to critiques and making the pitch better, decided to come up with excuses to meet the deadline.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2017, 09:36:17 am »
The purple haired commander was played by Laura Dern, someone who can act if she wants to.

I just found the character rather pointless.
They should have had Admiral Ackbar hyperdrive that sucker into the mothership.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2017, 09:37:26 am »
Funny, I didn't even notice the ridiculousness of bombers dropping bombs in space, but maybe the ships are vast enough to have their own gravity? You kind of have to forget your entire understanding of basic physics to enjoy any of the Star Wars movies though.

The physics didn't bother me, it didn't detract from the escapism at all.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2017, 10:51:45 am »
On another board someone pointed out an interesting problem:

We now have two living actors who's characters are dead and one dead actress who's character is still alive in the Star Wars universe.

Sort THAT one out scriptwriters!
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Offline jonovid

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2017, 10:56:58 am »
rotten tomatoes
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/

Star Wars: the Last Jedi is one of the top-rated movies according to the critics,
however the majority of moviegoers walked away from the theaters expressing dissatisfaction with characters.
how could a movie so universally applauded by critics not have the same resounding effect on general moviegoers?
maybe its fake movie critics? or payed off movie critics?

based on youtube blogs I have seen. as I do not go to public theaters
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 11:41:55 am by jonovid »
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Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2017, 12:21:05 pm »
how could a movie so universally applauded by critics not have the same resounding effect on general moviegoers?

Some thoughts on that https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

I'm off to see it this afternoon so will reserve judgement until then.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2017, 01:59:11 pm »
While not wanting to comment on a movie I haven't seen,I think there are more obvious pitfalls to anyone working with making a Star Wars movie.

First I want to say that I was weirded out yesterday by seeing this article headline somewhere on some movie news related website, which said something like "40 must watch movies in 2018". Why 40? Seems like a suspiciously high number. As if one would expect you to now go watch a lot more movies, making me wonder if it was now important to have "Hollywood" relying on having a steady income. And I have seen articles making a point out of how "Hollywood" has been making less money the last few years, and critics were sort of blamed for being too harsh on new movies these days. As for myself, there is basically two movies I won't watch: All the 'Transformers' movies (an annoying visual spectacle, with bad directing), and all the 'Pirates of the Caribbean' movies (an annoying auditory spectacle, with bad use of music).

I think the work of ILM (Industrial Light & Magic) in the 80's and around that time, shows a type of craftsmanship to working with geometry and design for miniature models in movies, that isn't there in Star Wars movies of today. And then, there is more to a spaceship design, than mere formalism, in which, you make a spaceship design mimic some recognizable thing, or, just adhering to some overly general characteristic where a spaceship becomes this characterless rounded thing. Then, there's a task for having things making sense, if only for being coherent, and in this, anything 'modern' then becomes more of an impossibility if just tossing out the old and brining in the new, as if it all was a matter of mass appeal, in some cynical view of what people would want to see. Not only would there as I see it, be no back bone by a director conjuring up "new stuff" for mere sake of fascination and spectacle (like with the *gack* Transformers movies), but I see a problem then that the task of working with design for a deeper meaning to things becomes then something trivial, and I think that in a lot of ways those trivialized aspect to a movie can easily be noticed, as long as you care. And I suspect that the fun people at Rotten Tomatoes, and professional movie critics in general, are simply not that into the design of the Star Wars universe, so as to be able to try recognize what makes good sense design wise, and what does not.

Now, it should be clear that the original Star Wars trilogy had obviously some goofy moments, and that was even made worse when George Lucas altered the movies further. Presumably, the goofy stuff was forced already in the original trilogy by Lucas, simply because he was the boss of it all. What then seems obvious, is that some minor things can be forgiven, when the rest is so very nice. And so I was not bothered by minor flaws in costumes and effects watching the original Star Wars trilogy, and generally, if remaining in the mood when watching a movie, I am usually not the one to all of a sudden want to start nit picking on a movie for the sake of just doing so. It is also tempting for me to think think that the movies in the old Star Wars trilogy had a densely layered approach to entertainment to them (music, colors, style, texture, mood, sound, humor, drama, arc typical stories, action, humanity, direction, and ofc. the use of very nicely designed scale models), as opposed to newer Star Wars movies, which seems rushed, superficial and when I notice all the stupid shit, I find it difficult to forgive the movie for that when there is not much else to be happy about.

Without having seen the last Star Wars movie, I've read/heard that The Last Jedi sort of makes some point about the military industrial complex, with arms dealers thriving. Not knowing how this was portrayed as maybe some kind of razor sharp criticism of today's world society, I can't help but wonder if maybe people felt reminded to invest in stocks for weapons manufacturers. Which would be terrible. And any instance of there seemingly being a spineless approach to direction with regard to potentially off-topic issues in a sci-fi movie, at the very least one would be forgiven to think of it all as being really shallow. If I as a viewer have to simply guess at what the intent was, for a movie I would probably be both annoyed and feeling a little uncomfortable. I am curious if there are instanced of the use of the word "balance", "balanced" or "balancing" in The Last Jedi, because people on the internet discussing video games, tend to abuse this word, such that, you end up having to guess at what is meant, which makes any argument discussing this vague idea of 'balance' to be rather pointless, when 'balance' is obviously would have to have a metaphorical meaning to it, when not pertaining to an established equilibrium between two weights on a scale, or something like that. 'Balance' in video games discussions tend to have the meaning of 'change' or 'changing', which hardly qualifies for this notion of there being a meaningful equilibrium, strictly metaphorical or in a literal sense.
 

Offline GK

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2017, 02:13:38 pm »
The critics almost universally gushed praise upon Interstellar, which was jaw-droppingly retarded on every conceivable level. And so they did with that recent Mad Max film. What a complete heap of crap that was - a three hour (or maybe it just felt that long) car chase scene with no movie and a central character who managed to pull off a single facial expression throughout the entire fatuous farce.

I thought that Yoda, ewoks, wookies and glowing-phallus battles and shit were exciting when I was, like, ten. Yawn!  ::) Have you ever seen the guy who played the original wookie - Chewbiscuit or whatever the stupid thing was called? That dude was so freaking ugly it's a wonder that they actually bothered to put him in a costume!


« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 12:45:07 am by GK »
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Online daqq

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2017, 05:11:49 pm »
Quote
3) Spaceships Traveling at Light Speed As A Weapon
Jumping to light speed then ramming another ship, cool idea, why didn't the rebel alliance use this as a weapon before now? Two old clunkers sent into action and both Death Stars would be gone, a few more and every Star Destroyer would be wrecked.
This, so much this... basically they show that there's a simple method that makes pretty much all defensive and offensive technology useless - which I am sure will never be used again. Just add a hyperdrive to a load of scrap and you can kamikaze the crap out of pretty much any military. Mind you, it looked awesome, but it made no sense that that technique was not used before.

It reminded me of Terminator... only organic stuff (or robotic covered in organic) can be sent into the past (because Plot Reasons...)... sooo... why not simply take a mid range nuclear weapon, cover it in pork, transport it in the general vicinity of the target and boom.
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2017, 01:33:08 am »
The Last Jedi might not have done well in this first weekend box office bean counting state-side, nor the first Monday (thought to be best indicator of adult movie watchers in a review I read)...

But, it sure did well in Kabul, Afghanistan!  Troops stand and waited in line for two hours to get a seat on the first showing.
- Maj. Patrick Currie, who was fifth in line, dressed as Han Solo’s copilot in a Chewbacca...
- Air Force Capt. Madison Scaccia was first in line for the show, dressed as Rey...

Above quoted from here (Stars and Strips):
https://www.stripes.com/news/galaxy-far-far-away-brings-slice-of-home-to-afghanistan-for-holidays-1.503806
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2017, 02:38:18 am »
- Luke dying I didn't agree with, it didn't add anything and they wasted the only major character left from the original franchise who's passionate about it and can act, and could have done so much more cool stuff in #9.

Maybe he was getting too expensive? You can get 10 Reys for one Luke :-DD

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/star-wars-episode-viii-cast-how-much-make.html/

I liked the movie. Right, not a totally new story, but at least it was not a full rehash. For example when Kylo kills Snoke, but then became the bad guy again, not like when Darth Vader killed the emperor. The relation between Kylo and Rey will be interesting in the future. Can she convince him to turn back to the light side again?

The space fights and other fight scenes were awesome as usual for a Star Wars movie. You just have to ignore physical realism and 100% consistency, then you can enjoy the movie.

I didn't think there was too much humor or too much trying. Much better than the previous movie with not much humor. This was always essential for a Star Wars movie. Especially the subtle things, like when Yoda destroyed the temple and Luke complained about the ancient scripts, but then Yoda asked him if he did read it, and Luke's answer was like "well...".
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Offline jonovid

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2017, 04:20:48 am »
- Luke dying I didn't agree with, it didn't add anything and they wasted the only major character left from the original franchise who's passionate about it and can act, and could have done so much more cool stuff in #9.

Maybe he was getting too expensive? You can get 10 Reys for one Luke :-DD

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/star-wars-episode-viii-cast-how-much-make.html/

I liked the movie. Right, not a totally new story, but at least it was not a full rehash. For example when Kylo kills Snoke, but then became the bad guy again, not like when Darth Vader killed the emperor. The relation between Kylo and Rey will be interesting in the future. Can she convince him to turn back to the light side again?

The space fights and other fight scenes were awesome as usual for a Star Wars movie. You just have to ignore physical realism and 100% consistency, then you can enjoy the movie.

I didn't think there was too much humor or too much trying. Much better than the previous movie with not much humor. This was always essential for a Star Wars movie. Especially the subtle things, like when Yoda destroyed the temple and Luke complained about the ancient scripts, but then Yoda asked him if he did read it, and Luke's answer was like "well...".

just got this news in-

Even with 'Star Wars' surge, moviegoing could hit 22-year low. Blame bad sequels, rising ticket prices and streaming
http://beta.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-box-office-challenges-20171223-story.html#nt=oft12aH-1gp2'

http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/23/box-office-last-jedi-now-running-over-100-mil-behind-force-awakens
The Last Jedi.” The new “Star Wars” movie is running over $120 million behind the last one on a day to day comparison



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Offline james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2017, 04:30:17 am »
Streaming? That's just a scapegoat. My movie going had taken a sharp downturn long before I'd ever streamed a movie. What did it for me is a combination of so many garbage movies coming out and having a big TV and decent sound at home. Overall watching a movie on my sofa is more comfortable and all around a more pleasant experience, a fair trade for the smaller screen, not even considering the fact that I don't have to buy tickets or pay a fortune for a bucket of popcorn.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2017, 07:48:52 am »
I liked the movie. Right, not a totally new story, but at least it was not a full rehash. For example when Kylo kills Snoke, but then became the bad guy again, not like when Darth Vader killed the emperor. The relation between Kylo and Rey will be interesting in the future. Can she convince him to turn back to the light side again?

I like the whole Kylo/Rey thing in the Last Jedi, made for an interesting story line and it worked well.
And it was a good choice to get Kylo out of that stupid mask early on.

Quote
The space fights and other fight scenes were awesome as usual for a Star Wars movie. You just have to ignore physical realism and 100% consistency, then you can enjoy the movie.

Probably the best battles of any Star Wars I thought, very well done.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2017, 08:08:57 am »
how could a movie so universally applauded by critics not have the same resounding effect on general moviegoers?

Some thoughts on that https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy

TLDR; breakdown of the reasons for backlash from fans:
1) Too much progressivism
2) The jokes are too jokey
3) The movie is uninterested in fan theories
4) Individual plot lines/moments don’t make sense
5) The characters’ journeys aren’t what was expected

 

Offline chriswebb

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2017, 08:28:09 am »
5) The characters’ journeys aren’t what was expected

This is my biggest issue with the film. Basically it feels like there is no real continuity from 7 to 8. A story for 7-9 should have been established before a word was even written for 7. From what I am gathering through various articles that there was no plans after 7 and Rian Johnson had full creative control to go in whatever direction. And because the series was winding down on the old characters, the characters were basically thrown out to make way for a renewed merchandising juggernaut. So instead of this being the second to last film in a 9 film arc. It feels like the first film of a spin off series.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2017, 08:51:04 am »
This is my biggest issue with the film. Basically it feels like there is no real continuity from 7 to 8. A story for 7-9 should have been established before a word was even written for 7. From what I am gathering through various articles that there was no plans after 7 and Rian Johnson had full creative control to go in whatever direction.

Yep, that's really poor form, and it's unbelievable they could have done that with arguably the most important movie franchise in history.

For me #4 almost lost it for me. The Finn/Rose story line was just stupid and killed the otherwise enjoyable flow of the movie.

I rolled my eyes several times at the (many) #1 moment, but ultimately they didn't hurt the flow of the movie.
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2017, 10:17:19 am »
Having now seen the film I'm not sure that I like it - I'll have to watch it a few more times I think (which means waiting until it is out on DVD/Blu-ray).

I think that the main reason for the backlash amongst those fans more heavily invested in the Star Wars universe is a mixture of points #3 and #5.

Physics & space mechanics goofs - meh. They were there but mostly they didn't rise above minor irritation. The one exception being Leia's return to the ship after the bridge was blown up. She should have simply died in the blast, even she somehow survived that she would have been projected from the ship at several 10's of metres per second and, even if we buy that she could try to pull herself back using the Force she would have been 100's of metres away by the time she was able to try (having initially been knocked unconscious by the blast) - Leia was a weak Force user so I think that would have been beyond her. Maybe you can explain it by being close to death she somehow gained extra strength but that bit jarred.

That the new films break from the past is OK but 8 throws away even stuff that was introduced in 7. Snokes for instance - generates no interest in me and was dispatched with too much ease for a Sith (or Sith-like) master. Phasma had promise but has had such a tiny part. Finn is mostly irrelevant and, again, there is no empathy - I'm not clear what they are doing with the character but they could feed him to a Rathtar or Rancor for all I care. In fact all of the characterisations seem fairly shallow, even Rey/Kylo.

It will probably grow on me but I can see why a lot of people don't like it.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2017, 02:17:49 pm »
I wonder if the porgs were designed from "grumpy cat".



Also, do they eat cats in China? Imagine eating porgs = eating cats..
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 01:07:03 pm by Decoman »
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2017, 03:28:16 pm »
Finn could have been an interesting character, if they hadn't build up the antagonists to comical level supervillains with superweapons they could have done something with him. Reluctance to fight turns to cowardice when they blow up planets though.

And so they did with that recent Mad Max film. What a complete heap of crap that was - a three hour (or maybe it just felt that long) car chase scene with no movie and a central character who managed to pull off a single facial expression throughout the entire fatuous farce.

It's a Mad Max movie ... I think it's fair to judge sequels by the expectations set by its predecessors. In that respect it was okay.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 03:37:49 pm by Marco »
 

Offline georges80

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2017, 05:18:59 pm »
Saw it yesterday. Was ok and sufficiently entertaining. I'm not a star wars 'nut' so I take each episode as a mostly stand alone 'event' with a small thread of consistency in the general 'setting' - the 'in a galaxy far far away' :)

The law of physics doesn't enter into these kinds of films - it would be damn boring for the masses (and probably us too) if it was actually accurate to our established perception of reality. I watch something like star wars and assume they will follow a similarly consistent set of physical rules as Thor, the Hobbit, Alice in Wonderland etc., don't :)

If I need science, I'll pick up a physics and/or chemistry reference book, not visit a cinema to see it on the big screen  :-DD

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Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2017, 05:36:06 pm »
If I need science, I'll pick up a physics and/or chemistry reference book, not visit a cinema to see it on the big screen  :-DD

There are good kind of hard science fiction movies, like The Martian or Gravity with Sandra Bullock, and maybe Ghost in the Shell.
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