Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 10107 times)

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Online georges80

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2017, 05:47:37 pm »
The martian - I found it boring and ridiculous - fortunately it helped me go to sleep when I watched it on a transpacific plane flight (business trip so didn't even have to feel that I wasted a flight ticket on it).

Anyhow, comparing movies and how 'good/bad' they are is so subjective that it is essentially pointless.

There's people that think pacific rim was a great movie... (pos in my opinion).

cheers,
george.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2017, 06:31:21 pm »
Presumably, it would be this sense of 'adventure' that is really the appeal of the original star wars movies, and not so much being an action movie. And in order for a viewer to care about the story, the plot (things you can account for in a story) better be good otherwise the story would be literally pointless.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 11:58:31 am by Decoman »
 

Offline Pack34

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2017, 07:54:44 pm »
I actually quite liked it.

I thought the space battles in this one were a tad more realistic. Poe was able to spin his xwing at the beginning and it was nice to see. With the bombs dropping I had assumed that the dreadnaught had gravity wells to prevent nearby ships from going to light speed. Also they could have been pushed out maglev style.

I do agree that the humor was a little bit overdone but it is star wars after all. Typically the movies are meant to also be enjoyed by kids. Things like the porgs play into that.

I really didn't like how the handled the "Carrie Poppins" scene. It looked really absurd.

I was really hoping that they would have done a Kylo / Rey switch. Where Rey falls to the dark side and Kylo's guilt over his father brings him back. That would have been an incredibly original twist that we haven't seen before.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2017, 03:18:09 pm »
I have mixed feelings about this one. From the perspective of it being an action packed popcorn munching movie with beautiful effects and graphics, this one does pretty well. From a story telling and acting perspective there are a few glaring omissions and mistakes. Maybe we're just spoiled with the edge of your seat story telling of series like Game of Thrones, but I don't think it's a pass overall, even though there are some elements that did pan out quite well. I know people will probably resent speaking ill of the dead, but pretty much all the scenes with Fisher felt unnatural and clunky, slowing the pace of the movie way down. They were just uncomfortable to watch. Hamilton was however a treat, and it's unfortunate he will probably not be returning.

It's not about the physics being out of whack either. It's Star Wars, so they can get away with pretty much everything. I didn't care that ships were within in visual range and couldn't hit each other. I did care that a lot of plot twists and devices felt manufactured and unnatural. Crystal creatures fleeing inside a dark, confined space with larger humanoid creatures they're not familiar with, ending up being the saving grace? Really? Being inaccurate for the sake of immersion is fine in a space opera. Being inaccurate in an attempt to fill horrible plot holes is just a shame. I have trouble understanding how a company with effectively bottomless pockets would end up with this story. They should be able to afford the best writers there are and then some. The endless back and forth with the fleeing group being nearly destroyed and then saved again, only to rinse and repeat a few times didn't work well. The story should have ended with the planetary escape. If they weren't safe in space and weren't safe in a heavily fortified base, they're not going to be safe escaping with the Falcon again. The big final also felt a lot less climactic than the escape in space, with the former feeling tacked on. Regardless of the storyline, it felt like a second and unnecessary ending. What I did like were the main characters being a lot less black and white with human doubts and mistakes, doing the Marvell routine a bit, but making these villains and heroes a lot more believable.

The effort to include all sorts of different elements and story lines was noted and mostly appreciated. I understand that Disney has to include as many things as they can to appeal to the broadest audience they can and don't mind some of it falls flat on its face. Obviously, the weapons trading planet didn't really work all that well, but was welcome as a social commentary. The Minions style creatures on the island were obviously designed to sell stuffed animals, but not as annoying as Jar Jar. The comedy was toned down a bit compared to The Force Awakens, which is very welcome. I'm not sure the ramming of the enemy fleet at light speed was inspired by Star Trek, but as a science fiction fan I appreciated that reference regardless.

All in all I don't regret going to see this movie in the cinema. As a fan of Star Wars I so very much wanted to like this movie a lot, but if I'm honest to myself, it does leave me wishing. I'd say a solid 8/10 or 9/10 for graphics, effects and production value, and 3/10 or 4/10 for the story and some regrettable acting.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2017, 04:31:46 pm »
Streaming? That's just a scapegoat. My movie going had taken a sharp downturn long before I'd ever streamed a movie. What did it for me is a combination of so many garbage movies coming out and having a big TV and decent sound at home. Overall watching a movie on my sofa is more comfortable and all around a more pleasant experience, a fair trade for the smaller screen, not even considering the fact that I don't have to buy tickets or pay a fortune for a bucket of popcorn.
I think the resurgence of cinema has changed this considerably. Compared to a few years back, cinema's are hard at work making the whole thing an enjoyable experience. Good and well maintained venues, new technology and great sound. The stuffy rooms with sticky floors and god knows what substances on the seats seem to be a thing of the past. For just $15-25 you can have a fun night out, with some beers before or after and some snacks included. Though a lot of theaters don't seem to make a big deal out of bringing snacks any more either.

I really like that some the theatres allow you to choose whether you want to see the movie in 3D, in 3D with a special sound system or in just plain old 2D. All the bells and whistles cost a little extra, or you can go the cheap and cheerful route and still have a fun night out.
 

Offline WZOLL

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2017, 04:12:45 am »
I noticed another problem with the physics in the movie. When the doors of the bombers are opened, wouldn't everyone be sucked into space? How far above the planet is there a working atmosphere and breathable air?
 

Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2017, 05:08:45 am »
I think the resurgence of cinema has changed this considerably. Compared to a few years back, cinema's are hard at work making the whole thing an enjoyable experience. Good and well maintained venues, new technology and great sound. The stuffy rooms with sticky floors and god knows what substances on the seats seem to be a thing of the past. For just $15-25 you can have a fun night out, with some beers before or after and some snacks included. Though a lot of theaters don't seem to make a big deal out of bringing snacks any more either.

I really like that some the theatres allow you to choose whether you want to see the movie in 3D, in 3D with a special sound system or in just plain old 2D. All the bells and whistles cost a little extra, or you can go the cheap and cheerful route and still have a fun night out.

Maybe it varies by region but I haven't noticed much difference in the overall experience between now and back when I was a kid. 3D was an irritating gimmick that gave me a splitting headache and added nothing to the experience, it was a distraction if anything. The sound is good but it was good 25 years ago too. What has changed is you can get a 60" TV and a halfway decent surround sound system for peanuts these days, plop on the sofa and eat and drink whatever you like. The best part is you don't have to go out, no traffic, no parking hassles, no need to worry about getting home if you decided to have a few drinks.
 

Offline GK

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2017, 05:34:01 am »
The best part is you don't have to go out,


I thought that was half the novelty. I still recall when a visit to the cinema meant a train ride into the city and half a day out. Maybe it's a thing of the past, but most people once upon a time could go ninety minutes or so without food and you just didn't enter the cinema starving because you knew that the "food" available was overpriced and crap.

Now the corner video store is dead too. This Christmas when I suggested that we all go for an evenings walk to the beach instead I received a response as though I was some kind of freak. Instead it turned into a Netflix night with the nieces locking themselves away and streaming their own choices onto their ipads. How frigging dull and boring.


 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 05:37:28 am by GK »
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2017, 10:43:15 am »
Maybe it varies by region but I haven't noticed much difference in the overall experience between now and back when I was a kid. 3D was an irritating gimmick that gave me a splitting headache and added nothing to the experience, it was a distraction if anything. The sound is good but it was good 25 years ago too. What has changed is you can get a 60" TV and a halfway decent surround sound system for peanuts these days, plop on the sofa and eat and drink whatever you like. The best part is you don't have to go out, no traffic, no parking hassles, no need to worry about getting home if you decided to have a few drinks.
I think you're just after watching a movie. A lot of people are looking for a bit more of an experience and I think modern theaters are doing an excellent job of providing that. It's a bit like making dinner at home and saying it's the same as going to a restaurant.

3D has changed from being a gimmick into another tool om the toolbox, and has because a lot less in your face because of it. Directors don't have to show off the newfangled 3D stuff any more and have also become more adept at applying it without causing people discomfort. I don't think it's a huge revolution, but it's a fun addition if it floats your boat.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2017, 01:08:28 pm »
I wonder, am I the only one that seem to associate the design of the bomber spaceship in The Last Jedi with the Apollo module? This got in my head the very moment I saw the bomber. If this was intentional, they should really cut that out. Such wouldn't be good design imo, but more like a simple joke.




Btw, and unrelated, here's something else I noticed only today when watching 'Valerian and the city of a thousand planets':
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 09:29:19 pm by Decoman »
 

Online rdl

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2017, 01:16:31 pm »
Knowing how those movie models are often made, it wouldn't surprise me if that part was from an off the shelf plastic model of the Apollo spacecraft.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2017, 01:22:56 pm »
I remember watching the first movie in the series ( yes I am old) and remember it was in a then new cinema complex, which had just installed the full Dolby Surround system, complete with the full rated 1kW per speaker subwoofers, a full 6m tall IIRC, and with around 10 of them spaced along the walls of the cinema. Saw Crocodile Dundee there as well, from around row 5, seeing every single pore and freckle on the stars, and also seeing the grain on the film as well clearly.

One thing is that full Dolby power levels were only done for the first week, as the people from the surrounding 4 blocks of flats put in a petition to turn down the volume, as the sound level from the effects channel was rattling pictures and ornaments off the walls of the flats, plus they were unable to sleep till midnight. In the cinema this sound level was amazing, you felt the seats and floor vibrate with the sound track.

With the new series I think I will wait for the DVD version, and watch at home, where I can sit and enjoy it without the sticky floor, noisy patrons and phones ringing incessantly. Plus the DVD will be cheaper than going to the cinema in any case.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2017, 01:28:57 pm »
It seems to pay to go to a movie like this one not too long after release. After the start of the movie I don't think I saw one phone, other than my own when I checked the time halfway through. No noisy patrons or sticky floors either.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2017, 06:47:20 pm »
I thought that was half the novelty. I still recall when a visit to the cinema meant a train ride into the city and half a day out. Maybe it's a thing of the past, but most people once upon a time could go ninety minutes or so without food and you just didn't enter the cinema starving because you knew that the "food" available was overpriced and crap.

Now the corner video store is dead too. This Christmas when I suggested that we all go for an evenings walk to the beach instead I received a response as though I was some kind of freak. Instead it turned into a Netflix night with the nieces locking themselves away and streaming their own choices onto their ipads. How frigging dull and boring.

If I go out, I want to go out and do something interactive. Go to a technical museum, go out for a hike in the national park, go visit something interesting. Going out somewhere to go sit in a dark room with a bunch of strangers to watch a movie is not an improvement over staying in and sitting on my comfy sofa in my pajamas to watch the same movie at home. Crowds stress me out, the traffic around here has gotten horrendous and makes going anywhere a chore. Growing up this was a nice quiet rural area and then the invasion waves started in the 80s and never slowed down. It can take an hour to get somewhere that used to take 15 minutes and then when you get there there's nowhere to park.

Also it's worth mentioning that at the moment it's the middle of winter here, there's snow and ice on the ground outside and everything is cold, wet and gloomy. Staying indoors at home where it's warm, dry and clean is appealing.
 

Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2017, 07:29:58 pm »
I held off on this thread until I had actually seen the movie.  I am forced to agree with most of the negative comments.  It was OK entertainment, but nothing special.

Star Wars physics pervades this.  Since physics doesn't have to be consistent, why does anything else?

Why a gratuitous anti-carnivore message with the Porgs?  Who vary between being less sentient and civilized than a cat and almost simian level intelligences.

Why is there a need to keep the escape plan (transports to a forgotten base) hidden from the crew?

Why is Derne's character just doing her job when she stays aboard the cruiser to pilot it to its destruction after the transports leave, but suddenly brave beyond brave when she kamikazis the main ship?

Why, since Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi can return from death to fight and destroy things don't all of the Jedi of the past return to help?

Why were the writers so tired of this movie that they couldn't come up with a better name than Crystal Critters for the heroes of the escape?


Also noticed that the pews of the weapons were modified slightly to better match the popular pew-pew-pew renderings.

 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2017, 07:52:29 pm »
Star Wars physics pervades this.  Since physics doesn't have to be consistent, why does anything else?

FWIW, this is a very normal portrayal of space.  It's physically silly, but the average viewer won't ever have anything to do with space, so it's okay to lie to them.  (At best a tenuous rationalization, sure, but that's what you get.)

The explanation given by the creators of Eve Online: "It's submarines in space."  (Also the blast wave from explosions, stuff like that.)

The same goes for Star Trek (though much of their travel is above light speed, where one might suppose a tremendous power consumption is required), Homeworld, Star Wars and most others.

Let alone relativity, something that's been handled more-or-less correctly by very few games; just one that I know of.

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Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #66 on: December 27, 2017, 08:08:43 pm »
I sometimes find it surprising when listening to movie reviews on youtube, whenever a reviewer does not seem to understand the different between 'sci-fi' and 'fantasy', and so a movie that relies mostly on 'fantasy' is sometimes deemed "bad sci-fi" by a reviewer. :D

As for all the Star Wars movies, I would think that all of them are basically fantasy movies, wrapped in some futuristic and space themed setting. Not very sci-fi about the Star Wars universe. I am ofc, not at all complaining about that. I generally like the old Star Wars universe.

Speaking of movies, I find it odd how adding a little bit of romance and a little drama have people turn sour, when for example saying that the sci-fi movie "Passengers" was bad. :|
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 08:11:28 pm by Decoman »
 

Offline IRFP460

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #67 on: December 27, 2017, 08:39:16 pm »
Just came back from the theaters.

I really liked the movie, but there were some scenes which left me confused.
Is no one going to talk about Luke "milking" that thing on the beach?
Why was that scene in there? What did it add to the story, to reys lessions, to anything?
Same goes for those caretaker-nuns.

Also the mirror-scene left me very unsatisfied. Suddenly the movie goes from showing what's happening to narration?
And who is Rey narrating to?
The scene itself was filmed very nicely and built suspense, but then just... ends.

And there were too many "comic-relief", hindering the suspense.

But that's just my opinion  :)
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Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2017, 06:40:39 am »
Looking at twitter today. Someone sarcastically asking if when with the other Star Wars movies droids were used for hacking, but now with 'The Last Jedi' a human is required?
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2017, 07:37:48 am »
If I go out, I want to go out and do something interactive. Go to a technical museum, go out for a hike in the national park, go visit something interesting. Going out somewhere to go sit in a dark room with a bunch of strangers to watch a movie is not an improvement over staying in and sitting on my comfy sofa in my pajamas to watch the same movie at home. Crowds stress me out, the traffic around here has gotten horrendous and makes going anywhere a chore. Growing up this was a nice quiet rural area and then the invasion waves started in the 80s and never slowed down. It can take an hour to get somewhere that used to take 15 minutes and then when you get there there's nowhere to park.

Also it's worth mentioning that at the moment it's the middle of winter here, there's snow and ice on the ground outside and everything is cold, wet and gloomy. Staying indoors at home where it's warm, dry and clean is appealing.
I think the "strangers" part of your comment is the problem. Going out for drinks alone is somewhat sad. Going out for drinks with friends can be loads of fun. I feel the same applies to cinemas.

If you insist on seing it as just a way of watching a movie, then sure, but I don't think that's quite the point of it all.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2017, 07:44:47 am »
Going out for drinks with friends is one thing, going out with a group of friends to sit in a dark room full of strangers watching a movie is something else. A movie is not really a social experience, especially not in  a theater. You can't talk and laugh with your friends without pissing off the other patrons, you just sit there and watch the movie.
 
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2017, 07:54:17 am »
Just came back from the theaters.

I really liked the movie, but there were some scenes which left me confused.
Is no one going to talk about Luke "milking" that thing on the beach?
Why was that scene in there? What did it add to the story, to reys lessions, to anything?
Same goes for those caretaker-nuns.

Also the mirror-scene left me very unsatisfied. Suddenly the movie goes from showing what's happening to narration?
And who is Rey narrating to?
The scene itself was filmed very nicely and built suspense, but then just... ends.

And there were too many "comic-relief", hindering the suspense.

But that's just my opinion  :)
I understand the milking of the creates to be in the spirit of the old Star Wars, with lots of strange and somewhat disgusting creatures. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to show the diverse universe, though it might tell a story about the little sacrifices you must make to live in isolation.

The caretakes are just comic relief. The pervious episode did that a bit too much, this one is much more bearable. As others have noted, it's a movie that's supposed to appeal to kids too. Just look at the Ewoks or Jar Jar, both hated by adult fans.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2017, 08:06:41 am »
Going out for drinks with friends is one thing, going out with a group of friends to sit in a dark room full of strangers watching a movie is something else. A movie is not really a social experience, especially not in  a theater. You can't talk and laugh with your friends without pissing off the other patrons, you just sit there and watch the movie.
It doesn't seem we have the same frame of reference. If you don't agree that's obviously fine, but again I think going to the cinema is more than just watching a movie on a big screen for a lot of people. You meet your friends, maybe have diner or a few drinks and go see the movie. You get to see what's hopefully a nice and entertaining movie on a subject you all apreciate and afterwards you get to share what you liked or disliked over some drinks.

It's like going to a sports game, a racing event or a play. In all cases, watching from home is easier, cheaper, more comfortable and you see more because cameras show you every angle. Yet people flock to these things and spend massive amounts of money on it. It's about an experience, and most often a social gathering, rather than just functionally seeing a movie. Or you could liken it to going to a restaurant. You can get food much cheaper and with less hassle if you make it yourself at home, but that's rarely the point of going out for dinner.
 

Offline Decoman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2017, 11:38:14 pm »
As someone that haven't but also won't see this movie, I have spend the last week trawling though review videos for The Last Jedi, and I thought this one was particularly interesting. If this guy is right in thinking that the director actively subverted the viewer expectations in a calculated way, then this latest Star Wars movie would be sort of an anti-Star Wars movie, as if being mere fluff. You would think that the Star Wars universe with its existing movies would be enough for making a range of compelling movies, but perhaps the director thought otherwise I wonder. In all seriousness, worst case I think, if The Last Jedi was meant to be experimental or casual movie making even.

(Video is ca 27 min long)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 11:40:26 pm by Decoman »
 

Online Electro Detective

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2017, 02:13:11 am »
Chewbacca in his trailer during the shoot grumbling to himself   :palm:   
'Keep Calm and don't say anything in English, you need this paycheck to cover some debts in Vegas'


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