Author Topic: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?  (Read 19006 times)

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Offline JoeNTopic starter

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Assuming the transportation and automation works, how will these devices weighing a "few grams" possibly relay back their findings?  Anyone?  It has to be RF, right?  But how?  Or is this some sort of quantum entanglement idea?  I thought that was debunked in any case.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/12/us/breakthrough-starshot-space-probe-stephen-hawking-feat/index.html

(CNN) Imagine hundreds of spacecraft the size of a butterfly, propelled by light beams at record-shattering speeds and journeying to distant stars 4.37 light years away -- far deeper into space than human-built probes have ever ventured.

It's arguably the most ambitious space exploration project in history, and it may not be completed in our lifetimes.

But if anyone can pull it off, it's these guys.

Some of the world's most brilliant minds, including physicist Stephen Hawking and Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, are behind a $100 million program to send tiny "nanocraft" to explore Alpha Centauri, our nearest star system.

"Today, we commit to this next great leap into the cosmos," Hawking said alongside billionaire entrepreneur Yuri Milner at a press conference Tuesday in New York. "Because we are human, and our nature is to fly."

Hawking, Milner and Zuckerberg make up the board of directors for the mission, which is called Breakthrough Starshot and seeks to apply Silicon Valley ingenuity to space travel. The project is led by Pete Worden, former director of NASA's Ames Research Center, and advised by a committee of top scientists and engineers.

Their plan goes like this: They hope to build hundreds of little space probes, each weighing just a few grams and carrying cameras, photon thrusters, power supply, navigation and communication equipment. A rocket would ferry these nanocraft into space, where they would unfold tiny sails.

Powerful laser beams from Earth would then push the sails, propelling the little nanocraft up to 100 million mph -- that's 20% of light speed, far faster than today's spacecraft can travel -- to Alpha Centauri, where they would collect images and other data and beam them back to Earth.

Project leaders estimate that today's fastest spacecraft would take about 30,000 years to reach the Alpha Centauri star system, some 25 trillion miles away. But they believe these nanocraft could fly more than 1,000 times faster, which would allow them to reach Alpha Centauri in about 20 years.

The project's leaders admit they face big engineering challenges, and that any launch is many years and billions of dollars away. But they say their plans are based on technology that already exists or is likely to become available soon.

They also plan to ask the world's scientists for their help by posting public-domain research and soliciting ideas online.

Some scientists are skeptical they can make this happen, given the current limits of technology and the difficulty of raising enough money to fund the project. The Russian-born Milner estimates it could cost as much as $10 billion.

But he and his colleagues for now are optimistic.

"The human story is one of great leaps," Milner said in a statement. "Fifty-five years ago today, (Russian cosmonaut) Yuri Gagarin became the first human in space. Today, we are preparing for the next great leap -- to the stars."
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 05:36:59 am »
Stephen Hawking went mental long ago.
 

Offline MrSlack

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 05:48:17 am »
This is the typical physicist who turns up with a design spec like an excited puppy and has to be let down gently because engineering is a slightly more holistic view of the problem.

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Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 06:21:24 am »
These types of physicists ("futurists") where the same type of physicists that said we would have flying cars by now.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 06:31:07 am »
This is a ridiculous proposition. Sorry Stephen Hawking, but you are out to lunch on this one. Something so light will be immediately blown of course by the galactic magnetic fields and random particle flux. Even if you send thousands of these, they will all go in random directions and the chances of getting something close to Alpha Centauri with this method is like pissing in the wind. So what if a random golf ball sized object actually gets there, how does it transmit anything back to Earth? What a stupid thing for Hawking to support.
 

Offline ade

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 07:10:36 am »
Quote
Something so light will be immediately blown of course by the galactic magnetic fields and random particle flux.
p = mv

When v is 20% speed of light, there's going to be plenty of p.  Physics 101.

Definitely an idea worth doing.  Even if they fail to reach Alpha Centauri, the technological advances this project will enable will be well worth the effort.

No thanks to you guys.   :-DD
 
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Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 08:42:34 am »
Quote
Something so light will be immediately blown of course by the galactic magnetic fields and random particle flux.
p = mv

When v is 20% speed of light, there's going to be plenty of p.  Physics 101.

Yes but Ek = 1/2mv2, so at c/5 you need rather a lot of energy to get even a few grammes to accelerate up to that velocity - shining a ruddy laser at the thing is not going to cut it.

 

Offline babysitter

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 09:03:30 am »
Some of the world's most brilliant minds, including physicist Stephen Hawking and Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, are behind a $100 million program to send tiny "nanocraft" to explore Alpha Centauri, our nearest star system.

There is the mistake: They might be brilliant minds in their own field, not this.
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Offline MrSlack

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 09:05:47 am »
Someone found out how to take money from Zuck. Life is good.
 

Offline lwatts666

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 09:17:53 am »
As the Physicist said to the dairy farmer. "Consider a spherical cow of uniform density"...   :popcorn:
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2016, 10:58:08 am »
how will these devices weighing a "few grams" possibly relay back their findings?  Anyone?  It has to be RF, right?  But how?
asking in forum full of bunch of hoobiests and bunch of "i dont have to go to school to be on top" seems like a good idea?

Quote
Some of the world's most brilliant minds
The ambitious project is many years away from becoming reality.

These types of physicists ("futurists") where the same type of physicists that said we would have flying cars by now.

the flying cars is not the problem. who's going to pay is. let alone traffic regulations, insurance policies, and making new roadways for it.
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Offline hayatepilot

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2016, 11:32:51 am »
With the estimated 10 Gigadollars it should be possible to realize those nano satellites.
It' certainly more practical, than to build a single big spacecraft, thats for sure.

Many of those could fail on the journey but one would still have some left to gather the data.
And some of them could combine at the destination to form a large dish-like structure to transmit the data more effectively to the earth.

And production is much cheaper when you can build them in the thousands than just one big probe.

I hope they can gather enough funding to start the project. The gained knowledge developing this would be enormous!
 

Offline ArdRhi

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2016, 11:39:26 am »
I think he did it so he gets to make the "starCHIP" pun.  :-DD
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Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2016, 03:11:50 pm »
Yes but Ek = 1/2mv2, so at c/5 you need rather a lot of energy to get even a few grammes to accelerate up to that velocity - shining a ruddy laser at the thing is not going to cut it.

You've the initial velocity from the launch, you could add some gravity assist maneuvers, the "photon thrusters" may be able to add some, and the sun will shine on those sails as well as the ruddy laser. How much could they all add up over maybe a decade?

Until we have more details on the actual proposed weight, the area of the sails, the power of the thrusters and more details about the laser I don't really think we can say if something near the goal of 20% of C is actually achievable or not.
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Offline MrSlack

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2016, 03:17:12 pm »
I'd rather they spent the cash on working out how to bend the rules.
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2016, 03:19:33 pm »
So the small unicorns will be propelled by the rainbow coming out of their back.

There are so many technical issues I dont even know where to start. How do you focus a laser beam, so it is still has trust that far. What happens if it only hits one side, only for a fraction of a second. What happens when gravity starts affecting the laser beam. No way this works.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2016, 03:25:09 pm »
How do you focus a laser beam, so it is still has trust that far.
Large lens.

Quote
What happens if it only hits one side, only for a fraction of a second.
It doesn't.  The targets have to have attitude control.

Quote
What happens when gravity starts affecting the laser beam.
Gravity of what?  There's nothing massive between here and Alpha Centauri.
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2016, 03:27:11 pm »
How do you focus a laser beam, so it is still has trust that far.
Large lens.

Quote
What happens if it only hits one side, only for a fraction of a second.
It doesn't.  The targets have to have attitude control.

Quote
What happens when gravity starts affecting the laser beam.
Gravity of what?  There's nothing massive between here and Alpha Centauri.
You quite obviously have no idea how light/laser or gravity works.
 

Online edavid

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2016, 03:28:53 pm »
Yes but Ek = 1/2mv2, so at c/5 you need rather a lot of energy to get even a few grammes to accelerate up to that velocity...
True.
Quote
... shining a ruddy laser at the thing is not going to cut it
Does not follow.  Don't you think Stephen Hawking is capable of calculating the laser power required?

It's not like this is a new idea.  There have been plenty of papers and studies working out the basic concepts, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starwisp

 

Offline krish2487

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2016, 03:38:36 pm »
Quote
The targets have to have attitude control.


 :o


Now that feature, I suspect, is going to take up a lot of the budget for the development...


We do not have any actual intelligence, forget trying to develop artificial intelligence...
 :-DD
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then....
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2016, 03:38:58 pm »
What happens when gravity starts affecting the laser beam. No way this works.

Apart from the sun what is massive enough in the neighbourhood to cause any gravitational lensing? And even that would just need compensating for the same as shooting with a constant side wind. You wouldn't be dealing with the "smearing" you get from large galaxies and/or clusters as the mass is distributed so uniformly. And I can't think of any reason why you'd send them close enough to the sun to even bring relativity into plotting the course.

These speeds, the masses of the objects you'd go near on such a journey, you don't really have to worry about relativistic effects beyond some timekeeping issues.
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Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2016, 03:50:05 pm »
... shining a ruddy laser at the thing is not going to cut it
Does not follow.  Don't you think Stephen Hawking is capable of calculating the laser power required?

It's not like this is a new idea.  There have been plenty of papers and studies working out the basic concepts, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starwisp

Hmm, from that article

"Although the diffraction limit severely constrains the range of the transmitting antenna, the probe is designed to have an extremely high acceleration of 24 m/s2, so that it can reach a significant fraction of the speed of light within a very short distance, before passing out of range. The antenna uses a microwave lens 560 km in diameter, would transmit 56 GW of power, and would accelerate the probe to 10% of the speed of light."

A 560km diameter antenna transmitting 56GW of microwave power (in orbit?) - sounds very doable, not, with current technology. Or even technology that might come along in the next half century.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2016, 03:54:39 pm »
see? as said, there are many geniuses than hawking around here. hawking is nothing but a clueless about gravitation, cosmos energies and lasers. asking such questions is quite wise :popcorn:
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Offline MrSlack

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2016, 04:08:01 pm »
see? as said, there are many geniuses than hawking around here. hawking is nothing but a clueless about gravitation, cosmos energies and lasers. asking such questions is quite wise :popcorn:

He's absolutely totally clueless on a lot of things related to the field. He's a theoretical physicist. All the problems he wants solved are delegated to experimental physicists and engineers who have to work within the slightly not ideal constraints placed on them by technology and cash.

It's like asking Knuth or Dijkstra to knock out a Java EE app...
 
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Offline wraper

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Re: Stephen Hawking wants to send tiny space probes to the stars. WTF?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2016, 04:08:08 pm »
These types of physicists ("futurists") where the same type of physicists that said we would have flying cars by now.
We have jet hoverboard though
 


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