Author Topic: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!  (Read 39749 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #100 on: May 21, 2017, 09:18:50 am »
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #101 on: May 21, 2017, 09:44:02 am »
So did quantas magnets on youtube rip off these guys? A scam scammimg a scam?
It says voluntary liquidation, which means they decided to wind up the company. Their stuff is on the site because used Cooney to sell all their assets.

All we can do is guess at why they decided to pack it in: perhaps they weren't making enough money or they feared legal action from those they ripped off and wanted to quit while they were ahead?
 

Offline tatus1969

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #102 on: May 21, 2017, 10:13:12 am »
OH NO, how could this happen?  :o

We Are The Watt - Resistance Is Futile!
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #103 on: May 21, 2017, 04:31:19 pm »
Wow... that's a very, very odd selection of equipment indeed. What on earth did they think they were making?
Nothing, they just needed stuff that looked techy and uncommon enough for whoever visited their place to really "believe they were on something very special"... and some engineer got to fulfill his wet dream of owning that 1GHz scope with the investors' free money.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #104 on: May 21, 2017, 04:38:28 pm »
Like the armour, though i guess it will not exactly protect you from the angry punters who gave you money though.
 

Offline yada

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #105 on: May 21, 2017, 07:01:36 pm »
I often wonder how people get so wrapped up in something that clearly doesn't work. Is it the chance of getting rich? Not all of these investors are stupid, I wouldn't think. Some times people become so deluded with money that they start believing their own lies.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #106 on: May 21, 2017, 07:04:43 pm »
Not all of these investors are stupid, I wouldn't think.
Many are. Last week I read a soccer player got scammed out of 3.5 million because he trusted some random guy with a good story. You don't need to be smart to earn money but you have to be smart to keep it.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #107 on: May 21, 2017, 07:56:59 pm »
Combination of investor who's looking a bit too much for a good opportunity but isn't very technical, and charismatic pitcher who's good enough at praising their thing that is so "revolutionary" that it's normal the investor doesn't understand or find doc becasue it's new, exclusive and complex so you won't find that knowledge anywhere else etc...

I've seen both types and it's no wonder that when you get a matching pair it ends like this.
One characteristic trait of the pitchers is they are naturally "borderline", and to someone really smart anything they say can be exactly equally interpreted as a real genuine thing they completely believe in or as a total scam. It depends on the listener's mindset, I am pessimistic and the typical "no faith in humanity" type of guy so I tend to go with the scam side (and probably missed some opportunities because of it), but most of the investors will be the positive, enthusiastic type who are just looking for the little spark of hope to move ahead (and they'll throw themselves in scams because of it since they'll find it in those pitches).
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #108 on: May 22, 2017, 01:16:40 am »
I wonder if those "Orbo cases" are actually empty... also the thought that they might become rare collectors items in the future, for the same reasons Victorian-era quackery is (somewhat) today.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #109 on: May 22, 2017, 04:03:33 am »
Assets for sale by liquidator :
http://www.cooney.ie/cooney_item_page.php?id=126

Why did they need a DPO7104 1Ghz scope?

It's not about *need* there, amigo. That collection is just nuts.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 04:09:40 am by LabSpokane »
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #110 on: May 22, 2017, 06:51:22 am »
I often wonder how people get so wrapped up in something that clearly doesn't work. Is it the chance of getting rich? Not all of these investors are stupid, I wouldn't think. Some times people become so deluded with money that they start believing their own lies.

Monorail, MONOrail, MONORAIL!!!



People are easily hooked.
 

Offline McBryce

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #111 on: May 22, 2017, 07:12:00 am »
Assets for sale by liquidator :
http://www.cooney.ie/cooney_item_page.php?id=126

Why did they need a DPO7104 1Ghz scope?

They had a Picasso Lithograph, a suit of armour and a robot arm and you are wondering why they needed a over speced scope? :D

McBryce.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 09:16:00 am by McBryce »
30 Years making cars more difficult to repair.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #112 on: May 22, 2017, 07:33:13 am »
I often wonder how people get so wrapped up in something that clearly doesn't work. Is it the chance of getting rich? Not all of these investors are stupid, I wouldn't think. Some times people become so deluded with money that they start believing their own lies.

Reflect on what it means to be an investor.

You supply money to a myriad of possible markets.  It is physically impossible for you to understand all of them in depth (or you're the one single person in the world who is totally amazing, but there aren't very many of those).  If you're wise, you'll at least do some superficial research on where a given market is going.  But many probably don't have the time for that, or they simply don't bother.  (90-10 rule: most of them will have more dollars than sense.)  Or if you don't have the time to research it yourself, you can hire a consultant or analyst to give you an opinion.

But opinions are just that.  The 90-10 rule applies to analysts as well.  Unless you're going to get a statistically significant review from many analysts (in the process, wasting all the potential profit you had hoped to get from the proposal in the first place), it's up to you to make the decision.

It's all just opinion, and speculation, and gambling.  It's the refined businessman's casino.  Even better than a casino: you don't know the odds, and the house doesn't always win.

It looks very bizarre to a person of science.  Remember, it's the CEO's duty to give direction: if we can solve just this one thing, we can hit it big.

It is not the CEO's business to have complete understanding of the many fields he oversees: from marketing to research.  That would be highly impractical.

No, it doesn't matter if that thing happens to violate thermodynamics (those water-from-air crowdfunding campaigns), or is unprovable, unsolvable or impractical (say, NP-complete problems, breaking hard crypto, proving the Riemann Hypothesis...), or just happens to be some average every-day engineering problem that needs a little more research behind it (a bigger team, smarter eggheads, better direction, whatever).

To the CEO, to the investor, to the businessman, it's just another problem that needs to be solved, directly or indirectly.

It looks very bizarre to a person of science.  There are exactly this many types of problems: those that are proven true, those that are proven false, those that can be proven true or false, and those which cannot be proven true or false.

But the CEO can't possibly take the time to understand why some particular problem might be provably unprovable.  It's just someone's opinion whether it is or not.  And what if that opinion is mistaken?

It's all just opinion.

This is the main reason why businesses and investors frequently entertain proposals, that -- to those with in-depth knowledge of the subject, looks ludicrous -- and, indeed, why they necessarily must entertain such things, because it's all just different opinions.



Now, if I haven't bored you enough, your homework assignment is this: read about what a "legal opinion" is, and what "evidence" and "testimony" are.  Reflect on these subjects, and write a short (500 word) essay about them.

 :popcorn: :popcorn: ;) :popcorn: :popcorn:

Tim
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 07:35:05 am by T3sl4co1l »
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Offline CJay

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #113 on: May 22, 2017, 09:30:28 am »
I agree with much of what you say Tim but in a company with such a narrow portfolio as Steorn then surely reality must have not been that much of a stranger to them?

I can see how a company with a broad portfolio of seemingly unrelated market and products could get their CEO in such a position but doesn't it seem unlikely that any decent CEO wouldn't have some inkling that all wasn't right in what was essentially a single technology?

I can believe that investors would keep on putting money in, after all they're only about the return, most would have had stock because it was part of a scheme offered by a financial company who'd chosen based on figures, not technological knowledge.

Nobody likes to have to admit they've been had so they will throw good money after bad, at least for a short time.
 

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #114 on: May 22, 2017, 09:35:37 am »
Like the armour, though i guess it will not exactly protect you from the angry punters who gave you money though.

I can remember getting an email from an Orbo investor who had access to their developer forum or whatever it was. Probably 6+ years ago now.
He could smell the BS, but wanted my opinion on whether or not there could possibly be something in it (guess my response). His desperation and "wanting to believe" was so evident it was sad, he just couldn't walk away from it even when he knew deep down he was being duped. He said almost everyone in the developer forum club were fairly clueless on electronics or engineering, so pretty easy to see why Orbo strung them along for so long.
The classic long con.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #115 on: May 22, 2017, 09:38:30 am »
No, it doesn't matter if that thing happens to violate thermodynamics (those water-from-air crowdfunding campaigns), or is unprovable, unsolvable or impractical (say, NP-complete problems, breaking hard crypto, proving the Riemann Hypothesis...), or just happens to be some average every-day engineering problem that needs a little more research behind it (a bigger team, smarter eggheads, better direction, whatever).

To the CEO, to the investor, to the businessman, it's just another problem that needs to be solved, directly or indirectly.

This is how uBeam sucked in so may big name people.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #116 on: May 22, 2017, 10:21:06 am »
I agree with much of what you say Tim but in a company with such a narrow portfolio as Steorn then surely reality must have not been that much of a stranger to them?

I can see how a company with a broad portfolio of seemingly unrelated market and products could get their CEO in such a position but doesn't it seem unlikely that any decent CEO wouldn't have some inkling that all wasn't right in what was essentially a single technology?

I can believe that investors would keep on putting money in, after all they're only about the return, most would have had stock because it was part of a scheme offered by a financial company who'd chosen based on figures, not technological knowledge.

Nobody likes to have to admit they've been had so they will throw good money after bad, at least for a short time.

Yeah, within Stoern, it's unclear how much of (and at what levels) it was self-deception versus explicit scamming, but the amount was certainly nonzero.

Tim
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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #117 on: May 22, 2017, 11:53:14 am »
Yeah, within Stoern, it's unclear how much of (and at what levels) it was self-deception versus explicit scamming, but the amount was certainly nonzero.

If you've ever watched the guy talk and give demos etc your spidey scam sense goes off the charts.
Unlike the uBeam, Solar Roadways, Fontus and other such people which your spidey sense tells you are just genuinely delusional and won't admit their world changing idea isn't practical.
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2017, 04:14:10 pm »
Assets for sale by liquidator :
http://www.cooney.ie/cooney_item_page.php?id=126

Why did they need a DPO7104 1Ghz scope?


Here in this video they show the scope and expensive probes:




If the first guy in the video asking questions is an indication of how educated the the investors are, then we get an idea of easy it was to scam 23 million out of them.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 04:16:15 pm by HighVoltage »
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2017, 04:41:46 pm »
So, here is what he has been using the 1 GHz scope for:

That guy is pretty funny...
He shows his potential investors the scope trace and tries to explain what this means and the line goes up and up and shows over unity.
All he did, is using the math function of the scope and integrated the current trace., LOL

This is in part 2 of the 4 part video series.
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Offline james_s

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #120 on: May 22, 2017, 08:25:52 pm »
It's pretty typical for tech startups that get their first big influx of investor cash to go on a spending spree buying all sorts of fancy equipment and toys that may or may not have any real value to the company. Then more often than not the money runs out, morale plummets, rounds of layoffs commence and eventually the company liquidates.

As far as why investors fall for that stuff, people *want* to believe. I've encountered otherwise fairly intelligent people who fell for all that free energy BS, conspiracies about the 100mpg carburetors, etc. Makes for a good story to illustrate how "the man" is always beating up on the little guy and holding everyone down. There have been enough incidents in the past where people have accomplished things that most people thought were impossible. I think the laws of energy are well enough established that they can be taken for granted but I can see how less technical people might not think so.
 
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Offline CJay

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #121 on: May 23, 2017, 05:17:11 am »
As far as why investors fall for that stuff, people *want* to believe. I've encountered otherwise fairly intelligent people who fell for all that free energy BS, conspiracies about the 100mpg carburetors, etc. Makes for a good story to illustrate how "the man" is always beating up on the little guy and holding everyone down.

Doesn't just work for tech scams, you could steal entire countries that way...
 

Offline BlueText

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #122 on: August 28, 2021, 05:27:17 pm »
Hi there :)

I've been an avid follower of Steorn for many years and I kind of assumed it was over but I was doing a bit of searching and I came across a Steorn patent that looks like it has only just emerged in the public domain. It looks almost exactly like the E-Orbo they demonstrated many years ago and claims to be an "Electric motor with no counter electromotive force" :

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110227440A1/en

The patent expired at some point in the past due to a fee related issue but has recently had the expiration date extended to 2031 which I can only imagine is because someone has paid the fee and taken ownership of it!

 TL:DR - It claims to work by using a ferro-magnetic toroidal core made of Manganese and Zinc, (which I assume will have fast domain movement compared to a sintered Iron core), which is wrapped in a toroidal coil. The pair of rotor magnets have one North and one South facing outwards. They are attracted to the ferro-magnetic core which cause the core to become magnetic with a vertical pole orientation. They then apply voltage to the coil which turns the core from a vertical pole orientation to a horizontal orientation which releases the rotor magnets without any Counter Electromotive Force.

To me this seems pretty fantastic, for obvious reasons, and i thought who better to debunk this than EEVblog, especially as he made a good video recently on back EMF. Although it doesn't specifically describe itself as an Over-unity device I am assuming that is what it is supposed be without specifically saying so, to not be rejected by the patent offices.

Just thought some people might find it interesting.  :)
 
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Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #123 on: August 29, 2021, 12:42:45 am »
I recall pondering that for a bit, all those years ago, and concluded that there will be bEMF due to the unbalanced saturation of the core.

Also, there's a tangential component to the core saturation; magnetic field is a vector after all, and effectively the core can handle sqrt(2) more flux if you do it from two directions rather than just one.  Put another way, you need to make sure the core is very well saturated indeed (so that the hypotenuse of that triangle is dominated by the long side, the control bias, so the tangential element is forced to be small).  Which still maybe isn't a perfect counterindication, but it also suggests losses will be high, on account of the higher bias requiring more copper losses.

Anyway, the thing with being unbalanced is, some flux gets injected into the control winding.  Think of it however you like: leakage escaping partway along the loop, or variable mu (effectively the lower mu near the magnet makes an equivalent magnetic circuit of an open 'C' with most of the control winding on it), etc.

For a perfectly balanced control winding and core, external fields are ignored, but saturation is a nonlinear effect which breaks symmetry, thus allowing coupling from the outside.

And as I recall, the mechanism they had was very well balanced (mechanically), so that it spun for a long time -- low friction.  The classic overunity hack, using so little power -- and using mostly reactive power -- indeed the control winding is a huge inductor -- to bury the real power in the noise floor.  If you can't show it making real motive power, don't waste my time!

Manganese and zinc will be MnZn ferrite, of the formula (Zn,Mn)Fe2O4, crystallizing in the spinel family.  Just any bog standard power ferrite.

Tim
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Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Steorn Orbo free energy scam - they're Still at it!
« Reply #124 on: August 29, 2021, 02:13:10 am »
To me this seems pretty fantastic, for obvious reasons, and i thought who better to debunk this than EEVblog

Nope, I won't give them the oxygen.
They will just take bits of my video out of context and use it for propaganda or promotional purposes.
The only winning move is not to play.

 
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