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General => General Chat => Topic started by: EEVblog on June 20, 2013, 03:10:45 am

Title: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: EEVblog on June 20, 2013, 03:10:45 am
CNET http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57590132-76/stratasys-acquires-makerbot-in-$403-million-deal/?ttag=twic (http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57590132-76/stratasys-acquires-makerbot-in-$403-million-deal/?ttag=twic)

Makerbot made $11.5M in revenue last year.
That's 35 times earning.
Great for Makerbot, maybe not so bright for Stratasys...
Bre was smart selling out at that price, but I guess he only got stock to show for it.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: Rufus on June 20, 2013, 03:31:45 am
Stratasys made about 109 million last year with a 3.27 billion cap. About the same ratio.

So both overvalued but Stratasys is less dependant on a consumer fad.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: johnboxall on June 20, 2013, 03:59:25 am
Kudos to Bre, he had the balls to make some money. Probably pissed off a few people on the way, but that happens.  >:D
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: justanothercanuck on June 20, 2013, 04:15:42 am
Probably pissed off a few people on the way, but that happens.  >:D

I hear their business practices already did that.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: george graves on June 20, 2013, 04:21:59 am
Congrats to Bre.

As most people know - the makerbot is a good bit of kit - but it's far from a perfect out of the box experience, that some (most?) people are expecting(no printer is in that price range is really)....but it does beg the question.....

I wonder if the finance guys at Stratasys has actually used a makerbot before they put down $400 million?   I bet you they didn't.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: EEVblog on June 20, 2013, 04:40:20 am
Probably pissed off a few people on the way, but that happens.  >:D

You piss off people no matter what you do. So might as well do what you want!
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: Bored@Work on June 20, 2013, 04:52:23 am
Kudos to Bre, he had the balls to make some money. Probably pissed off a few people on the way, but that happens.  >:D

Yes, ratting out the open source crowd pays off :( No kudos to Bre.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: fuffkin on June 20, 2013, 07:29:50 am
That is an amazing deal and an amount of money and valuation in a little over 4 years.

I bought one of their first Cupcake CNC machines and I did feel a bit cheated at the time. It took me ages to set-up and the extruder would always clog up and need re-building. It was nothing like the hype that Bre was putting out at the time and was pretty much not fit for purpose. I know and accept that's what you get as an early adopter, but I can's help feeling a little conned by Bre's hyperbole.

Winge over, the question I really wanted to throw out there is: When Zach Hoeken got ousted from Makerbot, do you think he retained some shares and is he cracking open a bottle of bubbly right now????
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: senso on June 20, 2013, 08:36:16 am
Jackpot...

So much money for some open-source ideas half borrowed half copied and simple 3 axis platform with a hot-end duct tapped to it, and an arduino running the show.  :o
There is so many fools money in the USA that it hurts just to read things like this..
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: EEVblog on June 20, 2013, 09:19:09 am
Winge over, the question I really wanted to throw out there is: When Zach Hoeken got ousted from Makerbot, do you think he retained some shares and is he cracking open a bottle of bubbly right now????

We had him on the Amp hour once. Can't recall what he said about the whole affair...
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: EEVblog on June 20, 2013, 09:29:03 am
So much money for some open-source ideas half borrowed half copied and simple 3 axis platform with a hot-end duct tapped to it, and an arduino running the show.  :o
There is so many fools money in the USA that it hurts just to read things like this..

You don't think they are buying the technology do you? Maybe some of it is worth something, but we'd be talking low single digit percent stuff here at best, unless Stratasys are fools.
Remember, even 5% of $400M is $20M. That buys you are huge amount of R&D. And 3D printers aren't rocket science.
So scratch that idea.
They also are not buying the going business. Once again, it's worth something, but Makerbot are only pulling in 11.5M a year in sales, before costs. And it's likely they are not running a huge margin on these things. So it can't be that, once again, unless Stratasys are fools.
Lets's say Makerbot make a massive $5M a year in profit (it's would be more like $2-3M tops), that's 80 years worth of sales. No one buys a company for that at that rate. Scratch that.

So what's left to make it worth that?
1) The valuable brand name and hype that surrounds it.
2) Bre as the poster boy of the 3D printer world.
3) The fact that they are competitors. (one of the traditional reasons for gobbling up a company)
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: senso on June 20, 2013, 09:41:35 am
That's exactly why I said what I said, the Stratasys guys have way better 3D printers, and I will assume that they have way better software too...

There is nothing special about the Makerbots, in fact I cant really understand all the hype around so many crappy 3D printers.
Its always a bloody plywood chassis(premium home made can be aluminium angle bolted together, ultra high-end is aluminium extrusions, but that is so rare...), some chinese steppers, chinese skate bearings for make-shift linear rails and timing belts.
And let it wobble like a piece of jelly.

Yes, they might be buying the image of the guy has Bre the 3D printer $DEITY.

None the less the Prusa inventor might be a bit upset with this sell
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: uprightsquire on June 20, 2013, 09:48:33 am
Zach Hoeken's twitter: https://twitter.com/hoeken/status/347607361785065472

Quote
@bre thanks for not fucking anything up!  I'll be on the beach if u need me....
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: free_electron on June 20, 2013, 10:53:46 am
Well, so far for the open sauce ..
Wham blam , thank you ma'm. Well sell it , get rich. So long and thanks for all the fish...
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: nctnico on June 20, 2013, 11:12:19 am
IMHO its good news. I hope we can expect a decent 3D printer for a reasonable price in the near future.

BTW a wooden frame doesn't have to be unstable. It depends on the quality of the wood.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: fuffkin on June 20, 2013, 11:14:41 am
Yep, so by the sounds of that of it Zach retained some shares. Good for him!

As to the reasons , it's got to be something to do with the fact that 3D systems have bought up virtually everything else in this space, so they thought they'd better get in on the action at the low end. Point taken about the valuation which is barking mad.

This doesn't augur well for this end of the market. Makerbot will now be fully Closed Source. Apparently there were a few patent disputes between them and Stratesys that have now gone away, but could be used to beat up anyone else that challenges in this space.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: fuffkin on June 21, 2013, 06:59:07 am
Here's another question:

Didn't Adrian Bowyer - the father of reprap, which Makerbot started from - put some initial money into founding Makerbot??? If so did he also retain some shares? If he did, then that is very poetic justice. I hope so, it would be richly deserved.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: EEVblog on June 21, 2013, 07:03:06 am
Didn't Adrian Bowyer - the father of reprap, which Makerbot started from - put some initial money into founding Makerbot??? If so did he also retain some shares? If he did, then that is very poetic justice. I hope so, it would be richly deserved.

As I recall, a lot of people invested small amounts in Makerbot, including Bre's parents and a whole host of others. So they are probably doing pretty well now, and unlike Bre wouldn't be likely tied up to cash out now before the market comes down on Stratasys's ironically stratospheric market valuation.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: fuffkin on June 21, 2013, 07:04:13 am
In answer to my own question: yes

Quote
Adrian Bowyer, who invented the RepRap model that provided the foundation for MakerBot, said he was “obviously pleased” with the recent $400+ million purchase of MakerBot by Stratasys because he owns a small percentage of MakerBot, the company.

For the full article, head on to the Make article: http://makezine.com/2013/06/20/reactions-to-the-makerbot-stratasys-deal/ (http://makezine.com/2013/06/20/reactions-to-the-makerbot-stratasys-deal/)
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: Joules on June 21, 2013, 10:25:14 am
I wonder if Stratasys are maybe more interested in Thingyverse than they let on.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: envisionelec on June 21, 2013, 12:19:51 pm

So what's left to make it worth that?
1) The valuable brand name and hype that surrounds it.
2) Bre as the poster boy of the 3D printer world.
3) The fact that they are competitors. (one of the traditional reasons for gobbling up a company)

1 and 3 are huge reasons to buy. At that price? Not sure. They wanted to make a statement like a lot of tech companies do. It gets people talking.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: lemmegraphdat on June 21, 2013, 10:51:12 pm
One tech company sold to another tech company for basically nothing. These people are counting on capital gains that may not materialize.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: george graves on June 22, 2013, 12:24:02 am
I think what Stratasys is trying to "buy" is their name in the history books.  Like IBM, Apple, Dell, ect....

The idea being that - the first person to become a household name, is going to have a good market share.  But a lot has changed since the home computer revolution.  China will just make the whole thing a race to the bottom on price is my guess.

BTW - I'm not surprised at all the "haters" of makerbot.  There is a definite feeling of "Oh, I could have done that!" from them.  Well, but ya didn't.  Did ya?!?!  ;)
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: lemmegraphdat on June 22, 2013, 01:41:06 am
I think what Stratasys is trying to "buy" is their name in the history books.  Like IBM, Apple, Dell, ect....

The idea being that - the first person to become a household name, is going to have a good market share.  But a lot has changed since the home computer revolution.  China will just make the whole thing a race to the bottom on price is my guess.

BTW - I'm not surprised at all the "haters" of makerbot.  There is a definite feeling of "Oh, I could have done that!" from them.  Well, but ya didn't.  Did ya?!?!  ;)
History books is not what those companies were shooting for. Apparently Makerbot wasn't worth real money and or debt. I wonder if there was an agreement to not sell the ssys stock for a number of years.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: george graves on June 22, 2013, 01:52:42 am
"History books" or "making tons of money".  Same thing.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: EEVblog on June 22, 2013, 06:56:28 am
Apparently Makerbot wasn't worth real money and or debt.

But it wasn't free.
You can't just create new stock out of thin air and not have it impact your company financially.

Quote
I wonder if there was an agreement to not sell the ssys stock for a number of years.

Unless they are absolute fools, yes.
Otherwise everyone with any sense at all would sell every share they get at Stratasys's current sky-high PE ratio, including Bre.
It's almost all downside risk. Very little upside potential on these shares at this PE ratio.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: Rasz on June 22, 2013, 08:58:20 am
BTW - I'm not surprised at all the "haters" of makerbot.  There is a definite feeling of "Oh, I could have done that!" from them.  Well, but ya didn't.  Did ya?!?!  ;)

umm they DID - they contributed to thingiverse, then Makerbot tried to play with EULA and somehow take possession of all the models uploaded.

This takeover has nothing to do with technology, and all to do with public perception, brand name and market penetration.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: george graves on June 23, 2013, 12:25:12 pm
I'm not surprised at all the "haters" of makerbot.  There is a definite feeling of "Oh, I could have done that!" from them.  Well, but ya didn't.  Did ya?!?!  ;)

Yo dude.  "Them" being the haters.
Title: Re: Stratasys acquires Makerbot for $405M
Post by: nctnico on June 23, 2013, 12:57:12 pm
Mostly the hippies want everything for free and they think open source means everything should be free. In reality companies make the biggest contributors to open source projects. Not because they want to give stuff away but because it is cheaper to develop the common parts together. The GPL license levels the playing field and everyone can join in.