Submersible missing while visiting Titanic wreck

[metrologist]

Sure they did - it was an acid test. And they did it till failure.

What ever happened to the acoustic testing they repeated/did real time?

[Andy Chee]

Sure they did - it was an acid test. And they did it till failure.

What ever happened to the acoustic testing they repeated/did real time?

Immediately dropping weights upon acoustic flaw detection, is an inherently flawed technique.  It incorrectly assumes that structural flaws ceases to propagate once ascent begins and pressure is relieved from the hull.

[coppercone2]

I would also not be suprized if the thermal conductivity of a weave is not uniform and you end up getting spots of higher and lower thermal conductivity which leads to temperature differentials and essentially different spots 'yanking on the bed sheets' leading to big void defects. It should be cured in a big compression mold that its basically stuffed into

I feel like making that carbon fiber thing is so expensive (thick) that you might as well make it out of full titanium unless its going to be mass produced for some strange reason


I think basically they saw what they liked in thin samples and thought "well it should be a no brainer to make this thicker" and it just fucking fucked off on them super hard

[David Hess]

[floobydust]

"16 strain gauges and 8 acoustic emission sensors were affixed to the inside of the hull to act as a Real Time Monitoring hull assessment."  I doubt it actually worked, the "it's too late" system.

Titan was stored outside, uncovered for 7 months including some winter in Newfoundland. July 2022 +29°C high to Feb 2023 going down to -17°C.
A freeze/cold soak, any water would ice-jack. I recall the thermal expansion coefficients between titanium 8.6 and carbon-fiber are quite different.

"On June 12th, while conducting Dive #87, TITAN experienced a variable ballast tank issue, upon resurfacing, an error caused {landing} platform to become inverted to ~45 degrees with the bow of the TITAN up, slamming all 5 persons to the aft of the submersible. The TITAN became partially disconnected to the LARS and with the approximate 6 foot, slammed the submersible and the occupants for ~1 hour until the platform was corrected."
-> when this is good luck

[tom66]

The RTM system for me is bonkers.  Carbon fibre fails catastrophically.  Did they ever attempt to prove that you could surface in time if the hull was determined to be at risk?  I also wonder about that adhesive bond... were they monitoring that too?

[hans]

I will just refer this one like this:

https://www.dvidshub.net/video/937093/coast-guard-marine-board-investigation-releases-remotely-operated-vehicle-footage-titan-submersible-incident-salvage

Those speculative simulations weren't kidding (on the violent part)..

[EEVblog]

[Ranayna]

[...]In order to prevent water ingress into the hull, they apparently sprayed the hull with "Truck Bed Liner Spray" 

Just .. amazing.

There was a mythbusters episode where they showed that Bed Liner is bombproof. They sprayed it in a thick layer on a brick wall and set off explosives. The unsprayed wall collapsed, the sprayed one did not.
If it's bombproof it must be deep sea proof (obviously /s)

I i was shown that piece of carbon fibre hull as a customer, nothing would have been able to get me into that submarine.

[tom66]

I am aghast that they were using carbon fibre from a roll that looked like that... but somehow, it doesn't actually surprise me.

[ConKbot]

Man, that's just the entire pressure vessel and it's contents shoved inside the one titanium dome. At least it wasn't slow for the passengers.

[floobydust]

I've worked under at least two sociopathic CEO's and as much as aggression and fearlessness is highly valued in leaders, they ended up horrible. Leaving a wake of destruction.
The little microchip in your head that says "that is a bad idea", "too risky" etc. is simply missing from these people.
Thus, everything will have Stockton's mark of shit on it, corners cut everywhere. His employees enabled it.
That prototype CO₂ scrubber was hilarious, something inspired by Apollo 13 to save bucks.

Clearly there needs to be screening of the nutbars for CEO's and executive positions. They cause a lot of damage, Boeing included.
Some job interviews will include an IQ or personality profile test. Where is it for these "superior" human beings that investors gush over?

I'll say it again - whistleblowing is unrealistic towards stopping a cowboy CEO.
The whistleblower is only being to listened to now? After he's been fired, sued, threatened, years go by 

[pqass]

Of course the limited liability of the corporation protects most f*kups; just a cost of doing business.
Go fast and break things is encouraged.  It's self-selecting.

The smart employees leave or at least know to stand back.
The dumb employees trust their lives to untested schemes.
Most sociopathic CEOs know to lead from behind.
It takes a special CEO to eat and become their own dog food.

[tom66]

Rush paid the ultimate price for his idiocy and sociopathy.   Perhaps it's not all that bad in the end - to be honest, the only one I really feel bad about is the kid because he was probably pressured into going on the sub by his dad.  The others, they went on knowing that it was a prototype and that it carried significant risks.

[dietert1]

Lucky the person who finds something useful to do with their head or with their hands.
All this is about useless adventures, like the spacewalk of hobby astronauts. Another example i found in our journal yesterday: A protected historical building near Av. Paulista and they protected it..
(report behind paywall of estadao.com.br)

Regards, Dieter

[floobydust]

Of course the limited liability of the corporation protects most f*kups; just a cost of doing business.
Go fast and break things is encouraged.  It's self-selecting.

The smart employees leave or at least know to stand back.
The dumb employees trust their lives to untested schemes.
Most sociopathic CEOs know to lead from behind.
It takes a special CEO to eat and become their own dog food.

Have you ever quit a job over safety and ethical trash driven by the chief executive? As an engineer, I've stayed or walked out or whistle blew. The narrative to leave is unrealistic.
Employment can be difficult as you specialize, or there are few local employers in your industry. Example would be aviation, aerospace, marine submersibles etc. - there are very few employers. Quitting a job means you'll have no income, not qualified for pogie yet a family to support, bills and mortgage to pay.

Whistle blowing gets you fired, withheld severance pay, and then the possible lawsuit afterwards. Can you afford it? Zero support.
Putting the onus on engineers is ridiculous because we aren't in charge yet are bound by a Code of Ethics to be the ones to hit the horn. It's not working at all.
Fucking CEO's have no responsibilities other than to slither out of it, clear criminal charges and take that mega bonus.

Oceangate did not have a permit to practice engineering when I'd looked into it, to see who the responsible member was there. Many CEOs make fake claims about their educational credentials. Or they play a shell game with who holds the engineering responsibility, subcontractors included. This was a recent change after I whistle blew, that you can no longer just say the subcontractor is responsible i.e. Spencer Composites or whoever for the design being safe. At least that loophole is closed, in Canada.

[EEVblog]

to be honest, the only one I really feel bad about is the kid because he was probably pressured into going on the sub by his dad. 

Sadly, the report is he was, as a fathers day present for his dad. He didn't want to go.

[coppercone2]

the whole engineering whistle blower thing is ridiculous in some ways. if a construction worker found plans to build a bridge out of EMT tubing, he would be a hero lol


they go complaining to the courts that someone foiled their master plan 

and then thinking about the organizations that refuse to hire you afterwards, its like admitting guilt IMO. 'We are concerned that this person may disclose fraud within our organization because he previously disclosed fraud in a organization. ' I think its always fraud because they told you that whatever is gonna happen is not gonna happen, so you buy it because basically its an assurance. 

So they actively work to make sure fraud inside of their organization is less likely to be disclosed. It seems really shady to me.



Reason for refusal to hire: "may reveal ongoing fraud in organization".

kinda sad. All the organizations are supposed to get money from people for providing honest services and products.. its literally why the public allows them to exist, instead of making production things under direct state control, which is a option.

[David Hess]

[SiliconWizard]

Ouch.

[EEVblog]

I watched the new The Grand Tour (Top Gear) road trip special through Zimbabwe, and Hammond did a joke about the sub. I guess it's old enough to be funny now.

[coppice]

I watched the new The Grand Tour (Top Gear) road trip special through Zimbabwe, and Hammond did a joke about the sub. I guess it's old enough to be funny now.

Since those who died had taken a very uncautious path to their demise, I think most people found it at least a little funny the day it happened.

[tom66]

I watched the new The Grand Tour (Top Gear) road trip special through Zimbabwe, and Hammond did a joke about the sub. I guess it's old enough to be funny now.

Since those who died had taken a very uncautious path to their demise, I think most people found it at least a little funny the day it happened.

The whole thing has been seen as a farce throughout - using a $40 game controller for a submarine (right or wrong, the optics weren't great) - second-hand carbon fibre - parts from Camping World - and it was four incredibly rich people onboard, who all signed disclaimer after disclaimer...  Personally, I think the US government should be sending their estates the bill for the search/rescue and cleanup, but I've no idea if that's legal or not.

[PlainName]

I watched the new The Grand Tour (Top Gear) road trip special through Zimbabwe, and Hammond did a joke about the sub. I guess it's old enough to be funny now.

Since those who died had taken a very uncautious path to their demise, I think most people found it at least a little funny the day it happened.

Well I didn't. Regardless of who they were, how they got there or the circumstance, I think most compassionate people would have been shocked on the day.

Sure, jokes about it now might be funny (haven't seen Not Top Gear special), but to laugh at someone meeting their end as it happens isn't normal.

[hans]

I watched the new The Grand Tour (Top Gear) road trip special through Zimbabwe, and Hammond did a joke about the sub. I guess it's old enough to be funny now.

Memes like these were floating around only a few days after the incident.

If you see the dive logs from Titan, you can understand why. Granted Rush did the first few dives, so put only himself at risk of drowning etc. (although I presume he did the first dives with scuba gear ready). But they only tested 1 or 2 dives at depth, and were quickly carrying 4-5 people repeatedly after that.

(OT) My brain cannot wrap around that thought. When I power up a new PCB that passes the smoke test, I need a lot more time to gain confidence to leave it running 24/7. Rationally it is easy to think: if all circuits work fine and are protected against overloads, nothing gets hot during operation, nothing gets accidentally shorted or mechanically bent, then virtually nothing bad *can* happen. But my OCD brain says: nope, must have many more test hours on the bench.