Author Topic: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "  (Read 8100 times)

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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« on: January 19, 2011, 02:04:52 am »
My main CRT monitor an SONY 19" monitor , failed after 10 years , I am trying to repair it , but I am looking to get and a new one.

Currently I have stuck between LG and Samsung at the price range of 200$ - Euro 

The new one must be :
23 - 24 "
1920 x 1080

And what puzzles me its the contrast ratio ..

I am looking for the LG W2453SQ-PF  or the SAMSUNG SYNCMASTER B2330H BLACK

If you have any tips about LG VS  SAMSUNG or what is considered as "best" contrast ratio ,
just write your thoughts .

Thanks.
 
 

Offline GeoffS

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2011, 02:27:55 am »
I don't know what prices are like in your local market but have a look at Dell.

I've had a Dell 24" since they first came out and it is excellent. No dead pixels.

1920x1600 with various inputs (d-sub, DVI, s-video, composite)

Pretty good for watching TV on via a set top box.
 

alm

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 06:32:10 am »
If you want good color reproduction, look for something using an IPS or PVA panel (or S-IPS/S-PVA or other variants), not TN. Disadvantage is that they're more expensive. All the cheap stuff is TN, not sure if you can find a good 23/24" panel for under $200. Some Dell monitors are IPS/PVA, although they don't usually publish it, and sometimes change it without announcing it. Look for reviews/experiences on photography-related websites for details.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 07:32:59 am »
dont buy LG! i have one monitor that failed after just couple time of use, more time just sitting on the table and it failed. get samsung or acer or even the cheapo chimei, they still work hard with me for this months/years. i repeat... dont buy LG!

another thing, before you pay, ask them to turn it on and display something white. i usually asked them to plug to existing windows system and i open notepad maximized and check for dead pixel millimeter by millimeter. and perharp check for colour irregularity.

1920 x 1080 is my Acer X233H, i dont know if it obsolete, but hell it still works. i got it cheap, so i dont mind it has 1 dead pixel (blue channel dead i think). hardly noticable even in white screen, you will not notice if showing colorful of picture.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 07:45:41 am by shafri »
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Offline Psi

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 07:52:29 am »
If you want good color reproduction, look for something using an IPS or PVA panel...
...Some Dell monitors are IPS/PVA, although they don't usually publish it
Last time i was on the dell site "panel type" was included in the specifications list of each model

And yes, i agree, don't get a TN panel unless you really can't afford anything else.
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 08:19:28 am »
i missed about your contrast ratio query. well, layman words for it i think is, the higher the contrast ratio, the brighter the screen is, most usable in sunshine outdoor, to help better view. in room, i have to lower the brightness of my Samsung SyncMaster 2232BW... too bright!
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Offline GeoffS

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 08:19:59 am »
The Dell models with Ultrasharp in their names are IPS panels.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 08:42:31 am »
Well my eye had stack so far on the SAMSUNG SYNCMASTER BX2331  about 230 EUR ( LED)  ;)

And about DELL, I hate their pixel policy  ( 1 bright + 7 dark ) so to can call for RMA !!  :P

I need clear text , 23" size , and quality that  lasts in time ..
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 08:46:42 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 08:50:11 am »
i have to lower the brightness of my Samsung SyncMaster 2232BW... too bright!


I have read many comments on that, but its not an negative as fact.
If you live in a bright room ( lots of sun getting in ) the brightness levels can assist allot.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 09:14:18 am »
i have to lower the brightness of my Samsung SyncMaster 2232BW... too bright!
I have read many comments on that, but its not an negative as fact.
If you live in a bright room ( lots of sun getting in ) the brightness levels can assist allot.
of course this brighter screen is a plus, but in a room, just set the brightness to suit your condition, will be ok.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Longhair

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 01:11:42 pm »
My Dell S2309W monitor is just a re-badged Samsung monitor that cost less than the Samsung equivalent :-\
 

Offline Zad

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 01:38:18 pm »
Another word from me in support of Dell monitors, the one I use at the moment (still waiting for my 24in Digimate to return from repair) is only 21.5" but is 1920x1080 and was absurdly cheap for the performance. I would have preferred 1920x1200 but they are very difficult to find now.

There are two forms of contrast measurement, static and dynamic. Static is simply comparing the white area with a black area. The nature of LCD means that black areas will leak some light. Actual brightness of the screen is irrelevant for this measurement. TV LCDs in particular quote dynamic contrast. What this does is to physically reduce the backlight intensity when the software detects a dark scene is being shown. Not so useful a measurement on computer monitors, but the numbers it produces are sexily huge e.g. 40,000:1) so manufacturers like to quote them rather than the true static contrast.


Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 03:15:23 pm »
when i was converting from crt to lcd/tft, 1st thing i noticed is super crisp text/image and true flatness of the screen (pro side), no more de-gauss, hor. and vertical correction, perpective, tilt etc (i cant remember already) which specific to crt architecture. but on the con side, the color/brightness shift as we move our head (view angle). since large part of my work is relating to color accuracy (monitor to printing), for this single con reason, until now i still wish there will be 23" or larger pc crt monitor be sold locally. everybody is selling lcd/tft, no more upgrade for crt, which is very sad for me.

so if you notice some differences while getting your 1st lcd/tft, then dont complaint too much, thats the way it is. i still have to live with the lcd weakness(ses). the other weakness is the lcd surface can get easily scratched and damaged if it pushed forcefully, which is what happened to my samsung... own mistake, the surface was stacked on top of a hard edge object for several minutes or an hour or so, its own weight is all it need to create a darker large blob on the monitor/color forever, it has become my secondary system.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 06:22:04 am by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

alm

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 08:09:30 pm »
Last time i was on the dell site "panel type" was included in the specifications list of each model
In that case they've changed it, good. I remember a few years ago when they changed from IPS to PVA without mentioning it or changing the model number.

but on the con side, the color/brightness shift as we move our head (view angle). since large part of my work is relating to color accuracy (monitor to printing), for this single con reason, until now i still wish there will be 23" or larger pc crt monitor be sold locally. everybody is selling lfc/tft, no more upgrade for crt, which is very sad for me.
Note that this problem is much worse with TN than with superior panels like IPS.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 08:11:06 pm by alm »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 08:23:47 pm »
so if you notice some differences while getting your 1st lcd/tft, then dont complaint too much, thats the way it is.

Yes theoretically I am ready for seeing the change , but I will need some time to accept it.  :)

By moving  from an top range ( 1000 EUR ) Sony Trinitron tube , in to lcd/tft , it will stress me too..

What about fonts ? 
Is there any screens that does an better job than others ? ( example spreadsheets ) 
 

Offline orbiter

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2011, 08:40:20 pm »
I've always used iiyama monitors and currently use the 24 and 26" version of the ProLite. They're pretty good monitors and reasonably priced. They're still only TN panels so not the best for graphic design, although I use them for that. If you want definition and really precise colour renditioning you're better off doing as mentioned above and looking for a IPS panel.

Check this Dell IPS panel out.. Really good price for such a monitor..

 http://www.scan.co.uk/products/23-dell-ultrasharp-u2311h-widescreen-lcd-1920x1080-ips-panel-dvi-hdcp-displayport

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2011, 02:52:38 am »
Thanks orb ..     This is what I ordered and payed before few minutes ago.
( I came here to brag and found your message )  :)

I got in to strangle with my self , lots of reading of all those specs , and watched youtube videos and all.
And its hard to resist, and not get an IPS panel , especially if you previously had one very good CRT.

Even LG hopes in the 2011 to get in the market with  IPS panel and LED back light.

Yes I got this  U2311H  at 210 EUR with VAT + 15 shipping cost ( Athens --> to my home town ) .

I did my order at 4:00 am in the morning ( local e-shop payed by VISA)  , the damn screen its the most important item , and I had lost my sleep because of it.
Now at 4:48 am  I can finally have a peaceful sleep.

The better one, about resolution at list , was the Dell 24" IPS  1920x1200 ,
but it was had almost triple the price .  
And I could jump that high.


« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 02:57:46 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline orbiter

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2011, 11:38:15 am »
Congrats Kiriakos, enjoy the new screen.

I think if I hadn't recently bought a few monitors I'd have gone for a couple of those Dell's, however there where no IPS monitors available at that price back then :(

orb

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2011, 02:20:40 pm »
I think if I hadn't recently bought a few monitors I'd have gone for a couple of those Dell's, however there where no IPS monitors available at that price back then :(
you use what you already have to be productive, when its broken, then there will be always newer product available, we can do thing like Kiri did to survey for best product. that the advice i keep in my mind for myself.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 02:22:34 pm by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2011, 04:17:45 pm »
Congrats Kiriakos, enjoy the new screen.

I think if I hadn't recently bought a few monitors I'd have gone for a couple of those Dell's, however there where no IPS monitors available at that price back then :(

orb

Thanks mate, my monitor shipped today, and I expect delivery in 20 hours or so.

Practically what looks like an advantage by just looking the picture of it ,
its the high quality base ( stand ) that holds it ..

And I bet that shafri will agree with me .
If those new monitors have so sensitive screen .
To damage it because of one accident caused by a flimsy base stand , its too much !!  

I do not know if those VESA support systems , are an better option for stability,
but I will decide by testing the original base , and by how secure looks to me.
 

 
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 04:20:49 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2011, 04:23:57 am »
People I am seeing you from my new 23" screen ,  and I have the feeling that my 19" was an car,
and this one looks like driving an truck !!  ;D

I have mixed feelings , after testing it for some hours, I feel that I need to change resolutions all the time.
Because some of them work better for text , other for gaming , other for viewing PDF's , other for WEB browsing.

I am a bit lost about how to handle it..

The Good part , my DELL came perfect ,
no technical issues.
The base stand , its lovely , rock stable.
I had to reduce luminosity  to 30% so to become  acceptable at my eyes.

I had read the expression " thin ice " about LCD monitors, now I know what it is ,
The CRT glass are cleaner  "totally transparent"  than anything.

Right now I feel like a spaceman far away from earth.
And I do not know how long it will take me to adjust to it.

My old CRT had an 22 Dot pitch , this one are 26 and looks like an magnifier.
The pictures of my digital camera looks like to have some digital noise in them, but its just from the bigger Dot pitch.

The only thing that fits nice in this screen , is the HD video ..  :)
 


 
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2011, 06:14:57 am »
i dont know about your problem, but for me setting to the max (recommended) resolution will fix it. if the text is too small, you can change text size setting in windows, game? you will have problem if your system (3d card, processor) is the bottleneck, not the monitor. setting to other resolution will show scaling artifact in everything, incorrect vert to hor ratio etc (my face will look fatter or thinner than it should be, and other setting will not utilize all the screen/pixel area). i think your problem is normal, like i said earlier, u'll get used to the changing, everything look smaller right? ;)
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 06:18:34 am by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline orbiter

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2011, 01:36:59 pm »
People I am seeing you from my new 23" screen ,  and I have the feeling that my 19" was an car,
and this one looks like driving an truck !!  ;D

I have mixed feelings , after testing it for some hours, I feel that I need to change resolutions all the time.
Because some of them work better for text , other for gaming , other for viewing PDF's , other for WEB browsing.

I am a bit lost about how to handle it..

The Good part , my DELL came perfect ,
no technical issues.
The base stand , its lovely , rock stable.
I had to reduce luminosity  to 30% so to become  acceptable at my eyes.

I had read the expression " thin ice " about LCD monitors, now I know what it is ,
The CRT glass are cleaner  "totally transparent"  than anything.

Right now I feel like a spaceman far away from earth.
And I do not know how long it will take me to adjust to it.

My old CRT had an 22 Dot pitch , this one are 26 and looks like an magnifier.
The pictures of my digital camera looks like to have some digital noise in them, but its just from the bigger Dot pitch.

The only thing that fits nice in this screen , is the HD video ..  :)
 


 

You will have to get used to the new panel Kiri mate, as coming from a 22 dot pitch CRT to an LCD can seem like a step backwards, however you will get used to it. Having an IPS panel will also help and is a bonus.


You'll probably need to turn down the contrast and brightness settings on the new monitor as they're usually set very high, this can give you eye strain over a very short time if not adjusted properly.  


Also check the settings on the monitor and see if there is something called 'Auto Contrast Ratio' or similar and try turning it off as this can be a pain if it's continually adjusting itself all the time. My monitors have ACR and when switched on they're like the sun :o


I always set brightness, contrast and calibrate my monitors as it does give better results. If you can afford to.. try and get one of the mointor calibration tools for your new screen, you'd be surprised at how far out the colour is if it's not set up properly.
I use the Spyder 3 pro which is very good.

Orb

JFYI.. Here's a reveiw of the panel which looks at calibration and advises on a few possible adjustments...

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1275291737
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 10:54:42 am by orbiter »
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2011, 01:28:34 am »
Definitely dot pitch is going to make a difference if you're coming from a high quality CRT. They could be set at any resolution and look right since it wasn't a 1:1 ratio like a LCD has. LCDs only have one resolution that looks good - all the others will be interpolated and have artifacts. I also recommend you get a calibrator for it since you work with photos. You'll want something that can talk to and adjust (calibrate) the monitor itself as that will save you from having to set brightness, contrast, RGB etc. before profiling. The profile is a second step that will give the OS a lookup table for fine tuning the colors sent to the monitor. I have my LCD set to ~120 candelas as that was the only industry standard brightness value I could find.
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Suggestions for TFT monitor 23 - 24 "
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2011, 02:08:27 am »
Now since 2 people already suggesting calibrator. let me be the third. without the colorimeter like Spyder, its like talking different language to other people that do not understand. no matter how good your monitor is, there will be an offset in the color compared to what is called "true color". when u edit your pic on your monitor and think its good, but when you put it online, it sux to other people eye. if you also involve in printing, get the Spectrocolorimeter combo as well, to calibrate color on paper (printer's ink), not so good on laser though. Mine is Spyder version 2, so no fancy aluminium bag. but works well even for my non IPS monitor, well not that perfect, but alot less pain in the arse compared to having nothing. for more robust calibration gear, get the GretagMacBeth Eye One, or if you really got the ball, get the more complete Profiler solution. Its the Pro's well accepted Name. i'll leave to review and comment for you to search, since i dont own one and have not updated for a long time now. So... get one!

ps: the most fun thing about Spectrocolorimeter is that you can buy any cheap dye/pigment ink printer, calibrate it, and start printing "close to the pro" quality photo. I bet you can rival the guys who own super expensive printer without the calibrator, except the dpi techy stuff, and choose your ink quality wisely.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 02:34:19 am by shafri »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 


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