Author Topic: Super Glue mini-bottle that doesn't harden by itself while stored capped?  (Read 8761 times)

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Offline silenceisblissfulness

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What is worse with superglue is when people buy cheapo, generic brands, thinking "that'll do" - my Dad bought one recently, it came out like a semi-sticky kinda gel liquid, took about an hr to set. Junk.
 

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What is worse with superglue is when people buy cheapo, generic brands, thinking "that'll do" - my Dad bought one recently, it came out like a semi-sticky kinda gel liquid, took about an hr to set. Junk.
add a pinch of baking soda.
 
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Offline gnif

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What is worse with superglue is when people buy cheapo, generic brands, thinking "that'll do" - my Dad bought one recently, it came out like a semi-sticky kinda gel liquid, took about an hr to set. Junk.
add a pinch of baking soda.
This is actually a really good tip for repairing plastic parts in general. Bicarbonate of Soda mixed with superglue creates a very hard, sandable, and strong filler.
 
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And heating plastics, HDPE in particular, really aids in adhesion.  Try superglue on a milk carton, it falls off.  Heat the surface with a butane torch first, then try again :)
 
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Offline all_repair

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What is worse with superglue is when people buy cheapo, generic brands, thinking "that'll do" - my Dad bought one recently, it came out like a semi-sticky kinda gel liquid, took about an hr to set. Junk.
add a pinch of baking soda.

Try ashes, incense ashes,  better than baking soda.  Saw dust works too.  Finer the particle, the better it is.
 
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Offline Cecil

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Two superglue tips that perhaps everyone does not already know:  There are activators sold that substantially decrease the cure time.  You can apply it to the workpiece before the glue or spray it over top of the glue.  But I would never buy it again.  It's just acetone which I always have on hand;  Second, the glue will last twice as long before hardening in the bottle if stored in a refrigerator.
 
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What is worse with superglue is when people buy cheapo, generic brands, thinking "that'll do" - my Dad bought one recently, it came out like a semi-sticky kinda gel liquid, took about an hr to set. Junk.
add a pinch of baking soda.

Try ashes, incense ashes,  better than baking soda.  Saw dust works too.  Finer the particle, the better it is.
If we really want it to cure fast, I believe we need to add a nucleophile that can initiate the polymerization.  The basic nature of the baking soda comes close, but I imagine it is too bulky to act as a nucleophile. The wood ash makes sense as it would be potassium carbonate, the potassium being bigger than sodium and, thanks to HSAB theory, further out of the way of the anion.  Someone should try household ammonia, I bet it would work really good.  I forgot most everything I once knew about chemistry, so perhaps I am wrong.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2023, 04:36:30 am by antenna »
 
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Offline gnif

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Wow, as ever this forum is a wealth of information from people far smarter then I am. Been meaning to buy some activator to give it a try, didn't realise I already had a bottle of the stuff :)
 

Online themadhippy

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if you want superglue to  set  faster than a fast thing forget your bicarbonate of soda ,forget your incense ash,just add a bit of skin to it, glue always sticks  your fingers together  much faster than the bits your trying to glue
« Last Edit: April 24, 2023, 09:16:37 am by themadhippy »
 

Offline VK3DRB

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I use the Loctite Power Gel superglue and have had an opened one in my fridge for a couple of years! It still works perfectly every time I go to use it. Brilliant stuff  :-+ I really like the Power Gel version as it meets many varied needs. I learnt many years ago that superglue lasts longer when stored in a fridge.

Fraser

  X2.  I keep mine in the fridge and I've never had any harden by itself.  The tube that I have now has been in there for several years.

Good point. Super Glue is slightly hydroscopic and reacts to moisture.
 

Offline VK3DRB

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What is worse with superglue is when people buy cheapo, generic brands, thinking "that'll do" - my Dad bought one recently, it came out like a semi-sticky kinda gel liquid, took about an hr to set. Junk.
add a pinch of baking soda.
This is actually a really good tip for repairing plastic parts in general. Bicarbonate of Soda mixed with superglue creates a very hard, sandable, and strong filler.

Talcum powder also works. I stuck two thick outdoor ceramic tiles together for a window sill at the front of the house using talc and super glue mixed into a paste, prior to selling the house 41 years ago. It lasted in the weather outdoors until last year when our old house was completely bulldozed by a new owner. Hard as rock and UV/water proof.

A really good glue for general work is polyethylene glue. That stuff is is incredibly strong. Works on plastic etc.
 
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Online Psi

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Best I've found is a combination of the following.

- A good quality superglue  (I like 'CA hot stuff' )
- Stored in fringe
- After every use and before placing cap back on, squeeze and release the bottle a few times with it held vertical to clear out the glue currently sitting in the end of the nozzle and give it a wipe.  (to do this you need a brand/bottle that allows you to do this and ideally see if any glue is in the nozzle)

Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline jpanhalt

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It's just acetone which I always have on hand;  Second, the glue will last twice as long before hardening in the bottle if stored in a refrigerator.

Are you sure your acetone is not wet?  As with most catalyzed polymerizations, the amount of catalyst can affect the outcome.  Too much can lead to chain shortening and a weaker polymer.  It is possible the accerant you got had a small amount of "base" (Lewis) in acetone as a solvent to prevent having too much catalyst.  Maybe it was just wet acetone sold at a huge profit?  The accelerants I have used were not acetone based but did have an undefined solvent.  It smelled similar to vanilla.

I just tried experiments with 1 and 2 drops of liquid CA into 3 ml aliquots of reagent acetone.  It just dissolved in both cases.  If the acetone was enough to set it off, whatever polymers it formed must have been pretty short and simply redissolved.  One drop of water to each caused turbidity.  Of course, the water could be precipitating the acetone-initiated polyers.  It could also be initiating polymerization of unreacted CA. 

If one had access to a drying chamber and appropriate vacuum apparatus, you could do the first step, then evaporate the acetone and test whether the residue was still reactive.  This post: https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/102488/can-superglue-cyanoacrylite-be-thinned-with-acetone-and-still-harden  suggests that acetone acts as a solvent not a catalyst.. 

I am inclined to agree with the statement on Stackexchange.

As for the discussion of bicarbonate, it doesn't take much to promote polymerization.  While it is true an excess can be used as a filler, modelers will just rub difficult woods (e.g., spruce) with the powder and then wipe the visible amount off.  That leaves enough to give a strong bond, e.g., cap strips on composite spars. 
 
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It is possible the accerant you got had a small amount of "base" (Lewis) in acetone as a solvent to prevent having too much catalyst.  Maybe it was just wet acetone sold at a huge profit?  The accelerants I have used were not acetone based but did have an undefined solvent.  It smelled similar to vanilla.
There are MSDS's showing acetone based activators with the possibility of no other components (SDS No. : 153652) but leaving open a significant 10% mystery ingredients.

The activator instructions suggest acetone is just a solvent:
"allow the solvent time to evaporate under good ventilation until the surfaces are completely dry"
"after activation, parts should be bonded within 7 days. Contamination of the surface before bonding should be prevented"
if the accelerating action was acetone modifying the surface it could last indefinitely, and if the acetone is simply a water carrier/disperser then the effect would not last so long. Both of those could improve or speed up the bond with neat acetone, possibly explaining the positive experiences people are mentioning with neat acetone.

I'd agree with you that the acetone is a solvent carrier for the actual activator in the commercial product.
 

Offline madires

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add a pinch of baking soda.

Try ashes, incense ashes,  better than baking soda.  Saw dust works too.  Finer the particle, the better it is.

The 'pro' filler sold is glass powder.
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Glass can be pretty reactive (it's the SiO2 on the surface).  That doesn't usually affect epoxy or polyester, but it might affect CA.  I often use a powdered plastic (typically phenolic).  Dave Brown has/had "phenolic" micro-ballons.  West 410 microlight filler probably will also work.  I believe it is phenolic too.  I use either for something that is non-reactive, light weight, and sandable.

John
 

Offline silenceisblissfulness

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Talking of glass, when I was in primary school, they taught us "glass is still fluid, even glass in windows made centuries ago". Even at 7 yrs old, I was skeptical about that. I saw a video over the last year or so where they refuted that and said why - I can't remember why - but it made sense that it's NOT a liquid. (not sure where I saw it - you know how it is with YouTube consumption mixed with TV - it's all a blur of metadata after a while)
 

Offline mzzj

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Two superglue tips that perhaps everyone does not already know:  There are activators sold that substantially decrease the cure time.  You can apply it to the workpiece before the glue or spray it over top of the glue.  But I would never buy it again.  It's just acetone which I always have on hand;  Second, the glue will last twice as long before hardening in the bottle if stored in a refrigerator.
"secret" ingredient in many of the CA accelerators is N,N-Dimethyl-p-toluidine. Acetone works only  as carrier/diluent.
AFAIK some other amines are also used, one of my friends is badly allergic to amines and even small amount of CA accelerator triggered asthma style symptoms.
 

Offline Cecil

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I'm not sure if my acetone is wet.  I comes in a gallon can from a big box store.  It is certainly not watered down as much a fingernail polish remover.  I just tried it when I ran out of activator because the activator smelled like acetone.  It definitely works on wood but I am pefectly willing to accept the chemical reality that the acetone itself is not the  effective ingredient.  I can't remember using it on pottery or metal where it was not needed.  Since I atomize it am I just mixing it with water vapor?
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Evaporating acetone cools the wood, which condenses water from the air, unless it is quite dry.  Are you sure that is not the mechanism?  Sure, there is a tautomer of acetone that shows a hydroxyl group, and acetone can participate in the very well known and common aldol type of reaction.  But, that is not the most likely mechanism.

Attachment 1  shows the specifications for technical grade acetone.  Water at 0.5% is a lot.
Attachment 2 shows the tautomeric form of acetone with a hydroxyl group.
 
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Acetone eats several plastics, and just like heating HDPE helps glue stick, maybe the acetone is just to disrupt the polymer surface to do the same??
 

Offline jpanhalt

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I'm not sure if my acetone is wet.

Surprisingly, acetone and water do not form an azeotrope at atmospheric pressure.  Acetone boils at 56 °C and water at 100°C.  You could do a little experiment.  Take a sheet of aluminum foil shiny side up.  Add a couple of drops of acetone and let it evaporate slowly.  Don't add heat.  If there is a foggy reside, add thin CA to it and see if it sets off.  Unfortunately, aluminum may also set off CA.  So run a control with CA on fresh aluminum.  That would show that the residue is more reactive.  It does not show that the residue is water.  Anything shiny that doesn't cause the CA to set off by itself or melt with acetone can be substituted for the aluminium foil, e.g., some plastics, copper foil.

A negative result (i.e., no residue on the foil) means nothing as such a small amount of water may also evaporate at room temperature.
 

Offline Weston

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I think it comes down to just having a good quality superglue. Anything sold for industrial uses with a part number is going to be better than a consumer product that likely uses whatever batch of adhesive the reseller could get.

I bought a bottle of 3M PR1500 off Amazon in September 2021, and the bottle has an expiration date of September 2022. I have used it quite a lot with no special precautions or storage, sometimes forgetting to put the cap back on for a few minutes. The bottle is about half full and I have not noticed any changes in the properties and I have never had any adhesion issues. Its sold as "High viscosity" but I would say its on the low end for gel type CA. A lot less viscous than honey and a little bit less than corn syrup? I have also never had any issues with it leaving white residues.

A bottle is $19 on amazon, which is a bit expensive. But having a reliable and repeatable adhesive is worth it in my opinion.

I can also second the use of super glue accelerator. I use Loctite SF 7113 because its explicitly designed for post application on thin interfaces, like gluing together ferrite cores, but I think most of them should work the same. Its really just useful not to be stuck holding two parts together while they cure.

Another good adhesive people probably overlook is UV cure epoxy. I use it in a lot of applications where I would otherwise use superglue.
 
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Offline Siwastaja

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Ignoring the "buy professional products instead of supermarket stuff" advice, there seems to be two opposite options to this classic problem:

1) Buy a super expensive overengineered brand bottle, which looks like a space station control room out of a Gillette TV ad. Hope it works out for longer time than the cheap ones; curse extensively when the cap design fails nevertheless (the chances are fifty-sixty).

2) Buy a massive megapack of those super tiny 1 gram (or similar) tubes, so you can keep them sealed in their original metal tubes and pop one when you most need it. While the space station glue thing costs you like 5€, you can get 10 of the cheap ones for 2€, so you get 25 uses for the same price, even if the cheap ones failed after each use. It's easier to accept the fact that they go bad once opened, and if you get 2-3 uses out of one tube during the next 1-2 weeks, it's only a plus.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 02:21:37 pm by Siwastaja »
 

Offline Zoli

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I'm not sure if my acetone is wet.

Surprisingly, acetone and water do not form an azeotrope at atmospheric pressure.  Acetone boils at 56 °C and water at 100°C.  You could do a little experiment.  Take a sheet of aluminum foil shiny side up.  Add a couple of drops of acetone and let it evaporate slowly.  Don't add heat.  If there is a foggy reside, add thin CA to it and see if it sets off.  Unfortunately, aluminum may also set off CA.  So run a control with CA on fresh aluminum.  That would show that the residue is more reactive.  It does not show that the residue is water.  Anything shiny that doesn't cause the CA to set off by itself or melt with acetone can be substituted for the aluminium foil, e.g., some plastics, copper foil.

A negative result (i.e., no residue on the foil) means nothing as such a small amount of water may also evaporate at room temperature.
A year ago it was explained to me the secrets of the accelerator:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4318879/#msg4318879
 


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