Author Topic: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters  (Read 7514 times)

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Offline Berni

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2023, 09:50:40 am »
And good thing is that, while those scooters may not save you, they will save the planet!

Well the carbon footprint of an average US person is 16 tones per year. So i suppose that safety aspect makes them even better for the environment  >:D
 

Offline mfro

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2023, 09:58:19 am »
And good thing is that, while those scooters may not save you, they will save the planet!

Some times even with double the effect  >:D
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Offline AndyBeez

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2023, 10:04:23 am »
I assume you achieved Mac 1 when you were off road on a runway?
One question, how fast can it stop? Or is it another one of those, get out of my way as I am saving the planet and I therefore have the right to ignore all road markings, road users and people on the sidewalk, electric contraptions?
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2023, 10:49:58 am »
Quote
Do they actually enforce that over there?
All depends on the mood of the copper.To make things more fun you can legally use one in certain areas if you rent it.,but cant use one on the same roads if you own it.
 

Offline silenceisblissfulness

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2023, 11:01:05 am »
I don't see what's wrong with good old fashioned, HEALTHY cycling? I made this comment to someone last night - they agreed. Why do we need electric scooters? Kids used to BIKE everywhere years ago...

I realised I was getting old when I discovered that you could use a phone app, to pay someone to bring your fast food from a restaurant to your front doorstep.

</kids these days>
</get off my lawn>

phones are great. Been ordering delivered food for decades; the app is a MINOR convenience, marketed as if they split the atom. Bloke picks up bag, gets in car and drives food to me.... except now the middle men @ the app service charge the outlet, and me, 35% MORE than if I'd ordered direct by phone and paid cash.

I use "Just Eat" app all the time, but let's not pretend its some "revolution", it is just middle men cashing in on slobbish lazy consumers who are "too busy" on their sofas to cook.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2023, 10:31:45 pm »
I don't see what's wrong with good old fashioned, HEALTHY cycling? I made this comment to someone last night - they agreed. Why do we need electric scooters? Kids used to BIKE everywhere years ago...

So when is the last time you biked anywhere? How about go for a ride instead of complaining here.

DiTBho is a regular cyclist, but he may not be in the mood to bike 90km on a daily basis. I don't think I'd want to do more than 40k, at that point I'd get an ebike.
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Offline John B

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2023, 07:47:03 am »
Is silenceisblissfulness who I think it is?
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2023, 08:50:35 am »
I don't see what's wrong with good old fashioned, HEALTHY cycling? I made this comment to someone last night - they agreed. Why do we need electric scooters? Kids used to BIKE everywhere years ago...

So when is the last time you biked anywhere? How about go for a ride instead of complaining here.

DiTBho is a regular cyclist, but he may not be in the mood to bike 90km on a daily basis. I don't think I'd want to do more than 40k, at that point I'd get an ebike.
Me too, but I wouldn't consider an illegal scooter or ebike. I'd use a legal motorcycle or car. Electric options are available.
 
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Offline langwadt

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2023, 03:47:54 pm »
Yes the stability is crap, you 100% have to keep your hands on at all times.

Yeah, and it gets even worse. On motorcycles and bicycles it's advantageous to not hold onto the handlebars too hard. This reduces fatigue, but also reduces the positive feedback loop between your hands/arms and the bars. Ie, when you hit bumps or uneveness, that shock gets sent through your arms and hands to the steering input, which then further upsets the bike.

On the death scooters, I found myself holding on far too hard to ensure bars didn't throw me off again. My hands and wrists got far too fatigued.

on a bike you have three "points of contact"; feet, butt, and hands, one of them is redundant
on a scooter you only have two, hands and feet
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2023, 03:56:18 pm »
Quote
Do they actually enforce that over there?
All depends on the mood of the copper.To make things more fun you can legally use one in certain areas if you rent it.,but cant use one on the same roads if you own it.

here e-bikes (<250W,<25km/h), e-scooters (+15yo, <20km/h, helmet required) and "speed pedelec" (+18yo, 45km/h, insurance and helmet required) are legal
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2023, 04:46:37 pm »
here e-bikes (<250W,<25km/h), e-scooters (+15yo, <20km/h, helmet required) and "speed pedelec" (+18yo, 45km/h, insurance and helmet required) are legal
It's pretty similar here, except e-scooters are illegal to use on public roads, except as part of a hire scheme in certain areas, in which case one has to prove they have a driving licence.
Quote
Do they actually enforce that over there?
All depends on the mood of the copper.To make things more fun you can legally use one in certain areas if you rent it.,but cant use one on the same roads if you own it.
The hire schemes are terrible. People abandon them in silly places, ride dangerously and allow their children to use them. They should be scrapped. I'm more in favour of legalising them, with strict limits to the maximum speed, wheel diameter and tyre size and standards for the brakes and lights. Any who allows someone to ride their scooter who shouldn't because they're underage, don't have a licence or insurance should have points on their licence, a fine and their scooter taken off them.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 04:33:48 pm by Zero999 »
 
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Offline langwadt

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2023, 05:34:18 pm »
here e-bikes (<250W,<25km/h), e-scooters (+15yo, <20km/h, helmet required) and "speed pedelec" (+18yo, 45km/h, insurance and helmet required) are legal
It's pretty similar here, except the limit for ebikes is 20kmph and e-scooters are illegal to use on public roads, except as part of a hire scheme in certain areas, in which case one has to prove they have a driving licence.
Quote
Do they actually enforce that over there?
All depends on the mood of the copper.To make things more fun you can legally use one in certain areas if you rent it.,but cant use one on the same roads if you own it.
The hire schemes are terrible. People abandon them in silly places, ride dangerously and allow their children to use them. They should be scrapped. I'm more in favour of legalising them, with strict limits to the maximum speed, wheel diameter and tyre size and standards for the brakes and lights. Any who allows someone to ride their scooter who shouldn't because they're underage, don't have a licence or insurance should have points on their licence, a fine and their scooter taken off them.

here the hire ones will only let you sign out an and ride in certain places and to sign out you have to take a picture of how you parked it
so abandoning them will get expensive and parking silly will get you banned.

but the whole hire scheme of jumping on a scooter easy sign in with your phone  and get on your way, is sorta pointless now that helmets have been made mandatory


 

Offline thm_w

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2023, 09:42:55 pm »
Me too, but I wouldn't consider an illegal scooter or ebike. I'd use a legal motorcycle or car. Electric options are available.

Yeah, if you have more money those are also options.

Here its hilly so even the 32km/h legal ebike is enough that you could beat me pedaling, and make good time. 
The 25km/h UK limit is a touch low though, IMO.
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Offline DiTBhoTopic starter

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2023, 12:59:26 am »
DiTBho is a regular cyclist, but he may not be in the mood to bike 90km on a daily basis. I don't think I'd want to do more than 40k, at that point I'd get an ebike.

40km every day; when i go back home i take the road bicycle ( titanium-90s frame  8) ) for a short round trip, usually 90km during weekend, sometimes 120km

if it rains or the weather is not good, I have an indoor bicycle kit.

I don't like ebikes, I simply want to try electric scooters ...

... even if, I'm more fascinated by electric snowmobiles  :o :o :o
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it is conformity. Even a dead fish can go with the flow
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2023, 09:15:14 am »
Me too, but I wouldn't consider an illegal scooter or ebike. I'd use a legal motorcycle or car. Electric options are available.

Yeah, if you have more money those are also options.

Here its hilly so even the 32km/h legal ebike is enough that you could beat me pedaling, and make good time. 
The 25km/h UK limit is a touch low though, IMO.
That's the whole point: to limit the speed to what an average person can sustain for a decent period of time on an ordinary bike.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 04:33:08 pm by Zero999 »
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2023, 11:25:32 pm »
That's the whole point: to limit the speed to what an average person can sustain for a decent period of time on an ordinary bike.

I can't find the justification for the laws but, it could also be a direct safety consideration. Above X speed injuries will be much worse.
But my point was it varies based on region. We've got UK 25km/h, Canada 32km/h, USA 32-45km/h. Is the UK one "right"?

25km/h on a flat road, is only 115W of output power. Its a bit hard to see that the average person can only output 115W for 1hr. But if you include sedentary individuals, you could be right.
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Online Someone

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2023, 12:15:10 am »
That's the whole point: to limit the speed to what an average person can sustain for a decent period of time on an ordinary bike.
I can't find the justification for the laws but, it could also be a direct safety consideration. Above X speed injuries will be much worse.
But my point was it varies based on region. We've got UK 25km/h, Canada 32km/h, USA 32-45km/h. Is the UK one "right"?

25km/h on a flat road, is only 115W of output power. Its a bit hard to see that the average person can only output 115W for 1hr. But if you include sedentary individuals, you could be right.
"average" person is below that figure, while self selecting "fit" people would come in around there:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_power
Even young healthy males have trouble meeting 150W for an hour and that's operating to exhaustion:
"Effects of Differing Pedalling Speeds on the Power-Duration Relationship of High Intensity Cycle Ergometry." McNaughton & Thomas 1996
(people cycling for transport generally don't arrive unable to function)
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2023, 12:00:56 pm »
That's the whole point: to limit the speed to what an average person can sustain for a decent period of time on an ordinary bike.

I can't find the justification for the laws but, it could also be a direct safety consideration. Above X speed injuries will be much worse.
But my point was it varies based on region. We've got UK 25km/h, Canada 32km/h, USA 32-45km/h. Is the UK one "right"?
The same could be said about anything.

I think 25kmph was decided based on the fact it's the most common speed for a typical cyclist and what most other road users will expect someone on a bike to be doing. I do notice when I'm cycling fast, I get more people pulling out in front of me, overtaking dangerously and cutting me up, because they tend to underestimate my speed.

Quote
25km/h on a flat road, is only 115W of output power. Its a bit hard to see that the average person can only output 115W for 1hr. But if you include sedentary individuals, you could be right.
Around 100W is considered typical for an average person, with moderate effort, not a fit person, let alone athlete.
 
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Offline langwadt

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2023, 12:20:18 pm »
That's the whole point: to limit the speed to what an average person can sustain for a decent period of time on an ordinary bike.

I can't find the justification for the laws but, it could also be a direct safety consideration. Above X speed injuries will be much worse.
But my point was it varies based on region. We've got UK 25km/h, Canada 32km/h, USA 32-45km/h. Is the UK one "right"?
The same could be said about anything.

I think 25kmph was decided based on the fact it's the most common speed for a typical cyclist and what most other road users will expect someone on a bike to be doing. I do notice when I'm cycling fast, I get more people pulling out in front of me, overtaking dangerously and cutting me up, because they tend to underestimate my speed.

Quote
25km/h on a flat road, is only 115W of output power. Its a bit hard to see that the average person can only output 115W for 1hr. But if you include sedentary individuals, you could be right.
Around 100W is considered typical for an average person, with moderate effort, not a fit person, let alone athlete.

this is for cyclists

https://www.cyclinganalytics.com/blog/2018/06/how-does-your-cycling-power-output-compare
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2023, 01:21:57 pm »
That's the whole point: to limit the speed to what an average person can sustain for a decent period of time on an ordinary bike.

I can't find the justification for the laws but, it could also be a direct safety consideration. Above X speed injuries will be much worse.
But my point was it varies based on region. We've got UK 25km/h, Canada 32km/h, USA 32-45km/h. Is the UK one "right"?
The same could be said about anything.

I think 25kmph was decided based on the fact it's the most common speed for a typical cyclist and what most other road users will expect someone on a bike to be doing. I do notice when I'm cycling fast, I get more people pulling out in front of me, overtaking dangerously and cutting me up, because they tend to underestimate my speed.

Quote
25km/h on a flat road, is only 115W of output power. Its a bit hard to see that the average person can only output 115W for 1hr. But if you include sedentary individuals, you could be right.
Around 100W is considered typical for an average person, with moderate effort, not a fit person, let alone athlete.

this is for cyclists

https://www.cyclinganalytics.com/blog/2018/06/how-does-your-cycling-power-output-compare
That's not representative of the average population, but keen cyclists.
Quote
It’s worth saying a few words about Cycling Analytics users, because they aren’t a perfectly random sampling of cyclists or people overall. The best term that I can think of is that Cycling Analytics users are “serious cyclists”. All the data here comes from people with power meters, and about half of Cycling Analytics users race regularly.

The average power output for a group of working age people, 16 to 70, split 50/50 male/female will be much lower and I'm also talking about moderate effort, not pushing hard at it.
 
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2023, 03:16:51 pm »
I don't see what's wrong with good old fashioned, HEALTHY cycling? I made this comment to someone last night - they agreed. Why do we need electric scooters? Kids used to BIKE everywhere years ago...

In those days you had a single block time commitment, and generally weren't covering 95 km.  I am gradually aging out of bicycles, but in the last decade a 90km ride was a four to five hour commitment that left me hot, sweaty and too tired to do anything else for a few hours.  If you are looking for transportation rather than exercise an ebike is a great option that can also add a bit of exercise.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2023, 04:53:39 pm »
I don't see what's wrong with good old fashioned, HEALTHY cycling? I made this comment to someone last night - they agreed. Why do we need electric scooters? Kids used to BIKE everywhere years ago...

In those days you had a single block time commitment, and generally weren't covering 95 km.  I am gradually aging out of bicycles, but in the last decade a 90km ride was a four to five hour commitment that left me hot, sweaty and too tired to do anything else for a few hours.  If you are looking for transportation rather than exercise an ebike is a great option that can also add a bit of exercise.
Most people here wouldn't want to commute any decent distance on motorcycle,. because the weather isn't nice most of the time. Personally speaking, in the winter getting warm is a benefit of cycling and is why I wouldn't want an ebike.
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2023, 05:12:00 pm »
I don't see what's wrong with good old fashioned, HEALTHY cycling? I made this comment to someone last night - they agreed. Why do we need electric scooters? Kids used to BIKE everywhere years ago...

In those days you had a single block time commitment, and generally weren't covering 95 km.  I am gradually aging out of bicycles, but in the last decade a 90km ride was a four to five hour commitment that left me hot, sweaty and too tired to do anything else for a few hours.  If you are looking for transportation rather than exercise an ebike is a great option that can also add a bit of exercise.
Most people here wouldn't want to commute any decent distance on motorcycle,. because the weather isn't nice most of the time. Personally speaking, in the winter getting warm is a benefit of cycling and is why I wouldn't want an ebike.

you can use it as a normal bike, here the rules limit the electric aid to below 25km/h, so just pedal faster
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2023, 07:41:47 pm »
I don't see what's wrong with good old fashioned, HEALTHY cycling? I made this comment to someone last night - they agreed. Why do we need electric scooters? Kids used to BIKE everywhere years ago...

In those days you had a single block time commitment, and generally weren't covering 95 km.  I am gradually aging out of bicycles, but in the last decade a 90km ride was a four to five hour commitment that left me hot, sweaty and too tired to do anything else for a few hours.  If you are looking for transportation rather than exercise an ebike is a great option that can also add a bit of exercise.
Most people here wouldn't want to commute any decent distance on motorcycle,. because the weather isn't nice most of the time. Personally speaking, in the winter getting warm is a benefit of cycling and is why I wouldn't want an ebike.

you can use it as a normal bike, here the rules limit the electric aid to below 25km/h, so just pedal faster

Sure, but for pedaling, I just prefer normal bikes though, that don't weigh 30kg. ;D
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2023, 08:00:01 pm »
I don't see what's wrong with good old fashioned, HEALTHY cycling? I made this comment to someone last night - they agreed. Why do we need electric scooters? Kids used to BIKE everywhere years ago...

In those days you had a single block time commitment, and generally weren't covering 95 km.  I am gradually aging out of bicycles, but in the last decade a 90km ride was a four to five hour commitment that left me hot, sweaty and too tired to do anything else for a few hours.  If you are looking for transportation rather than exercise an ebike is a great option that can also add a bit of exercise.
Most people here wouldn't want to commute any decent distance on motorcycle,. because the weather isn't nice most of the time. Personally speaking, in the winter getting warm is a benefit of cycling and is why I wouldn't want an ebike.

you can use it as a normal bike, here the rules limit the electric aid to below 25km/h, so just pedal faster

Sure, but for pedaling, I just prefer normal bikes though, that don't weigh 30kg. ;D

afaict electric roadbikes are more like 12-15kg

 


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