General > General Technical Chat
superfast (too fast?) electric scooters
langwadt:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on April 30, 2023, 08:00:04 am ---
--- Quote from: Psi on April 29, 2023, 11:45:37 pm ---Yeah, that law is pretty common in many parts of the world, a lot of people DIY building a E-bike ignore it and add a throttle anyway.
You can do it somewhat stealthy, so it's not obvious if the police actually check that but most dont.
--- End quote ---
All is well, until you're involved in a serious accident, then they'll make more of an effort to investigate.
--- End quote ---
and you might be ruined because no insurance will cover
Zero999:
--- Quote from: Psi on April 30, 2023, 08:37:05 am ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on April 30, 2023, 08:00:04 am ---
--- Quote from: Psi on April 29, 2023, 11:45:37 pm ---Yeah, that law is pretty common in many parts of the world, a lot of people DIY building a E-bike ignore it and add a throttle anyway.
You can do it somewhat stealthy, so it's not obvious if the police actually check that but most dont.
--- End quote ---
All is well, until you're involved in a serious accident, then they'll make more of an effort to investigate.
--- End quote ---
There is some risk to it yes, but in NZ at least the law doesn't actually ban having a throttle.
It's more that the e-bike must:
"be designed to be primarily propelled by the muscular energy of the rider".
So it's more about what the bike was "designed" to do rather than what you're were actually using it for at any specific time.
This is a bit of a loop hole as it was never written to regulate home-built bikes, it was intended for e-bikes you buy in a store.
It also comes down to how you define "primarily". If you only ever use pedal assist but only put in 20% of the energy are you in compliance with the law?
If you have a huge battery pack that takes up a significant amount of space on the bike then it's pretty hard to argue the primary use of the bike is for pedaling.
But if you have a normal size battery and a throttle you can still argue that you primarily pedal when on the bike and it's hard for them to prove you don't typically pedal and just so happened to be using the throttle on the day of an accident. (assuming they can prove you actually were using it at all, which seems unlikely). And if the bike controller is set to always boot-up in pedal assist mode until you press a button to enable the throttle, then even better.
--- End quote ---
The law in the UK is more clear. The fact it's ambiguous where you live, is more concerning. It's a tactic of authoritarian regimes, who apply the law, when it suits them. No, I'm not picking on New Zealand. The UK also has some laws which are ambiguous, such as the one around TV licencing, which doesn't clearly define a TV station.
Someone:
--- Quote from: langwadt on April 30, 2023, 12:50:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on April 30, 2023, 11:06:58 am ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on April 29, 2023, 01:12:34 pm ---
--- Quote from: Psi on April 29, 2023, 05:10:13 am ---The point of an E-bike to me is for it to be fun to drive/ride, basically like you have a mini-motorbike with fun acceleration.
Pedal-assist is totally pointless to me, give me a throttle or there's no point.
--- End quote ---
I don't know about Australia, but in the UK, which is where the original poster is, all ebikes have to be pedal assist, capped to 250W and 25kmph. Want a throttle? Get a motorcycle licence. Sorry. I don't make the rules and would not advocate breaking the law.
--- End quote ---
Australia had transitionary rules that allowed throttles, then adopted the EU pedal assist / 250W / 25km limits. Over in The Netherlands where light weight speed limited vehicles have a much longer history (more categories, and different spaces to use) the Police have solutions:
--- End quote ---
so you deploy VW dieselgate tactics and make sure it is within legal limits on the test stand ;)
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You can do what you like, but over here if spotted by some officer of the law going above the limited speed (that they can substantiate) or something else that catches their attention then you can end up with the vehicle impounded and all the bonus unregistered/uninsured/unlicensed fines along with it.
https://maribyrnonghobsonsbay.starweekly.com.au/news/electric-bike-impounded/
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-06/escooter-illegal-to-ride-victoria-police-safety-blitz/101498938
Psi:
It would be pretty trivial to have a 250W power and 25kph speed limit the default and those limits get disabled on hidden button press. Then you just need to power it off if you suspect it's going to be tested.
Not suggesting anyone does that. just saying...
Psi:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on April 30, 2023, 02:30:08 pm ---The fact it's ambiguous where you live, is more concerning. It's a tactic of authoritarian regimes, who apply the law, when it suits them. No, I'm not picking on New Zealand. The UK also has some laws which are ambiguous, such as the one around TV licencing, which doesn't clearly define a TV station.
--- End quote ---
Na, the rules just have not been updated in ages.
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