Supporters section?

[ivan747]

For split second I saw a button on the forum page saying something like "Supporters". For $25 you get access to a private section of the forum and private, exclusive videos. Dave, what's going on? 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=subscriptions

[EEVblog]

Yes, I am trying to setup a private supports section on the forum (but am having a few technical difficulties at present).
The idea is that the people who want to donate get at least something in return. i.e. access to a section of the forum that regular members don't.
What use is that? I don't really know yet, but I could maybe posts some behind the scenes/update videos or something, have discount coupons for stuff or something like that 
Note that this is NOT the "extra paid content" I've been thinking about, it's just a benefit for those who donate.

Those who don't wish to donate, you haven't lost anything.

As always, comments invited.

[marshallh]

Well I just paid up so we'll see soon enough

[EEVblog]

Well I just paid up so we'll see soon enough

I'd better post something in there then! 
So it all worked fine and you now have access to the section?
It seems I've got it working now. Regular members and guests will see the section exists, but won't be able to access it.
Those with over 1000 posts should automatically get access also.

[marshallh]

Well I just paid up so we'll see soon enough

I'd better post something in there then! 
So it all worked fine and you now have access to the section?
It seems I've got it working now. Regular members and guests will see the section exists, but won't be able to access it.
Those with over 1000 posts should automatically get access also.

"The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

The paypal transaction said it was via eCheck, odd because usually I just pull off some of the account balance

[EEVblog]

"The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

Hmm. It should have automatically changed your profile to "Supporter"...

The paypal transaction said it was via eCheck, odd because usually I just pull off some of the account balance

Hmm again, eCheck usually takes days to process.

I can't see you (or anyone) in the subscriptions section, it's empty. But when I try to add you manually it says you are already subscribed.
Hmm, something ain't right.
I did just fix IPN notification in Paypal though, so maybe that was it.

[marshallh]

Working now

[EEVblog]

Working now

Yep, I see Supporter next to your name on the left there.
You still aren't showing up in the internal subscriber list though, crazy...

[EEVblog]

Ah, it had set your subscription to expire in 2005!   
Fixed.

[Lightages]

So all those who have contributed money in the past, those who have contributed much of their time and expertise to help you grow the forum, and those who cannot afford to pay do not get the benefit of this "private club"? Is this really fair?

[GeoffS]

So all those who have contributed money in the past, those who have contributed much of their time and expertise to help you grow the forum, and those who cannot afford to pay do not get the benefit of this "private club"? Is this really fair?

If the information in the supporters section is over and above that which is currently available on the forum, I don't see a problem.
Existing users are not losing anything. Users will decide if the extra 'goodies' are considered worth contributing for.

[EEVblog]

So all those who have contributed money in the past, those who have contributed much of their time and expertise to help you grow the forum, and those who cannot afford to pay do not get the benefit of this "private club"? Is this really fair?

No, it's not. That's why I said those who have made large contributions to the forum (1000+ posts) will automatically get added (about 35 people I think currently).
I also have not mentioned that those who have donated in the past will also get access, just let me know if you want it. I have no way to automatically correlate previous paypal donations to forum accounts.

So the questions comes down to do I offer nothing at all to those who have donated financially (and with large content contributions), or do I offer something?
And if I do offer them something, even if it's just token access to a "private" board on the forum, what's the threshold? Is it a thousand posts, 500?, 250? 100?, 50? Does the person at 900 posts, or 400 posts, or 200 feel like they are being left out?

[PA0PBZ]

So all those who have contributed money in the past, those who have contributed much of their time and expertise to help you grow the forum, and those who cannot afford to pay do not get the benefit of this "private club"? Is this really fair?

Oh come on, only 48 more posts and you are in.

[nitro2k01]

So, what I'm thinking is, what is the incentive? What are people supposed to talk about in the supporter forum? One benefit is that it's out of the way of curious and Googley eyes. But is that enough incentive? Talking about things without getting replies from "common idiots"? Gossiping out of public view? I guess time will tell what people will discuss.

I think at the very least, that supporters should be able to turn off the ads.

[EEVblog]

So, what I'm thinking is, what is the incentive? What are people supposed to talk about in the supporter forum? One benefit is that it's out of the way of curious and Googley eyes. But is that enough incentive? Talking about things without getting replies from "common idiots"? Gossiping out of public view? I guess time will tell what people will discuss.

I don't really know if a private section in itself is an "incentive" or not, but at least it gives me a place to potentially offer something additional. e.g. I could upload the odd video of something and have it set private, the URL or which is only available in the private section. I could also have discount codes for merch or other products, or maybe even giveaways or something. Maybe show a project I'm working on that I wouldn't normally show to the general public yet?
The posting volume should also be low enough so that I'm able to read every post, unlike the rest of the forum with 600+ posts a day. So if you are a supporter and want to ask me something that would be the best place.
And I'm open to other suggestions.

I think at the very least, that supporters should be able to turn off the ads.

Yes, I agree. I'll see if that's possible. Off-hand I don't think so.

[Precisiontools]

Here's an incentive...how about we support someone who made the effort to bring us all together?

[ISmellBurning]

The first words on every page of this forum are as follows...

"EEVblog Electronics Community Forum ......    A FREE & OPEN Forum For Electronics Enthusiasts & Professionals"

Just saying, but with 'paid for, private' sections, you may feel the need to reword this.   

[firewalker]

What about users that donate an amount every month?

Alexander.

[PA0PBZ]

Well, I paid. Not because of wanting access to all the secrets, but just because it was about time to make a small donation, and this is a good moment to do so 

[marshallh]

There are a variety of things I will be more forthcoming to talk about when it won't be spidered and indexed by Google.

Works in progress, more speicalized things, etc.. sure there are others too.

[Rufus]

No, it's not. That's why I said those who have made large contributions to the forum (1000+ posts) will automatically get added (about 35 people I think currently).

Like Kiriakos-GR still our largest contributor?

So the questions comes down to do I offer nothing at all to those who have donated financially (and with large content contributions), or do I offer something?

When you offer something in return for a donation it becomes a payment. You won't attract payments without offering a lot and loose at least some of the 'feel-good' attraction of donating.

In the past it has annoyed the hell out of me to find a donation to the author of some freeware later turned into a payment by updates being made available only to doners. I deliberately didn't provide any forum profile with my donation so didn't even get access to the updates I had unknowingly paid for.

[GeoffS]

No, it's not. That's why I said those who have made large contributions to the forum (1000+ posts) will automatically get added (about 35 people I think currently).

Like Kiriakos-GR?

Rules don't apply to banned users, that's why they get banned.   

[EEVblog]

The first words on every page of this forum are as follows...
"EEVblog Electronics Community Forum ......    A FREE & OPEN Forum For Electronics Enthusiasts & Professionals"
Just saying, but with 'paid for, private' sections, you may feel the need to reword this.   

Ok, so you have a better suggestion about how I can offer something for the donators and major contributors?
If so I'm all ears.
I thought a section on the forum would be a good idea because:
a) Many people already have account, no need to set up and account and visit somewhere else.
b) The forum software has the mechanism in place to do this already.

[EEVblog]

What about users that donate an amount every month?

Of course. If you are one of those contributors then drop me an email and I'll add you.
I don't have an automated way to know what contributors correspond to what forum accounts.

[EEVblog]

There are a variety of things I will be more forthcoming to talk about when it won't be spidered and indexed by Google.
Works in progress, more speicalized things, etc.. sure there are others too.

That could be one of the benefits I guess. Potentially get some technical feedback from a narrow group of people instead of going public.
I'm pretty sure that section will be hidden form the bots, but have no way to actually test this?

[EEVblog]

Like Kiriakos-GR still our largest contributor?

The system automatically gives accounts access to boards based on their post count.
But in this case a banned user can't log in, so they should only be able to view the forum as a regular guest. i.e no access to the private area of the contests board.

When you offer something in return for a donation it becomes a payment. You won't attract payments without offering a lot and loose at least some of the 'feel-good' attraction of donating.

You can still donate the old fashioned way.
But now the option exists for people to get something for their donation is they so chose.
I don't see the problem with that, but that's maybe just me?

[EEVblog]

I've added a poll on this.

[gocemk]

I think the best way to "reward" the supporters would be through giveaways and discounts on eevblog merchandise. I also think that it would be a bad idea to make a private (supporters only) video about some of your projects because a lot of the members (including me) are here to learn something new about EE and showing the design process of some project is one of the best ways to do it. (e.g. the series on the USB Power Supply).

Cheers.

[firewalker]

I don;t believe Dave would share something educational to a private section.

Alexander.

[gocemk]

I don;t believe Dave would share something educational to a private section.

Alexander.

I haven't thought of that. In that case i guess it would be justified.

Goce.

[EEVblog]

I don;t believe Dave would share something educational to a private section.

Correct.
Any videos would be update/in-the-know style. e.g. you might find out what my latest project is before everyone else for example.

[SgtRock]

Dear Dave:

--I am all in favor of your idea. I think you deserve an increase in revenue. I know what little boys can do to clothing and shoes. You provide a whole lot of entertainment, research, and repair help for your members, gratis. I am rather ashamed that I have only made one paltry contribution, over the years, but I plead poverty. My first idea for a benefit for supporters, is for you to have a lottery several times per year. Supporters would pay a dollar for a ticket, and get a chance to win a SMD soldering kit consisting of the parts for a µCurrent, or something like. I should like to remind everyone to first go to EEVBlog and then to Amazon, so that the Blog will get a small fee which costs the purchaser nothing.

"Business is never so healthy as when, like a chicken, it must do a certain amount of scratching around for what it gets."
Henry Ford 1863 - 1947

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[EEVblog]

I think the best way to "reward" the supporters would be through giveaways and discounts on eevblog merchandise.

Yes, but I do need somewhere to announce that stuff.
e.g. it's a lot of work to (manually) collect and maintain an email database of new donors etc, and whether or not they actually want to get emailed offers.
A private forum board provides a ready place to offer and announce that stuff if people are interested. Those that want to donate but aren't interested in any offers need not visit the forum board.

I'm willing to bet that almost no one would be against this whole idea of giving something back to donors if I simply sent out emails or something. I think it's the fact that it's on the forum, and presents the air of "haves" vs the "have nots" 

[EEVblog]

--I am all in favor of your idea. I think you deserve an increase in revenue.

Just the be up-front. Yes, this may potentially bring in some increased revenue (at best not a huge amount though, or not much extra/if anything worst case), but primarily it's a way to give at least something back to people who donate and also contribute enormously to the forum. At the moment they get zip, except for a brief thank you email. Yet based on the poll above, a large percentage of people seem to think that giving something back is a BAD idea? 

I should like to remind everyone to first go to EEVBlog and then to Amazon, so that the Blog will get as small fee which costs the purchaser nothing.

Yes, the amazon affiliate thing actually brings in a fair bit of money. It's an easy way to support the blog if you happen to buy stuff through Amazon. I get 6% on each transaction, and that doesn't come out of your pocket.

[GK]

I think you deserve an increase in revenue.

Isn't a means to that end increasing the sites exposure? More unique hits, greater revenue from advertising? I've got a few good ideas on how Dave could radically increase his sites exposure basically overnight. The first requires a Mohammad costume and an inflatable camel. Procure those then contact me for further instruction.     

[Rufus]

Yet based on the poll above, a large percentage of people seem to think that giving something back is a BAD idea? 

I voted no not because it is a bad idea but because it is nonsense. Giving anything 'back' makes it a payment not a donation. What will your tax man make of such 'donations'?

If you had polled about having a subscriber area/features I would have probably voted 'don't care'.

[ElektroQuark]

I think the best way to "reward" the supporters would be through giveaways and discounts on eevblog merchandise.

Yes, but I do need somewhere to announce that stuff.

Those type of rewards must be announced in public to generate new supporters.

[jucole]

I'm not a sponsor but only because I have very little spare money but I'm very happy to give up some of my free time and create the odd new icon for the forum,       

I actually voted "no";  but not because I'm against giving something back;  I voted that way because I feel "giving" means,  just that!   no obligations, no strings.

[ISmellBurning]

The first words on every page of this forum are as follows...
"EEVblog Electronics Community Forum ......    A FREE & OPEN Forum For Electronics Enthusiasts & Professionals"
Just saying, but with 'paid for, private' sections, you may feel the need to reword this.   

Ok, so you have a better suggestion about how I can offer something for the donators and major contributors?
If so I'm all ears.
I thought a section on the forum would be a good idea because:
a) Many people already have account, no need to set up and account and visit somewhere else.
b) The forum software has the mechanism in place to do this already.

I promise you I would say if i did.   Being new here, what stands out most to me after finally signing up, is the fact that your 'ethos' regarding this forum since its creation; is obviously changing now, since its isn't going to be "free and open" anymore.    I applaud you wanting to give something more back for your committed supporters however it does change the very nature of the forums, least of all the perception of it to users like myself.   Regardless, you're either "free and open" (your words not mine), or your not! 

[metalphreak]

The rest of the forum is still free and open. Free as in freedom of expression and free to access. A small section for supporters is just like having a clubhouse. Plenty of forums do this and you really don't miss out on much.


It also provides an area for the bigger contributors to chat with Dave about ideas/projects or other things as a serious discussion without it snowballing into a 20-page thread.

Dave provides content in the form of Youtube videos. The forums provide content in the form of user submissions. Each and every person makes this forum what it is. Dave has a very small role in this (in terms of posts) and I don't think a little wanky member's only section is going to hurt 

[EEVblog]

Being new here, what stands out most to me after finally signing up, is the fact that your 'ethos' regarding this forum since its creation; is obviously changing now, since its isn't going to be "free and open" anymore.    I applaud you wanting to give something more back for your committed supporters however it does change the very nature of the forums, least of all the perception of it to users like myself.   Regardless, you're either "free and open" (your words not mine), or your not!

I guess it is a matter of perception then.
The forum is still "free and open". I'm simply adding a section (for the technical reasons I gave) that I can announce and put some stuff that would never go on here anyway.
Presumably you would not have the same problem if I set up www.eevblogdonor.com or had an email list where I put such stuff?

[EEVblog]

The rest of the forum is still free and open. Free as in freedom of expression and free to access. A small section for supporters is just like having a clubhouse. Plenty of forums do this and you really don't miss out on much.

Yes, it's very common.
There would ultimately be little to no technical content in a private section that wouldn't otherwise go in the main forum. Because people usually want the largest possible audience for their post, so if they did post in the private section, it's not something they would ordinarily put in the open public forum. In that respect it is pretty much self regulating.
The section could even be announce only, if that's a better way to do it? 
Ultimately, it's just a mechanism for me to share info with the supporters and/or them to post things that I will see, instead of being lost in the noise of the (now quite large) large forum.

It also provides an area for the bigger contributors to chat with Dave about ideas/projects or other things as a serious discussion without it snowballing into a 20-page thread.
Dave provides content in the form of Youtube videos. The forums provide content in the form of user submissions. Each and every person makes this forum what it is. Dave has a very small role in this (in terms of posts) and I don't think a little wanky member's only section is going to hurt 

It is a bit wanky

[ddavidebor]

Maiby something under 1000 post is better... Maiby 500 or something like that.

[Corporate666]

I think it's a great idea, and I will contribute when I get a moment.

Folks, Dave is doing this as a business - and he deserves to be compensated for his time.  Right now, you can watch all his content for free, and can participate in the forum for free.  There aren't many colleges or schools that will let you sit in on their classes for free, or movie theaters that will let you watch for free. 

If people don't want to pay, they don't have to.  If people want to pay more to get more, why is that a bad thing?

[SeanB]

Correct corporate! It is Dave's to attempt to get a living out of however he chooses. Good that he actually can do so from the various methods he is using, and better for trying newer things or variants, as after all he has a metric to get feedback from it, which does work. Just how many of the suits in advertising ( whose very lives depends on getting numbers) would kill for the results Dave gets by himself, with a very close correlation to the reasons why something works, even if he does not know why but that it does work. This approach is a lot better than a scattershot approach where you hope something sticks.

[ISmellBurning]

Being new here, what stands out most to me after finally signing up, is the fact that your 'ethos' regarding this forum since its creation; is obviously changing now, since its isn't going to be "free and open" anymore.    I applaud you wanting to give something more back for your committed supporters however it does change the very nature of the forums, least of all the perception of it to users like myself.   Regardless, you're either "free and open" (your words not mine), or your not!

I guess it is a matter of perception then.
The forum is still "free and open". I'm simply adding a section (for the technical reasons I gave) that I can announce and put some stuff that would never go on here anyway.
Presumably you would not have the same problem if I set up www.eevblogdonor.com or had an email list where I put such stuff?

Dave, i don't 'have a problem' but was just commenting on how a simple change like that to the forums, imo will bring a major change to its perception (to the majority of visitors).   Having sections full of goodies that is visible yet inaccessible to some users just doesn't match the its description at the top of the page, and does highlight the 'I'm trying to generate revenue' feel.  :/

Email lists are good, but i don't think the format is great for what your proposing, carefully formatting mailouts is a pain in the ass too especially if they become popular / regular.   So i understand that a new forum section is it probably the simplest to implement since the user details are already available to it.

But how about just adding a sub domain to the eevblog with link script to your forum database that just daily scrapes the eligible users from your existing forum db.  Taking that approach does ensure that the EEVBlog maintains the same 'feel' that it always had while at the same time giving you the freedom to present whatever it is you end up doing for the eligible users in whatever format you like, without another domain etc.  Hey, have you reviewed your hosting agreement?  Do they have a limit on subdomains you can have? What about email accounts? You could offer a free blog with free subdomain.... let them worry about content.... 

They get something and if your hosting allows, it costs you nothing at least for quite a few eligible users. Of course i accept i have no idea just what kind of numbers you would be talking about.

My comment was NOT a critism, on the contrary it was a concern regarding how this site is perceived that was all.  I think I'll just go back to lurking....  :/

[Lightages]

OK, sorry folks for taking the cynical view of this new section when I saw it and the requirements to get in. I now understand that Dave's intent was not as I had thought. I can see the desire to give back to his community through some kind of "giving back" for contributions in money or posts. I think the threshold for posts is way too high and some people have contributed greatly with their first post here, with software or hacks or other things.

So yes I will now say yes for this new idea, but I worry about the perception it might present to those who have a tight budget and also have lower posts counts. I will refrain from voting on the pole because I don't know whether the forum or another place or method is a better idea.

[ivan747]

Those with over 1000 posts should automatically get access also.

Time for me (992 posts) to start posting bullshit. 

...not...

[Rufus]

Those with over 1000 posts should automatically get access also.

Time for me (992 posts) to start posting bullshit. 

...not...

To find out what I am missing I'll just have to start dumb drawn out threads about PC problems or assembler vs. C or something. My previous post about Kiriakos-GR was attempting to demonstrate that post count != useful contribution.

[grumpydoc]

Time for me (992 posts) to start posting bullshit.

Only 8 dollops of bovine droppings to go then

Sadly I need another 447 

More seriously - I'm not against a paid for section (Dave has to eat, after all) but there is a risk that expectations will be raised considerably and then be difficult to meet. I know that some people have already donated and so extra content would be a bonus for them but there will be more and more people that pay, then expect premium content. As Dave is not an infinitely stretchable resource there is a danger that he comes under pressure to produce premium content to the detriment of the forum at large.

I would consider setting the contribution lower so that it comes in under people's "don't mind whatever happens" threshold - for me $25 is above that. As to an actual amount I'd be willing to pay - perhaps £10 ($16 or so) but it's going to be different for everyone.

Dave could also consider having different amounts for people in different circumstances - eg "in education" could be much lower than "paid work in electronics" with perhaps "hobbyist" somewhere between. LWN run that type of scheme and I believe it works OK for them.

[ivan747]

Yes, the amazon affiliate thing actually brings in a fair bit of money. It's an easy way to support the blog if you happen to buy stuff through Amazon. I get 6% on each transaction, and that doesn't come out of your pocket.

I really recommend you update the store. It's been the same since I discovered the blog back when you were on episode ~120. Lotss of things have changed, the DS2000 series is an example. The AM-220 is surpassed by the AM-500 series and the FX-888 is discontinued.

Do you get benefits if we mention EEVBlog to our sponsors? I did when I got the DS1102E from Saelig, so I'm curious.

[alm]

To find out what I am missing I'll just have to start dumb drawn out threads about PC problems or assembler vs. C or something. My previous post about Kiriakos-GR was attempting to demonstrate that post count != useful contribution.

Sure, but there is at least some relation between post count and useful contributions. I'm sure we can all easily name some counter-examples, both positive and negative, but what other metric would be easy to apply (post count is probably even built into the forum software)? Counting the number of useful contributions without some sort of external input (eg. upvoting) is a non-trivial AI problem.

[Rerouter]

i myself hold noting against the section, mainly due to the post count entry requirement, in practice its very close to whirlpool forum's pool room, for that you need a certain amount of posts, to have been a member a full year and to have a positive rating from other users, inside it is more or less non public discussion and things that doesn't quite fit the rest of the forum, and there is never anything stopping a thread from being remade on the public side of it,

1000 posts seems a bit high but it makes it clear that you have stuck around as an active member, or that's how i see it,

[EEVblog]

Looks like something is going wrong with the subscription system in SMF. I am getting error messages and some accounts not activating.
"Paid subscription handler could not recover member ID" is the error message.
I think it might be that people are using different email addresses for their paypal account and their forum account, and the system can't verify them or something like that.
If you have paid and your account wasn't automatically upgraded to "Supporter" (see this under your name in the left of your posts) then please contact me with your forum name and I'll have to add you manually.

[EEVblog]

But how about just adding a sub domain to the eevblog with link script to your forum database that just daily scrapes the eligible users from your existing forum db.  Taking that approach does ensure that the EEVBlog maintains the same 'feel' that it always had while at the same time giving you the freedom to present whatever it is you end up doing for the eligible users in whatever format you like, without another domain etc.  Hey, have you reviewed your hosting agreement?  Do they have a limit on subdomains you can have? What about email accounts? You could offer a free blog with free subdomain.... let them worry about content.... 

a) I have no idea how to do that (the scraping database etc part). Subdomains is not the problem, I own the dedicated server, I can have 20 zillion subdomains if I want.
b) people already use the forum, so it is convenient for them to have it there.

[EEVblog]

OK, sorry folks for taking the cynical view of this new section when I saw it and the requirements to get in. I now understand that Dave's intent was not as I had thought. I can see the desire to give back to his community through some kind of "giving back" for contributions in money or posts. I think the threshold for posts is way too high and some people have contributed greatly with their first post here, with software or hacks or other things.

Sure, but were does that end? It would end up that half or more of the forum had access, so then what's the point? 

[EEVblog]

OK, sorry folks for taking the cynical view of this new section when I saw it and the requirements to get in. I now understand that Dave's intent was not as I had thought. I can see the desire to give back to his community through some kind of "giving back" for contributions in money or posts. I think the threshold for posts is way too high and some people have contributed greatly with their first post here, with software or hacks or other things.

Sure, but were does that end? It would end up that half or more of the forum had access, so then what's the point? 
I could of course have it ONLY for financial donors of course, or ONLY for the big contributors, but then I'll get complaints form both camps.

[EEVblog]

Sure, but there is at least some relation between post count and useful contributions. I'm sure we can all easily name some counter-examples, both positive and negative, but what other metric would be easy to apply (post count is probably even built into the forum software)? Counting the number of useful contributions without some sort of external input (eg. upvoting) is a non-trivial AI problem.

We have gone though this on the forum before, using the Karma system, and voting up posts etc. But it's agreed by most that this was a bad thing, so it was removed.
Yes, post cost is built into the forum software - reach X posts and you will be able to see the new board automatically.
I chose 1000 because there are currently 31 people over that limit, and it seemed like a good "exclusive" type number. If I lower that to say 250 (the current limit for "Frequent Contributor"), then that rises to 146 people. Lower it to 50 (Regular Contributor) and add another 424 people.
There are another 2162 people between 5 and 50 posts.

[EEVblog]

More seriously - I'm not against a paid for section (Dave has to eat, after all) but there is a risk that expectations will be raised considerably and then be difficult to meet. I know that some people have already donated and so extra content would be a bonus for them but there will be more and more people that pay, then expect premium content. As Dave is not an infinitely stretchable resource there is a danger that he comes under pressure to produce premium content to the detriment of the forum at large.

Make no mistake, this is NOT going to be "premium" content. Anyone who has already paid thinking, I will happily refund your money.
If I do end up producing "premium" (or separate paid) content I've talked about a bit, then no one will get it unless they pay for that content on it's own. It will likely be on a different web site that handles paid content.
If anything, any extra content for the supporters will be "sub par" content. Because as you say, to produce regular (edited) content a small number of paying "supporters" will definitely be to the detriment of everyone.

How about this, the ONLY benefit you can expect from your supporter contribution is 4 gold stars under your name on the forum, and access to the private forum section. That's it. Anything else will be an unexpected bonus.

I would consider setting the contribution lower so that it comes in under people's "don't mind whatever happens" threshold - for me $25 is above that. As to an actual amount I'd be willing to pay - perhaps £10 ($16 or so) but it's going to be different for everyone.

Yes, it will be different for everyone.
Lets look at the math:
If 1000 people sign up (and renew) at $25, that's $25K/year (minus paypal fees and say 30% tax). I would consider that a really upper level number. I don't realistically expect to achieve that many people "donating". And based on current donation numbers, certainly not.
So lets say it's 250 people instead. That's $6250/year (minus fees and taxes).
If I lowered that to say $15, then it's $3750/year.
Clearly I'm not going to get rich from this.

[BravoV]

Sure, but there is at least some relation between post count and useful contributions. I'm sure we can all easily name some counter-examples, both positive and negative, but what other metric would be easy to apply (post count is probably even built into the forum software)? Counting the number of useful contributions without some sort of external input (eg. upvoting) is a non-trivial AI problem.

Love the idea of voting from the forum members for those exceptionally members that have not reached the post counts but contributed tons of knowledges, their time & patience, proven of generously helping out noobs a lot.  Imho, these people are actually kind of like the blood of this forum, without them, the forum will be just a dry & boring place.

Just checked few names that have not reached 1000 PC, just a few came out from my brain :

- w2aew (Alan) , our resident scope's teacher 
- jahonen
- tekfan
- Lightages
- Rufus 
- Conrad Hoffman
- Jay_Diddy_B
- AcHmed99

... and a lot more ...

These are not an exhaustive list, and these names definitely get my vote.

[ddavidebor]

Sure, but there is at least some relation between post count and useful contributions. I'm sure we can all easily name some counter-examples, both positive and negative, but what other metric would be easy to apply (post count is probably even built into the forum software)? Counting the number of useful contributions without some sort of external input (eg. upvoting) is a non-trivial AI problem.

We have gone though this on the forum before, using the Karma system, and voting up posts etc. But it's agreed by most that this was a bad thing, so it was removed.
Yes, post cost is built into the forum software - reach X posts and you will be able to see the new board automatically.
I chose 1000 because there are currently 31 people over that limit, and it seemed like a good "exclusive" type number. If I lower that to say 250 (the current limit for "Frequent Contributor"), then that rises to 146 people. Lower it to 50 (Regular Contributor) and add another 424 people.
There are another 2162 people between 5 and 50 posts.

500?

[lemmegraphdat]

Free side and subscriber's side. Thing is that there is a hell of a lot of good stuff on the free side already. Premium content is gonna be a tough one.

[Dennis]

Dave,

Perhaps if you threw in a registered copy of "Dave CAD" for all paid supporters it would go down a bit easier

I can honestly see both sides, but I don't know why all the banter is going on about it.

If it is needed to keep the blog running then, "Que Sera, Sera"

[EEVblog]

Thing is that there is a hell of a lot of good stuff on the free side already. Premium content is gonna be a tough one.

Yes, that's why I've been putting it off for so long 
I'm doing ok financially at present, so no pressing need to do premium paid content.
If I suddenly lost a lot of advertisers and the forum sponsor, then I'd have no choice but to jump on it, or go back and get a real job.

[EEVblog]

Perhaps if you threw in a registered copy of "Dave CAD" for all paid supporters it would go down a bit easier

I planned to get some DaveCAD pads printed at one stage!

[ivan747]

Perhaps if you threw in a registered copy of "Dave CAD" for all paid supporters it would go down a bit easier

I planned to get some DaveCAD pads printed at one stage!

If you made like an A4 sized notepad with the classic schematic frame and DaveCAD on it, it would be awesome. Just imagine a video with Dave drawing stuff on a yellow sheet of paper with the DaveCAD "logo" printed on it.

[Corporate666]

I am fully in support of additional paid content if Dave decides to go that way.  I don't believe it would (or need to) take anything away from the free side.  It's sort of like having a job, then getting a second part time job.  As long as you perform your main job as agreed, what business is it of theirs if you are moonlighting at night?

In this case, if Dave decided to do some additional paid stuff (not sure what it would be), I would have no problem with it.  There are other perks that could be afforded to paid supporters too - for example, put up a poll in the paid section and let supporters vote on what the next "Fundamental Friday" topic will be.  Does nothing to harm the free members, but gives a tiny amount of extra benefit to payers.

Maybe there is even some opportunity to have site sponsors offer additional goodies, like "extra 5% off any Rigol scope at ABC Co, for EEVBlog Supporters".

Another possible goodie might be to let supporters have avatars, or allow supporters to plug their businesses/websites in their signature (i.e. make signatures only available to supporters).

[nuhamind2]

A t-shirt that say "I support EEVBLOG" 

[EEVblog]

All good ideas Corporate666. Takes nothing away form using the forum, but adds a few little bells and whistles for the supporters.

[Mechatrommer]

sorry i skipped page 3-5. but dave, have you considered monthly donator? even as punny as $1/mth. i think weight should be put more on it since it is more "long term" instead of one-time $25, which is more temporary and short-term.

[EEVblog]

If you made like an A4 sized notepad with the classic schematic frame and DaveCAD on it, it would be awesome. Just imagine a video with Dave drawing stuff on a yellow sheet of paper with the DaveCAD "logo" printed on it.

It would have to be just for my own use, becase I costed it out, and its just not economical to sell them. Postage would cost more than the pad, and paper is heavy. Then if I used it, I'd get a constant flood of email asking for one.

[pickle9000]

Dave, You should do a pdf for the "Official DaveCAD" paper that way people could print their own.

[ddavidebor]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiceeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[glatocha]

Generally I would advise everybody to make some donations. He is doing it for us. And we like it. Any electronic book costs ~100$. I think you get a lot more information here.

Keeping in mind that Dave will not do any - for supporters only - video. I like the idea of special section. If it push people more to the donations. It is ok for me.

I was thinking, maybe Dave can publish here some of his projects. Some of his previous publications (if copyrights allow).

[GeoffS]

Perhaps any future Competitions could be restricted to members who qualify for the Supporters Section?

Much better odds on winning which might be an incentive for others to sign up.

[mark5009]

Hi, Dave.

I am concerned about the information apartheid aspects of the "special section".  There will be the idea of a walled garden where secret matters are discussed between the few.  I know that is not what you are after but it will remain a fact.  Richard Stallman is right when he keeps rabbiting on about information should be free.

Much better is GeoffS's suggestion re the competitions.  Want something for nother?  Then be prepared to pay for it!  That is cool thinking.

  .. mark.

[ve7xen]

I am concerned about the information apartheid aspects of the "special section".  There will be the idea of a walled garden where secret matters are discussed between the few.  I know that is not what you are after but it will remain a fact.  Richard Stallman is right when he keeps rabbiting on about information should be free.

This is my thought as well. Segregating the community does not do it a service.

If this new forum is just a locked forum for Dave to announce and discuss contests/perks for donators I'd be all for it. However if it allows general posting I am opposed. The community benefits from everyone having equal access to each other.

[millerb]

From what I've seen on other forums I visit, having areas on the board that require high post counts to access just encourages some folks to post crap until they're in the club.

[jucole]

I am concerned about the information apartheid aspects of the "special section".  There will be the idea of a walled garden where secret matters are discussed between the few.  I know that is not what you are after but it will remain a fact.  Richard Stallman is right when he keeps rabbiting on about information should be free.

This is my thought as well. Segregating the community does not do it a service.

If this new forum is just a locked forum for Dave to announce and discuss contests/perks for donators I'd be all for it. However if it allows general posting I am opposed.

If you read the "About" page on the EEVBlog home page it states...

If you want my advice on something then ask in the EEVblog Forum, ...  That’s what the forum is for, it’s an awesome resource, use it!

So if having a small supporters section bothers you that much, seriously, you're not working on enough widgets! ;-)

[brabus]

A secret area in the forum will always be a pretext for endless whining. 

To give something back to major contributors, I would prefer a special discount on the shop, and/or the exclusivity in joining luck-based contests or giveaways. 

For any other skill-based contest, obviously I would put no restriction.

[madires]

From what I've seen on other forums I visit, having areas on the board that require high post counts to access just encourages some folks to post crap until they're in the club.

Unfortunately there's no bullet prove automated system, so you have to find a compromise. Instead of automatically promoting an user with 1000 posts the user could be suggested (automatically by 1000 posts) for promoting and a board would consider the quality of the posts and decide to promote the user or not.

[jancumps]

I've seen it work well on other fora. Supporters only future is sometimes being allowed to barter/buy/sell in a dedicated session or get discounts from a site sponsor.
I don't mind at all if there is a part of the activity happening where I can't participate. If it is interesting enough, it might convince me to support.

And there will always be enough usual content. If that dries up, the community disappears.

[brabus]

(...) on other fora. (...)

OT MODE ON

Finally someone treats Latin right! 

OT MODE OFF

I also quote madires; Dave can choose manually who to add to the "golden list", basing on nr. of posts, donations, forum behavior, etc.
Maybe some statistics can help him a bit, just to find out candidates.