Author Topic: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.  (Read 4083 times)

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Offline RJSVTopic starter

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Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« on: September 25, 2023, 12:08:24 am »
Hello there, hope all readers doing well today.
   I'm noticing some conflict emerging, partly due to it being election season, already started this month in U.S.
Both major US parties have officially begun campaigns this month (Sept. 2023), 14 months before scheduled elections.
Likely there will be more things, coming out of the woodwork, as they say.
Doing some thinking, but I can't come up with any good suggestions, or EEVBLOG forum rule changes.

   My sympathy to the moderators, here; likely only going to get worse, for a bit of time.
Some post, in (locked) thread, above did mention this dynamic, coming whether ready or not.

   Maybe a good start, would be to skip the trashing, of the thread originators, while simultaneously LOCKING their thread.

   (I should have named this 'LOCK THIS ONE' provocative style, as sarcasm employed many years ago, (by radical author Abbe Hoffman, 1968 book 'STEAL THIS BOOK!'. ).
 

Offline magic

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2023, 06:21:17 am »
Maybe a good start, would be to skip the trashing, of the thread originators, while simultaneously LOCKING their thread.
Yeah, why not, let 'em post whatever they want and then lock others from responding.

For a good start I would ban the OP on the spot, he's clearly up to no good :box:
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2023, 07:42:37 am »
I wouldn't worry. Dave seems to have been a bit more relaxed about this recently.

Many things are political: regulations which affect product design/standards, big tech censorship, diversity, inclusivity and equity training etc.

Normally a thread will either run its course, or will get locked if it gets out of hand. I don't see the problem.

 
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Offline RJSVTopic starter

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2023, 03:36:44 pm »
   Thanks for replies.  I figure, for now, if I can't suggest a better way, managing the traffic flow, can least express the desire for ALL those active to obtain some positive reinforcement.

   Some participants here are experiencing some bewildering trends, that, as my title suggests, that often involves technology, and some very blatent misuse / ignorance.  You could ask; What groups had the most skepticism when covid outbreak started impacting (businesses) ?
Answer to that is that the folks who have lived through other similar situations, being talked down to, by a fake 'science expert'.

My own case, of massive frustration in America, is somewhat impacted / worsened by those closest to me;  Roommates and neighbors constantly obsessed with their hate-speech TV channels blaring the most juvenile, gossipy junk,  often termed as 'Tsnami of lies'.  That's part of why EEVBLOG has to moderate, a task harder than it looks, I bet!
Certainly, we should have a moderator function 'fairly', skipping the obvious posts that 'seem' to comply with forum rules.
Case in point:
   'Elon Musk is a nice chap'.   Talk about evading the rules ! (In spirit).

 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2023, 04:04:42 pm »
There are millions of sites oriented toward politics, we don't need to add EEVBlog to the list.  Unless a thread touches directly on electronics (and I mean DIRECTLY) dump it and ban the author.  If threads start out properly and devolve into politics, lock it as soon as possible and note the contributor that first
drove it off the rails.  A couple of these diversions and ban the contributor.

Let's try to keep EEVBlog 'politics free'.  Yes, I know I would have been banned years ago...

It's going to get ugly over the next 16 months or so (and possibly beyond), let's don't port it to
EEVBlog.
 
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Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2023, 04:49:01 pm »
OK!!!   Good idea to end the contentiousness, before it even starts.   
Sounds like pre crime enforcement.......  Wait, wasn't that in a sci fi movie??

I have a better idea, for those in the US, E mail me and I will tell you how to vote and what to think.   
That way nobody gets hurt publicly on the forum.  That way of doing things also puts less stress on the government, since they will not have to tell anyone what to do since everyone will be listening to me.

HA!!!
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2023, 05:25:23 pm »
There are plenty of sites, networks and forums for political kooks and other nuts.
This is one of the few quality forums for EEs.
Let's keep it that way.
 
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Offline themadhippy

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2023, 05:41:13 pm »
No matter who you vote for the government always gets in.
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2023, 07:51:00 pm »
The political forums I've seen tend to have a strong bias and have plenty of crackpots. I find it interesting when the discussion turns political here, because I get to hear from those who live in the real world and not just what the mainstream media pump out.
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2023, 08:51:34 pm »
I find it interesting when the discussion turns political here, because I get to hear from those who live in the real world and not just what the mainstream media pump out.
Which "real world?" Oceania? Greenland? Or just the UK (and perhaps the US)?
And which "mainstream media?" Le Soir? Sueddeutsche Zeitung? The Sun? Fox News?

Don't even go there. Political navel-gazing brings nothing to this forum. We're engineers.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2023, 08:56:24 pm »
I find it interesting when the discussion turns political here, because I get to hear from those who live in the real world and not just what the mainstream media pump out.
Which "real world?" Oceania? Greenland? Or just the UK (and perhaps the US)?
It's good to hear opinions from around the world.
Quote
And which "mainstream media?" Le Soir? Sueddeutsche Zeitung? The Sun? Fox News?
Yes, real people. Most of the political views I get exposed to come from the BBC, CNN, Fox News, GB News, The Telegraph, Guardian etc.

Quote
Don't even go there. Political navel-gazing brings nothing to this forum. We're engineers.
You're entitled to your opinion, as am and I disagree. I've found many of the political topics here interesting, because I get different perspectives.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2023, 09:10:33 pm »
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion (including on pronouns), but in engineering and science we tend to consider facts.
 
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Offline Benta

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2023, 09:15:35 pm »
You're entitled to your opinion, as am and I disagree. I've found many of the political topics here interesting, because I get different perspectives.

Please see:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/

Pay attention to point #5.
Take up the discussion with the forum owner, if you wish.
Good luck.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2023, 09:17:42 pm by Benta »
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2023, 09:21:11 pm »
You're entitled to your opinion, as am and I disagree. I've found many of the political topics here interesting, because I get different perspectives.

Please see:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/

Pay attention to point #5.
Take up the discussion with the forum owner, if you wish.
Good luck.
That doesn't matter. It's not strictly enforced, which I think is great. Dave has made plenty of political posts, which is fine, because occasionally politics gets into work. It's inevitable.

If you feel it's too much, press the report button, then ignore the thread and don't post in it.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2023, 09:21:34 pm »
Opinion and facts:
As an example of a present-day controversy, consider the increase in the Earth's surface temperature over, say, the past century.
The scientific data show a clear trend of increasing temperature, and scientists have developed models that can be compared with future temperature trends and power usage, along with possible effects on agriculture, etc.
Scientists and engineers can suggest possible methods for improving the future trends.
Engineers can calculate the costs and benefits, along with practicability, of possible methods.
The political process (whatever you may think about it) will determine what (if anything) is actually done about it.
 
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Online Bud

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2023, 09:34:06 pm »
Both engineers and polititians can do their calculations and make laws until the cows come home. Back millions years ago when the ice cap formed and dinosaurs died there was no engineers and polititians. As there was no engineers and polititians before that happened. Still, that happened. Think about it.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2023, 09:39:54 pm »
Opinion and facts:
As an example of a present-day controversy, consider the increase in the Earth's surface temperature over, say, the past century.
The scientific data show a clear trend of increasing temperature, and scientists have developed models that can be compared with future temperature trends and power usage, along with possible effects on agriculture, etc.
Scientists and engineers can suggest possible methods for improving the future trends.
Engineers can calculate the costs and benefits, along with practicability, of possible methods.
The political process (whatever you may think about it) will determine what (if anything) is actually done about it.
Data can be open to interpretation, there's a huge level of uncertainty and risk vs benefit is often subjective. More often than not we have to choose the least worst option, but it's difficult to know what that is. People make this more difficult because individuals make decisions which benefit them personally and everyone has biases. Censorship is a big problem. If we're not allowed to debate ideas, which many consider to be bad, then how do we know they're really bad? Just because there's a consensus, it doesn't mean it's right.

Government policies have unpredictable results, because how people respond is often too complex to predict, especially when it comes to economics. For example, raising taxes, doesn't necessarily result in increase income, as people avoid paying them and too higher tax burden hampers the economy.

Some people believe it's always better for the government to intervene, whilst others think it's better to keep state interference to an absolute minimum. Full disclosure: I tend to lean towards the latter philosophy.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2023, 10:02:12 pm »
Yes they overlap.
No the politics themselves rarely need to be discussed, yet people always feel the need to dump their opinions here which are not wanted.


Data can be open to interpretation, there's a huge level of uncertainty and risk vs benefit is often subjective. More often than not we have to choose the least worst option, but it's difficult to know what that is. People make this more difficult because individuals make decisions which benefit them personally and everyone has biases. Censorship is a big problem. If we're not allowed to debate ideas, which many consider to be bad, then how do we know they're really bad? Just because there's a consensus, it doesn't mean it's right.

Then discuss the data and provide evidence or alternate data. For sure consensus is not always right, but thats not the issue here.

Quote
Government policies have unpredictable results, because how people respond is often too complex to predict, especially when it comes to economics. For example, raising taxes, doesn't necessarily result in increase income, as people avoid paying them and too higher tax burden hampers the economy.

Some people believe it's always better for the government to intervene, whilst others think it's better to keep state interference to an absolute minimum. Full disclosure: I tend to lean towards the latter philosophy.

Now you've left the relevance of this forum and are discussing political opinions which many of us do not want here. Best kept to yourself.
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 
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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2023, 10:45:55 pm »
If it is to do with the one I started yesterday about an article that I thought was true I am sorry about that it was a mistake and my fault.

I got taken in believing it but it turned out to be fake/propaganda maybe? as Simon said it was to do with frightening people into voting for a political party and spreading it around. I was wondering how they'd go about doing such a thing in a technical sense (the point of the thread in question) but there won't be one as I see they were not being serious

I did more checking later to find it something to do with a bill that targeted at landlords but they did a uturn on that yesterday. Joke: That one would be about showing "how reasonable they are." Spot on as Simon put it.

The author who wrote the article was on a political newspaper, as a "political correspondence" in unclear faint front, near his name, according to his Linkedin profile he wrote for others newspapers that are too of the same political party. The article he wrote was about other members of the same party in question. I wasn't thinking of them and the influence they had over the article when I posted. I was wondering how they could technical and electronically make their plan work but as Simon sad it was garbage there to scare people into thinking they were good and now they did a uturn on it.

I am relieved it is not true but still feel ashamed of myself by getting taken in by it thinking it was real and spreading it here where they gain attention. I thought the newspaper in question was an established respectable one but how wrong could I be.

Next time I will cross check to see, if the article has political influence with the newspaper itself and the author/journalist and verify other facts about it.

Sorry about that again.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2023, 11:02:55 pm by MrMobodies »
 
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Offline RJSVTopic starter

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2023, 11:50:07 pm »
   Note for MrMobodies:
   I wouldn't think you should tear yourself up, about a little glitch.

   For what it's worth, I've been trying to set this thread up in a 'Metadata' sense, where (mostly) any actual party, or even the country is discussed free of names or party affiliations.  Funny thing, you've just mentioned a situation that relates to the 'metadata' here:  Mention was made, perhaps casually, of the 'Political party, of Such & Such Newspaper'.

   Interesting (and perplexing) thing to say.  My guess is that the Newspaper Enterprise, itself, would never say that.  Indeed the opposite, as the usual claim is of being 'unbiased', and, ironically, claiming that the 'other side' is the one that is completely (and unredeemably) biased, politically.  In a generic sense, we could start calling (the political parties)
the Apple Party vs. the Fig Party,  and then proceed with the discussion, using a more indirect language.  Problem is still that (I bet) the whole of the readers is usually going to include some individuals that want to violate forum rules concerning  refraining from attacking / confronting other forum participants.

   It's important, at least in my own evaluation of all this, important to not forget the denial that occurs, when someone points out the obvious, bias, or worse, when it's stated without any sense of uncertainty.

Somebody says 'Trust me, not him',  well that's a red flag right there.
   I don't care if that's the 'Apple' party, or the 'Martian' party, that's a red flag right there.

   Metadata can suggest results like 'The Apple Party uses unpaid volunteers, mostly.'
That maybe allows discussion, while bypassing offending anyone.  In theory.
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2023, 07:21:35 am »
Yes they overlap.
No the politics themselves rarely need to be discussed, yet people always feel the need to dump their opinions here which are not wanted.


Data can be open to interpretation, there's a huge level of uncertainty and risk vs benefit is often subjective. More often than not we have to choose the least worst option, but it's difficult to know what that is. People make this more difficult because individuals make decisions which benefit them personally and everyone has biases. Censorship is a big problem. If we're not allowed to debate ideas, which many consider to be bad, then how do we know they're really bad? Just because there's a consensus, it doesn't mean it's right.

Then discuss the data and provide evidence or alternate data. For sure consensus is not always right, but thats not the issue here.
An interesting thing I've learned recently, that data from a complex, unpredictable system, is often riddled with confounding factors. Quite often those who conducted the study have an alteriour motive, even if there's no blatent conflict of interest. Universities depend on funding from the government and bussiness, which introduces biases.

Quote
Quote
Government policies have unpredictable results, because how people respond is often too complex to predict, especially when it comes to economics. For example, raising taxes, doesn't necessarily result in increase income, as people avoid paying them and too higher tax burden hampers the economy.

Some people believe it's always better for the government to intervene, whilst others think it's better to keep state interference to an absolute minimum. Full disclosure: I tend to lean towards the latter philosophy.

Now you've left the relevance of this forum and are discussing political opinions which many of us do not want here. Best kept to yourself.
I dissagree. Econnomics and governmnt are important when designing products, which have to be profitable and comply with regulations.

If you dissagree, you don't have to read and reply. Click the report button, if you feel that strongly.
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2023, 07:56:16 am »
the inductors & capacitors have had controversy.
earth's surface temperature has always been changing like a storm in a teacup.
not all facts are true. anybody can have an opinion about anything as most science is subject to new ideas.
I will be unplugging my TV antenna for the next year until the political storm is over.
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2023, 08:34:45 am »
World had estimated 7,8- 7,9 billion people (10E9) in 2021. USA had a 330 millions at the time.

Yet apparently many USA  citizens think that the rest of 7,5 billion people in the world care for which idiot from a political cesspool of idiots they call politicians in USA will be elected in next "elections".
Fascinating...
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2023, 08:56:08 am »
One man's objective facts are another man's politics. And vice versa.

That is true everywhere. Including this board.

If there is a general consensus on an issue then it is not politics.

If there is disagreement then it is politics.

What is the settled truth in one venue will be controversial or even false in another venue.

What bothers me is when my truth is censored while contrary opinions are considered the truth and allowed.

Still, let me make it very clear that I am very anticyclonic and will not compromise on that.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline magic

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Re: Technical things overlap the political topics, unfortunately.
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2023, 01:46:25 pm »
Yet apparently many USA  citizens think that the rest of 7,5 billion people in the world care for which idiot from a political cesspool of idiots they call politicians in USA will be elected in next "elections".
Fascinating...
Fascinating indeed, America is what you get when you ass-ume that people are equal and capable of thinking for themselves.
Most of them probably don't even know that there is over 7 billion people outside their reality distortion bubble :-DD
 
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