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| Telsa remotely disables Auto-Pilot on used car it sold at its own auction ... |
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| SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 09, 2020, 11:15:09 pm --- --- Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 09, 2020, 10:53:35 pm ---Keep in mind a license is NOT ownership. It's just a limited right, under a number of clauses, to use something. Pretty different. --- End quote --- The point is that Tesla is selling licences, not whether they can legally do this or not. --- End quote --- Everybody is selling licenses these days. I don't see the link with ownership. A license is again NOT ownership. You don't "own" a license. You're granted one, with contractual clauses. True ownership usually doesn't have any clause; once you own something, it's yours forever until you pass ownership to someone else. In that respect, a license is closer to renting than to ownership. Is licensing a proper model for cars, and for hardware devices in general? Probably not. Is it legal? So far, I think so. It's just a contract. You accept it or you don't. If you buy a Tesla car with some parts that are licensed to you (which means you don't "own" those parts), you are warned when you sign. Of course if those licensed parts are *essential* to the use of the bought item, then you could reasonably sue if you stop being licensed for any reason. But if those parts are "accessories", then I don't think you'd really have any ground to sue. You just accept it when you sign. And in the case of resold used cars, it's the responsibility of the reseller to warn you that some licensed parts are or are not transferable. So for the OP's case, there is likely ground to sue - probably for wrong description of the good. Of course it's a landmine. Note that we're mainly talking about (embedded) software here, but with electric cars, for the time being, you will NEVER be sure you can keep using the car for as long as you keep maintaining it. Batteries are the first culprit. You're totally tied to the vendor. When you batteries die, if the vendor doesn't exist anymore, you're basically screwed, all the more that there is no standard that I know of so far, so you can't just replace them with equivalent parts. If electric vehicles are getting more pervasive, this is likely to change - we'll probably start seeing standards and laws to protect the consumers - but for now, you definitely never really OWN an electric car in the true sense. You just own the hardware of the car (usually except the batteries), and nothing much else. So whether this is for the batteries or for software licensing reasons, the car can just eventually become a pile of dead shit - even if it's in perfect condition. |
| wraper:
--- Quote from: tooki on February 10, 2020, 02:29:09 pm ---I guess it escaped your notice that Teslas are some of the very fastest street-legal cars in existence (as in acceleration, not maximum speed)? --- End quote --- Model 3 performance can do 0-60 mph (0-95.5 kmh) in <3 seconds (3.2 advertised), top speed 162 mph (261 km/h). Long range AWD 0-60 mph in 3.9s, top speed 233 kmh. Standard Range Plus (which is the cheapest) 0-60 mph in 5.3s, top speed 225kmh They were a bit less quick a year ago, but since then there were 2 software updates each increasing performance a bit. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: grumpydoc on February 10, 2020, 01:14:27 pm --- --- Quote from: Brent88 on February 09, 2020, 01:07:51 am ---i rather not have to pay a 3rd party it's still WAY efficient time wise to have your own and ownership cost less... every 10,000 miles in a uber would cost about $30,000 it cost me about $2800 including,maintenance,fuel,insurance and reg.. owning a car is still cheaper :-// --- End quote --- You are assuming that the cost would be similar to modern day Uber - where most of the cost is paying the driver, rather than the actual cost of the journey. Also you are forgetting depreciation - and 28c a mile seems low for running costs TBH, though some of that might be that you guys still pay a ludicrously low price for gas. --- End quote --- 28ct per mile (16 euroct / km) is not out of the ordinary. I'm around the 17euroct to 18euroct /km mark myself. It all comes to buying a car which is cheap to maintain (reliable engine and cheap suspension parts). --- Quote ---Finally fewer and fewer people actually own cars anyway, financing has moved towards contract hire deals where you never own the vehicle --- End quote --- Better put some numbers on this. I think this shift is caused by people who would previously 'buy' a car and borrow the money from the car dealer. Since the credit-crunch rules for loans have become much stricter so it is likely car dealers don't want the hassle of handling credit applications. A private lease construction is subject to much less rules. |
| sokoloff:
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 08, 2020, 11:55:14 am --- --- Quote from: grumpydoc on February 07, 2020, 09:07:24 pm ---Anyway, give it 25 years or so and no-one will own a car; there will be a fleet of self-driving cars and you you summon one for the individual journey that you wish to make. Way more efficient than everyone owning a car (or more than one) and it being parked, unused, 95% of the time. --- End quote --- Offtopic: I doubt that will happen. Owning a (second hand) car which doesn't depreciate like crazy will always be cheaper to own even if it sits idle 95% of the time instead of renting. --- End quote --- Agreed. Our cars spend probably 97.5% of the time idle (avg 6K miles per year on one and 4K mi/yr on the other). One is a 2005 Honda bought in 2012. For 40K miles, we’ve put about $4K in gas, $300 in oil changes, $1200 in outsourced repairs, $500 in tires, $400 in parts for DIY repairs, paid $4K in insurance, paid a few hundred for registrations and inspections, and it’s probably worth $4K less than we paid. 40K miles around $15K in expenses. $0.37/mi all in. No way are we going to use Uber every time we need to go somewhere, even if it was only $0.40/mi, let alone a significant multiple of that! |
| james_s:
I like owning a car because it's a toy I can tinker with, fix it up, customize it to my liking, I want to own things, I don't rent anything. That said, I struggle to think of any car made in the last 15 years that I would want if it were offered to me for free. The last 10 years especially, they seem to be in a race to design the most hideously ugly thing possible while also making it boring to drive. Modern cars just have no soul, they're all designed according to the same algorithms and they're all the same. |
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