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| Telsa remotely disables Auto-Pilot on used car it sold at its own auction ... |
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| tooki:
As I understood it, Tesla represented it at auction as possessing those options, and the dealer bought it on the basis of it including them, and then sold it to the consumer on the same basis. Assuming that's accurate, Tesla doesn't have a legal foot to stand on, I suspect. You're totally right that Tesla can do whatever they want with it while it's under their ownership, but if they themselves sell it with the claim that it includes the options, then removing them after the sale is, plain and simply, wrong. |
| bdunham7:
--- Quote from: tooki on February 10, 2020, 06:08:21 pm ---As I understood it, Tesla represented it at auction as possessing those options, --- End quote --- I'm sure that is what the dealer wants people to assume, but I've seen no evidence of that so far. I would think if they had that evidence, they'd be showing it. |
| donotdespisethesnake:
--- Quote from: tooki on February 10, 2020, 06:08:21 pm ---As I understood it, Tesla represented it at auction as possessing those options, and the dealer bought it on the basis of it including them, --- End quote --- I think neither the dealer nor second customer have claimed that. What the dealer claimed is that Autopilot was "working" when he took possession, but stopped working before final delivery to customer. The dealer and customer both observed AP was NOT working, but the dealer managed to persuade him it was "just a glitch" (yeah right) despite the dealer knowing that Tesla can and do withdraw features after sale. The problem is compounded by the habit of Tesla providing free trials of AP which are supposed to last for a month, then if you don't purchase the feature disappears. Another issue is Tesla hate dealers, and won't let them login and check what options the car has, only a registered end user can do that. What we don't have is proof of what Tesla actually sold at auction to the dealer. Normally stuff at auction is sold "as seen", but how do you tell if AP should be there or not, or is a limited free trial? |
| Mr. Scram:
That's the problem in a nutshell isn't it? "Sold as seen" no longer holds value when matters can be changed after the fact. |
| Mr. Scram:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 10, 2020, 03:53:03 pm ---Everybody is selling licenses these days. I don't see the link with ownership. A license is again NOT ownership. You don't "own" a license. You're granted one, with contractual clauses. True ownership usually doesn't have any clause; once you own something, it's yours forever until you pass ownership to someone else. In that respect, a license is closer to renting than to ownership. Is licensing a proper model for cars, and for hardware devices in general? Probably not. Is it legal? So far, I think so. It's just a contract. You accept it or you don't. If you buy a Tesla car with some parts that are licensed to you (which means you don't "own" those parts), you are warned when you sign. Of course if those licensed parts are *essential* to the use of the bought item, then you could reasonably sue if you stop being licensed for any reason. But if those parts are "accessories", then I don't think you'd really have any ground to sue. You just accept it when you sign. And in the case of resold used cars, it's the responsibility of the reseller to warn you that some licensed parts are or are not transferable. So for the OP's case, there is likely ground to sue - probably for wrong description of the good. Of course it's a landmine. Note that we're mainly talking about (embedded) software here, but with electric cars, for the time being, you will NEVER be sure you can keep using the car for as long as you keep maintaining it. Batteries are the first culprit. You're totally tied to the vendor. When you batteries die, if the vendor doesn't exist anymore, you're basically screwed, all the more that there is no standard that I know of so far, so you can't just replace them with equivalent parts. If electric vehicles are getting more pervasive, this is likely to change - we'll probably start seeing standards and laws to protect the consumers - but for now, you definitely never really OWN an electric car in the true sense. You just own the hardware of the car (usually except the batteries), and nothing much else. So whether this is for the batteries or for software licensing reasons, the car can just eventually become a pile of dead shit - even if it's in perfect condition. --- End quote --- Everybody selling licences and not seeing the link with ownership is exactly the issue. You pay as if you'd buy it but without actually buying it. |
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