Tesla Cybertruck

[nctnico]

It has been many decades with very little fresh innovation in automotive.

True, but then again: what can you actually innovate where it comes to cars? Aerodynamics & safety have a single optimum shape so all cars look alike nowadays. On top of that, people gotten afraid of colors so all cars are black, grey or white. Sure, new things like touchscreens have been tried but failed. Radios got rotating knobs for the volume control back after up/down buttons where the 'hype du jour' for a few years in the early 2000s. At some point a product is as good as it gets. After all, what can you improve on a hammer?

[SiliconWizard]

Hm.. A "recall" that's just an OTA update to add extra annoyances to the cars interface just to account for a small percentage of the population that's too stupid to use autopilot correctly without it.

Can't say I agree with this nanny state BS.

If a person cannot understand the simple concept that they are fully responsible for everything the car does while on autopilot then they probably shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

A great step forward would be not to call it "autopilot"!

Well, "autopilot" may sound like it means "autonomous" for typical car drivers, but the word has been used in the transportation industry in other types of vehicles for a long time with not much ambiguity. It never meant that the pilot was not responsible and that the autopilot could be left on unattended. So the same should be for cars. But of course, marketing doesn't like that.

It should just be an extension of what's been around for several decades already, like speed regulators/"cruise control". Problem being that the more is automated, and the less the driver will be sollicited, so the less they'll be alert. The reason it works in professional transportation is that pilots are doing their job, they are not just "consumers" of a vehicle. Also, the fact they are rarely alone helps - there are always colleagues around if one person fails.

[Siwastaja]

A great step forward would be not to call it "autopilot"!

I think the term is fine. Tesla's system is already more capable, relatively speaking, than what is classically meant by an "autopilot". (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot if unfamiliar with the term.) However, Tesla has clearly failed to communicate (quite obviously on purpose) what they have is not autonomous driving or even a prototype of it; "unofficially" overselling the feature is the problem, not the name which is really the most honest part of it IMHO.

True, but then again: what can you actually innovate where it comes to cars? Aerodynamics & safety have a single optimum shape so all cars look alike nowadays. On top of that, people gotten afraid of colors so all cars are black, grey or white. Sure, new things like touchscreens have been tried but failed. Radios got rotating knobs for the volume control back after up/down buttons where the 'hype du jour' for a few years in the early 2000s. At some point a product is as good as it gets. After all, what can you improve on a hammer?

There is more than a single dimension "objectively good" - "objectively bad". Cars appeal to emotions, and just doing something differently enough has value in itself. Sure, it's not for the majority, and that's fine. It's good to have choices. Another point is, thinking that we are at an optimum is prone to go wrong. Experimentation is needed to see what happens.

Optimizations often get stuck in local minimum we don't understand being local, unless we do random and sometimes weird perturbations. For example: despite being micro-optimized for aerodynamics, modern cars have worse aerodynamics than 20 years ago. And I don't mean the drag coefficient, that's only half of the equation; it has been optimized from decent to even better during last 30 years. But frontal area is the other half and it has been increasing with the SUV bullshit. Even non-SUVs have been turning into half-SUVs. And as always, I like having options, so SUVs, too, but I don't like every car being SUV-ish. Tesla Model3 is a fresh exception to this trend, which is also why it gets so excellent energy consumption numbers.

[Psi]

It never meant that the pilot was not responsible and that the autopilot could be left on unattended.

I hate to say it, but the movie 'Airplane' is probably to blame for setting up an incorrect definition for the word autopilot long ago. Some people obviously took it seriously 

[vk6zgo]

Hm.. A "recall" that's just an OTA update to add extra annoyances to the cars interface just to account for a small percentage of the population that's too stupid to use autopilot correctly without it.

Can't say I agree with this nanny state BS.

If a person cannot understand the simple concept that they are fully responsible for everything the car does while on autopilot then they probably shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

A great step forward would be not to call it "autopilot"!

Well, "autopilot" may sound like it means "autonomous" for typical car drivers, but the word has been used in the transportation industry in other types of vehicles for a long time with not much ambiguity. It never meant that the pilot was not responsible and that the autopilot could be left on unattended. So the same should be for cars. But of course, marketing doesn't like that.

It should just be an extension of what's been around for several decades already, like speed regulators/"cruise control". Problem being that the more is automated, and the less the driver will be sollicited, so the less they'll be alert. The reason it works in professional transportation is that pilots are doing their job, they are not just "consumers" of a vehicle. Also, the fact they are rarely alone helps - there are always colleagues around if one person fails.

The original autopilots used of things like DC3s were quite limited, but modern ones are quite a lot more capable.
Also, in the public mind, there is probably a lot of blurring between them & Automatic Landing Systems & the like.
A more descriptive name for what the Tesla ones do (& is used by other manufacturers) is "Driver Assist".

[mendip_discovery]

Considering that becuase of America cars with cruise control had to come with a warning that you must remain in your seat, I remeber talked of a person putting cruise on and going to the back to make food and crashed as the assumed it would take care of that but I can't be sure that isnt just a dig at the American culture.

So I am surprised that Tesla has been allowed to use the term based on the common interpretation of it. But I have never looked at the manuals to see what it says. Though I see many videos of people going on about the self driving nature of these cars and that doesn't help with the muddy waters we are already in.

[Siwastaja]

descriptive name for what the Tesla ones do (& is used by other manufacturers) is "Driver Assist".

Fair enough, but "driver assist" is something every manufacturer has and means stuff like adaptive cruise control and maybe keep-on-the-lane (no overtaking or anything). What Tesla has is in awkward position: significantly more advanced than most "driver assist" systems, but still way too far from true autonomous driving. It's hard for the marketing folks to honestly sell without either under- or overselling it.

[MT]

A great step forward would be not to call it "autopilot"!

I think the term is fine. Tesla's system is already more capable, relatively speaking, than what is classically meant by an "autopilot". (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot if unfamiliar with the term.) However, Tesla has clearly failed to communicate (quite obviously on purpose) what they have is not autonomous driving or even a prototype of it; "unofficially" overselling the feature is the problem, not the name which is really the most honest part of it IMHO.

A German court ruled that Tesla cannot talk about 'full potential for autonomous driving' or 'Autopilot' in its ads in the country.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33338288/germany-tesla-autonomous-driving-court-ruling/

Still Tesla German owners manual 2023 talks about auto pilot:
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/de_de/GUID-101D1BF5-52D2-469A-A57D-E7230BBEE94B.html

Tesla appealed but was overruled 2022:
https://teslamag.de/news/exklusiv-web-werbung-tesla-autopilot-fsd-option-deutschland-zulaessig-51722

Tesla forced to buyback cars:
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/autopilot-makes-tesla-buy-back-another-ev-in-germany-it-s-the-third-one-until-now-195163.html

A pilot are not requested by Boeing/Airbus to "always hold their hands on the steering" when autopilot is on. It is well known a jet these days can take off, fly and land all by it self with no intervention of a hominid or monkey.

[wraper]

Stainless steel panel production.

[tom66]

Considering that becuase of America cars with cruise control had to come with a warning that you must remain in your seat, I remeber talked of a person putting cruise on and going to the back to make food and crashed as the assumed it would take care of that but I can't be sure that isnt just a dig at the American culture.

That's literally a skit in Anchorman 2...


One of the funniest moments in the film IMO.  The setup for the following carnage is perfect, even if the whole thing is entirely predictable.  But it's kinda low-brow comedy in general so... yeah, don't expect much more.

[wraper]

A pilot are not requested by Boeing/Airbus to "always hold their hands on the steering" when autopilot is on.

There are no rapidly appearing obstacles you need to rapidly steer around either. Must never be left unobserved as airplane autopilot may disengage or malfunction if sensors are not reading right.

It is well known a jet these days can take off, fly and land all by it self with no intervention of a hominid or monkey.

Again, must happen under human control and with parameters set first, involves a lot of human work. Won't happen by itself, you cannot just set destination airport and expect autopilot to take off and land.

[MT]

There are no rapidly appearing obstacles you need to rapidly steer around either. Must never be left unobserved as airplane autopilot may disengage or malfunction if sensors are not reading right.

Ever heard of pilots and autopilots steering straight into mountains, ground and other aircrafts?

Again, must happen under human control and with parameters set first, involves a lot of human work. Won't happen by itself, you cannot just set destination airport and expect autopilot to take off and land.

It can, military have done it for decades and numerous times been very close to mid air collisions with regular passanger jets etc.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2023/02/26/pilotless-autonomous-self-flying-planes/

[wraper]

There are no rapidly appearing obstacles you need to rapidly steer around either. Must never be left unobserved as airplane autopilot may disengage or malfunction if sensors are not reading right.

Ever heard of pilots and autopilots steering straight into mountains, ground and other aircrafts?

Ever heard about straw man? Those are not rapidly appearing obstacles, and you cannot steer around them in a split second. They happen due to planning mistakes and other poorly made decisions rather than being unable to rapidly steer around. Flying a passenger or cargo airplane is a slow methodical process. If a pilot sees the need to steer rapidly, very likely it's already way too late.