2004 Volkswagen Phaeton W12

[Homer J Simpson]

[Bicurico]

My colleague bought one based on Top Gear's review and due to the huge value loss they suffer.

The car is amazing, full of every equipment and luxury you can imagine. The engine is awesome. Driving in it, you feel like a minister.

But every month something new broke or failed... and every part is extra expensive due to all the sensors. Also, parts are hard to get and need to be back ordered.

Finally, no or only few mechanics at VW dealership are trained to do maintenance on this model.

As a result, this car will be sold ASAP.

Cheers,
Vitor

[Mr. Scram]

I think this was the Volkswagen Group's precursor to the Veyron. They wanted to build a car that showed they could engineer the pinnacle of road transport. Obviously, they soon realized that an understated car like this wasn't going to end up on any boy's bedroom wall, so they shifted gears and started the Bugatti project.

It's a brilliant strategy. You show the world you can build the world's most advanced cars, depending on your metrics of course, and it's a lot cheaper than something like participating in the formula 1. Much more effective than traditional advertising and cheaper too, despite losing a lot of money on every car.

[amyk]

Rip out the guts and swap in a smallblock V8

[Mr. Scram]

Rip out the guts and swap in a smallblock V8

Why on Earth would you swap a W12 for a smallblock V8? Even though the latter can be a lot of fun, that doesn't sound like an improvement.

[TassiloH]

I once read a report that said the Phaeton was relatively popular in China among officials who wanted a luxury car but didn't want to be seen in one 
That report also said that to change the timing chain tensioner and similar things, one has to remove the engine from the car due to space contraints...

[rrinker]

Rip out the guts and swap in a smallblock V8

Why on Earth would you swap a W12 for a smallblock V8? Even though the latter can be a lot of fun, that doesn't sound like an improvement.

 HUGE boost in reliability and HUGE reduction is costs of repair parts. Plus a million independent mechanics know how to fix small block V8s. And if a modern small block that's not tweaked for the utmost in power output, it probably will get far superior fuel mileage as well.

[Halcyon]

But every month something new broke or failed... and every part is extra expensive due to all the sensors.

So typical of VW these days.

[xrunner]

UGLY. 

[Mr. Scram]

HUGE boost in reliability and HUGE reduction is costs of repair parts. Plus a million independent mechanics know how to fix small block V8s. And if a modern small block that's not tweaked for the utmost in power output, it probably will get far superior fuel mileage as well.

I think the W12 is one of the parts without much issues. I'm also not sure a small block and the somewhat more sophisticated Phaeton are very compatible, even if just because the car expects all sorts of sensors to talk to it and those would be gone. I doubt the fuel milage would be much better or even better at all. These are fairly nifty engines.

The W12 is the main attraction of the car. Though a V8 can be a lot of fun, I'm not quite sure this is the car to put one in.

[tszaboo]

These are called "premium wrecks" in my country. All the BMWs and Mercedeses that were used for 10 years, 350.000 KM. Even if it was on the Autobahn, it is still just too much. And every day, there is something failing, that cost half of the worth of the car. This car (V6 version) is sold for 4000 EUR. But when you need new shock absorbers they cost 6000 EUR.
And leasing a new car ends up costing the same. Except you have a new car.

[nctnico]

I once read a report that said the Phaeton was relatively popular in China among officials who wanted a luxury car but didn't want to be seen in one 
That report also said that to change the timing chain tensioner and similar things, one has to remove the engine from the car due to space contraints...

Cars which are complicated cost a lot to maintain (which was my reasoning for not getting a Subaru WRX).

[Brutte]

Here is a list of VW's Self Study Programms (pdf-s) and those related to Phaeton (SSP 270 is a good starting point):

250 - VW Phaeton W12 - Engine Management
270 - VW Phaeton
271 - VW Phaeton - Air Conditioner and Heating
272 - VW Phaeton - Board Net - Part 01 / Part 02
273 - VW Phaeton - Comfort and Security Electronics - Part 01 / Part 02 / Part 03
274 - VW Phaeton - Infotainment System
275 - VW Phaeton - Air Suspension with Regulated Damping - Part 01 / Part 02 / Part 03
276 - VW Phaeton - Automatic Distance Rregulation (ADR)
277 - VW Phaeton - Chassis
280 - VW Phaeton - Auxiliary heater Thermo TOP C and supplementary heater Thermo TOP Z - Part 01 / Part 02