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Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!

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tom66:
It's worth trying something based on an e-CVT architecture.  Examples include Toyota/Lexus Hybrids and the original Volt.

These have the smoothness of an EV but have a conventional petrol engine too.  They are ridiculously smooth because the pairing of the motor-generator set acts like an electronically variable torque converter with nearly infinite ratio modulation, and very rapid control of this ratio.  A planetary gearset and clutch effectively connects the engine directly through a single ratio once over about 40 mph, so they are pretty efficient too for highway driving.

http://prius.ecrostech.com/original/Understanding/PowerSplitDevice.htm

I do really like the regen braking on my car though (Golf PHEV with a regular 6-speed DSG automatic),  it becomes a game to regen exactly enough to come to a stop at the red light or so on.  The brake pedal gets touched only when truly necessary.  I've been giving my partner driving lessons in it, and she's hooked and wants something electric as her first car.  Thinking an e-Up or e-Golf or maybe a newer Leaf/Zoe. 

nctnico:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 03, 2022, 04:25:21 pm ---
Fuel economy actually hasn't got much better since the 90's - 00's for average cars.   Obviously there are some stellar exceptions, e.g. the Prius et al., that really upped the game on that front significantly.

--- End quote ---
Yes and no. Cars with small, turbocharged engines and hybrids have a significantly lower fuel consumption compared to similar sized cars so progress has been made. It is just that the gas guzzling options are also still for sale. My next car is going to be a hybrid (for various reasons). Most likely a Toyota. For me fuel costs are by far the largest costs of a car so fuel economy is important.

james_s:

--- Quote from: tom66 on July 03, 2022, 06:24:45 pm ---It's worth trying something based on an e-CVT architecture.  Examples include Toyota/Lexus Hybrids and the original Volt.

These have the smoothness of an EV but have a conventional petrol engine too.  They are ridiculously smooth because the pairing of the motor-generator set acts like an electronically variable torque converter with nearly infinite ratio modulation, and very rapid control of this ratio.  A planetary gearset and clutch effectively connects the engine directly through a single ratio once over about 40 mph, so they are pretty efficient too for highway driving.

--- End quote ---

Hybrids were an interesting stopgap that made sense at the time, but they are quickly becoming obsolete except for a few edge cases where people really need more than 300 miles or so without a break for charging. If I were still commuting to an office I'd buy an EV, I've driven them enough and know enough people who drive them that I'm sold, quite simply they work, well, and carrying around a gasoline engine and all the mess that goes with that is totally needless for anyone that has a garage, driveway, or charging available at the office, a perk that is becoming more and more common. With the way fuel costs have been increasing it makes sense to dispense with fuel entirely. It cost me around $90 now for 300 miles on my gasoline car, and around $10 for 300 miles on a Tesla Y. It would be an absolute no brainer if I drove more than the 2,000 miles or so a year I do these days. Good friend of mine just bought a 2013 Tesla S, the original battery in that is going strong, so that pretty much alleviates the concerns I once had about longevity.

SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: james_s on July 04, 2022, 11:21:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on July 03, 2022, 06:24:45 pm ---It's worth trying something based on an e-CVT architecture.  Examples include Toyota/Lexus Hybrids and the original Volt.

These have the smoothness of an EV but have a conventional petrol engine too.  They are ridiculously smooth because the pairing of the motor-generator set acts like an electronically variable torque converter with nearly infinite ratio modulation, and very rapid control of this ratio.  A planetary gearset and clutch effectively connects the engine directly through a single ratio once over about 40 mph, so they are pretty efficient too for highway driving.

--- End quote ---

Hybrids were an interesting stopgap that made sense at the time, but they are quickly becoming obsolete except for a few edge cases where people really need more than 300 miles or so without a break for charging. If I were still commuting to an office I'd buy an EV, I've driven them enough and know enough people who drive them that I'm sold, quite simply they work, well, and carrying around a gasoline engine and all the mess that goes with that is totally needless for anyone that has a garage, driveway, or charging available at the office, a perk that is becoming more and more common. With the way fuel costs have been increasing it makes sense to dispense with fuel entirely. It cost me around $90 now for 300 miles on my gasoline car, and around $10 for 300 miles on a Tesla Y. It would be an absolute no brainer if I drove more than the 2,000 miles or so a year I do these days. Good friend of mine just bought a 2013 Tesla S, the original battery in that is going strong, so that pretty much alleviates the concerns I once had about longevity.

--- End quote ---


I think you just nailed the use case for gasoline:   Low miles driven.   

The overall costs are what matter.   E.g. I recently bought an older used "primitive" gasoline car for $5000...  it is in beautiful shape, no rust, low miles, comfortable, quiet.   Sure, it drinks copious quantities of gasoline costing $5 per gallon...   but on the other hand, there are no monthly car payments,  and very little depreciation. 

Electric cars just haven't been around long enough (in large enough quantities) to be able to do something similar with one of those...   but the day will come, of course.

CatalinaWOW:
Just to pound SilverSolder's point home, assuming his gas guzzler gets 10 mpg, and using james_s 2000 miles per year you would be paying $1000/year in fuel costs.  It would take 25 years to break even on a $30,000 EV, even assuming electricity is free.

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