Author Topic: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!  (Read 21788 times)

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Offline apis

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #100 on: May 07, 2019, 12:27:37 am »
AFAICS "disengagement" does not include when the vehicle just comes to a safe stop because it has no clue what to do next.
I believe it's anything that interrupts the planned driving task. It's not a very good metric, but it's the best that's publicly available.
 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #101 on: May 30, 2019, 09:16:28 am »
CR finds that the new automatic lane-changing feature is far less competent than a human driver

“It’s incredibly nearsighted. It doesn’t appear to react to brake lights or turn signals, it can’t anticipate what other drivers will do, and as a result, you constantly have to be one step ahead of it.”

“This isn’t a convenience at all,” says CR’s Fisher. “Monitoring the system is much harder than just changing lanes yourself. Using the system is like monitoring a kid behind the wheel for the very first time. As any parent knows, it’s far more convenient and less stressful to simply drive yourself.”


https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/tesla-navigate-on-autopilot-automatic-lane-change-requires-significant-driver-intervention/

 

Offline soldar

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #102 on: May 30, 2019, 10:55:52 am »
I've read an interesting article in one of the bigger newspapers of the NL. China is becoming a real power where it comes to automotive engineering for both electric and self driving cars. They have the biggest uniform market for cars in the world.

I posted this in another thread:
Quote
Three years ago the market for passenger vehicles was (in millions):

- USA: 7.5
- EU: 14.5
- China: 21.5

My guess is that their share has grown since then.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #103 on: July 13, 2019, 04:55:15 am »
Elon Musk shakes up Tesla Autopilot team after growing frustrated with the group’s progress
https://bgr.com/2019/07/09/tesla-autopilot-team-elon-musk-shakes-up/

Musk's decision not to implement LIDAR in Teslas may be backfiring.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 05:07:10 am by windsmurf »
 

Offline Towger

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Offline windsmurf

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #105 on: July 27, 2019, 12:44:08 am »
The Tesla Model 3 with Autopilot driving, with driver that fell asleep:

 


Offline Gyro

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #107 on: April 23, 2021, 07:53:34 am »
It looks as if the latest autopilot isn't too fussy about whether the driver is present or not!

Quote
Tesla's Autopilot 'tricked' to operate without driver

The Autopilot feature in Tesla vehicles can be tricked into operating without a driver, an influential consumer magazine in the US has found.

Consumer Reports engineers looked into claims that Autopilot can operate without a driver present.

They tested the Model Y on a closed track and concluded the system could be "easily tricked".

It comes days after a fatal Tesla crash in Texas. Police believe no one was in the driver's seat.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56854417


If you don't sufficiently defend against something, you can be sure that some moron is going to do it.  :palm:
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #108 on: April 23, 2021, 11:52:13 am »
If you don't sufficiently defend against something, you can be sure that some moron is going to do it.  :palm:
If you are dumb enough, you can easily make any car drive without anyone being present on driver seat, no autopilot needed. Which seems to be this particular case.
 

Online Marco

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #109 on: April 23, 2021, 01:26:00 pm »
Even the biggest nitwit knows a normal car can't drive itself, I can forgive people for people assuming a car with Full Self Driving beta pretty much can.

That's why level 3 is a mistake. Level 3 autonomous systems should only be allowed with professional safety drivers supervised by systems so incredibly annoying (ie. no eyes on the road -> immediate safety buzzer) only a paycheck would convince you to abide by them. No automatic lanekeeping either outside of emergencies, if you drift slowly out of a lane and it intervenes you should know it and not like it ... all automation which allows you to take eyes off the road and stop active steering should be so annoying you don't want to have it kick in, until the car can actually drive itself. Level 4 or bust.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 01:32:41 pm by Marco »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #110 on: April 23, 2021, 01:39:47 pm »
Even the biggest nitwit knows a normal car can't drive itself, I can forgive people for people assuming a car with Full Self Driving beta pretty much can.

That's why level 3 is a mistake. Level 3 autonomous systems should only be allowed with professional safety drivers supervised by systems so incredibly annoying (ie. no eyes on the road -> immediate safety buzzer) only a paycheck would convince you to abide by them. No automatic lanekeeping either outside of emergencies, if you drift slowly out of a lane and it intervenes you should know it and not like it ... all automation which allows you to take eyes off the road and stop active steering should be so annoying you don't want to have it kick in, until the car can actually drive itself. Level 4 or bust.
FSD beta is only available to a small number of individuals. Those who abuse it, get banned from using it.
 

Online Marco

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #111 on: April 23, 2021, 02:03:07 pm »
Using it is abusing it, it's legal but it shouldn't be. The level of annoyance necessary to make this systems safe to test simply isn't there. The level of annoyance necessary to make their old level 3 automation safe to use isn't there either.

They are creating new significant failure modes (ie. more collisions with static objects, due to the inability of radar to detect them and visual identification creating too many false positives to be usable). That's unacceptable to me, they should be making existing failure modes less likely, not creating new ones.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 02:15:05 pm by Marco »
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #112 on: April 23, 2021, 03:17:34 pm »
If you don't sufficiently defend against something, you can be sure that some moron is going to do it.  :palm:
If you are dumb enough, you can easily make any car drive without anyone being present on driver seat, no autopilot needed. Which seems to be this particular case.

Unfortunately, stupidity seems to be a nearly infinite natural resource!  :D
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #113 on: April 23, 2021, 06:05:12 pm »
Any automated system that requires a human operator to be available to take over immediately in the event that the automation cannot handle a situation is fatally flawed by design. It is a well known fact of human psychology that if you take away the requirement for the brain to focus on something, it will find something else to focus on instead and will not be ready to take over. If you have to maintain a level of focus that would enable taking over then the system is completely useless.

If I'm driving a car, I just want to DRIVE the car. The less gadgets and gimmicks between me and the road the better.
 
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Offline Gyro

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #114 on: April 23, 2021, 08:36:08 pm »
No, I can't think of anything more boring or annoying than having to pay close attention to the road without physically having anything to do. Especially when I might be called to action at any moment.

Things like a nice warning that I'm drifting out of lane are good, it prompts me that my attention is wandering.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #115 on: April 23, 2021, 09:09:10 pm »
No, I can't think of anything more boring or annoying than having to pay close attention to the road without physically having anything to do. Especially when I might be called to action at any moment.

Things like a nice warning that I'm drifting out of lane are good, it prompts me that my attention is wandering.

That is actually a good safety feature, I have seen several terrible accidents in my lifetime that were due to people falling asleep behind the wheel...  The worst one, a whole family was wiped out...  :(
 

Online Marco

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #116 on: April 23, 2021, 09:28:21 pm »
It's fine, as long as it's utterly annoying. People have to desperately want to avoid it kicking in. Safety through annoyance, until level 4 (never ever) it's the only way.

Tesla's design of it's automation is designed to sell cars while taking massive risks. If there's a cop or emergency responder between the Tesla and the next police car or firetruck they rearend they're going to be the new Uber, it's a real existential risk to Tesla which they are taking for competitive advantage. Risky business.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 09:49:53 pm by Marco »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #117 on: April 23, 2021, 09:33:59 pm »
In which case it's completely useless, because it just ends up being more annoying than actually driving manually.
 

Online Marco

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #118 on: April 23, 2021, 09:53:15 pm »
In which case it's completely useless, because it just ends up being more annoying than actually driving manually.

You don't tend to manually drift into an occupied lane.

It can nudge you back annoyingly when it detects a danger without taking over normal steering and lulling you into sleep so you can hit a firetruck.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #119 on: April 24, 2021, 12:00:52 am »
You don't need self driving for lane departure warning. Personally I don't want either one, I want a simple car with a proper manual gearbox so I focus 100% on *driving* the car when I'm behind the wheel. All these gadgets and tech cars have now is just crutches that enable people to focus on anything but driving.
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #120 on: April 24, 2021, 12:55:40 am »
Personally I don't want either one, I want a simple car with a proper manual gearbox so I focus 100% on *driving* the car when I'm behind the wheel.
That's certainly a pure pleasure when you are slowly moving in congestion.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #121 on: April 24, 2021, 01:18:16 am »
No, I can't think of anything more boring or annoying than having to pay close attention to the road without physically having anything to do. Especially when I might be called to action at any moment.

Things like a nice warning that I'm drifting out of lane are good, it prompts me that my attention is wandering.

It's a bit like having to sit in the passenger seat with an elderly parent driving. Some of you would know what I'm talking about. Often you just want to drive the car yourself. But what if the driver claims competency and pulls rank anyway?

I think this is the way the car companies will lead with their automation. They do already, by proxy, bully the owner into believing the the car knows better. Will come a day when the car will deny you intention to drive. And you won't be able to tell it to fuck off and sit in the other seat.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2021, 01:20:19 am by Ed.Kloonk »
iratus parum formica
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #122 on: April 24, 2021, 02:22:42 am »
Personally I don't want either one, I want a simple car with a proper manual gearbox so I focus 100% on *driving* the car when I'm behind the wheel.
That's certainly a pure pleasure when you are slowly moving in congestion.

OK, we need a few ingredients:  a nice place to go, a proper stick shift, a babe sitting next to you, convertible roof, 1KW stereo...   25 years off your age wouldn't hurt either...  :D
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #123 on: April 25, 2021, 03:44:38 am »
Personally I don't want either one, I want a simple car with a proper manual gearbox so I focus 100% on *driving* the car when I'm behind the wheel.
That's certainly a pure pleasure when you are slowly moving in congestion.

Slowing moving in congestion is a drag no matter what. I've been driving a manual for over 20 years, every now and then I have to drive something with a slushbox, it makes no difference in heavy traffic but any other situation the manual is hugely superior.
 
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Online BrianHG

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Re: Tesla Full Self Driving (FSD) info - interesting stuff!
« Reply #124 on: April 25, 2021, 04:05:03 am »
Elon Musk shakes up Tesla Autopilot team after growing frustrated with the group’s progress
https://bgr.com/2019/07/09/tesla-autopilot-team-elon-musk-shakes-up/

Musk's decision not to implement LIDAR in Teslas may be backfiring.
Tesla's by my count has less than 1/100th the required processing power to run full self driving as reliably as a human using just cameras.

Also, their method/scope of training also way too narrow focused just so they can get something barely functional with such small narrow minded neuro-net processor.

Full self driving will soon one day come, but, I think with Elon's narrow scope of the true development and processing requirements, he will end up falling to a newer generation/company who will bring the real thing to fruition unless he changes his business practices and truly pays/invests special attention to the authentic scope of the problem at hand.  Anything he claims his current Tesla's will be able to perform true self driving is just an investor sales pitch which will never be truly delivered without user's lives being placed at risk.
 


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