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| Tesla model Y 4680 battery pack not very serviceable! |
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| bdunham7:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on August 19, 2022, 10:33:09 am ---The proof is in the fact basically no one repairs anything. You can blame the manufacturers until cows come home, but you are wrong. Whatever they do to make repairs easy, still 99% do not repair. It is wasted effort. Instead, the same effort needs to be directed to make things high quality and reliable. I'm not even against regulating it; say mandate companies to give 5-year guarantees or whatever is needed to get the quality up. Sanction poor quality shit. Whatever. Yet some people seem to think the key is in repairability and requiring companies to make product repairable. It's not, even if they managed to mandate this, still <1% gets repaired, because it is expensive, inefficient, and inconvenient. It is much much easier to just design products that rarely fail to begin with. --- End quote --- It really depends on what product you are talking about. A power brick? Yeah, I fix mine but I'd accept your assertion that I'm in the 0.1%. But a 5-year warranty won't improve the product as they'll just hand you another cheap turd. But (here in the US--YMMV) repairs on things over a few hundred dollars like phones and TVs are still commonly done. The typical repair person doesn't have 'designer-level' knowledge, they are more opportunistic, applying known fixes where they can and giving up easily if it gets too difficult. Things like computers and expensive appliances are routinely repaired during their lifetime and that is actually a fairly big business. Cars are another level up, the common expectation is that almost any fault should be economically repairable over a 15-20 year span. Consumers will have little tolerance for replacing a $20K battery that has suffered a failure well within its expected lifetime but is unrepairable due to its design. |
| coppercone2:
Honestly what the hell, it looks like a cheap early version low price consumer transistorized radio. |
| thm_w:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on August 19, 2022, 04:10:26 pm ---It really depends on what product you are talking about. A power brick? Yeah, I fix mine but I'd accept your assertion that I'm in the 0.1%. But a 5-year warranty won't improve the product as they'll just hand you another cheap turd. But (here in the US--YMMV) repairs on things over a few hundred dollars like phones and TVs are still commonly done. The typical repair person doesn't have 'designer-level' knowledge, they are more opportunistic, applying known fixes where they can and giving up easily if it gets too difficult. Things like computers and expensive appliances are routinely repaired during their lifetime and that is actually a fairly big business. Cars are another level up, the common expectation is that almost any fault should be economically repairable over a 15-20 year span. Consumers will have little tolerance for replacing a $20K battery that has suffered a failure well within its expected lifetime but is unrepairable due to its design. --- End quote --- Disagree, they'll go out of business if their failure rate is too high. It could only work if they have a huge margin, or they are a fly by night company. Warranty is a big incentive to get things right. Reasonable mandated warranties (say for large appliances, cars, etc.) is a good thing IMO. https://academic.oup.com/jcr/article-abstract/12/2/245/1918480?login=false |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 19, 2022, 11:48:10 am ---I disagree here. I assume you have read news stories about BEV batteries costing more than the car is worth to replace. First of all this is bad for publicity for the brand and BEVs in general, secondly it makes buying a BEV a gamble. 99.9% means that 1 in 1000 batteries will fail which is quite a lot. Nobody will complain about a repair of $800 but people will complain about needing a $8000 repair. --- End quote --- Sure, and I've also heard stories about engines costing more than a car is worth to replace, and they do fail occasionally too. Buying any car is a gamble, but at least in the USA I think all BEVs have to have at least a 8 year warranty on the battery, I keep my cars longer than that but most people don't. I'm not too worried, there will be more and more 3rd parties springing up offering rebuilt batter packs just as has happened for hybrids. People will figure out techniques to repair them. |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: Miyuki on August 19, 2022, 11:38:23 am ---Modern cars (at least European brands) tend to have outstanding corrosion protection. This year I put to scrap my Renault manufactured in 2001 and it just started to get some cosmetic rust, not structural issues yet. So I can imagine in a climate without salt it would last almost forever structurally. It was scrapped because in the last service they forget to put some kind of Loctite on bolts holding in the engine. So it just fell off during a ride due to vibration. ::) --- End quote --- When I visited Chicago I was struck by the fact that you don't see ANY cars older than about 15-20 years and even many that are only around 15 years old are badly rusted. Out here rust-free cars that are 20+ years old are very common. Salt is nasty, horrible stuff and I wish they would outlaw using it on roads. |
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