General > General Technical Chat
Tesla model Y 4680 battery pack not very serviceable!
Psi:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on August 19, 2022, 10:33:09 am ---
--- Quote from: Psi on August 19, 2022, 01:53:45 am ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on August 17, 2022, 06:04:14 pm ---But do note, products should be made reliable, to have long life, and without planned obsolescence. This is totally orthogonal to being repairable, and making a product less repairable tends to open doors for making the product otherwise better - including more reliable.
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I don't agree, making something repairable doesn't make it unreliable or give it less lifespan. Can you give an example of where you think that is true?
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Example: modular design to allow repairs by replacing modules: now there are connectors which not only increase cost, but also can fail. Also each module is now more complex, may need their own power supplies etc. Given products have some price target, savings on the connectors alone would enable buying better quality electrolytic capacitors, and size savings due to better integration would improve cooling.
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Making something repairable doesn't mean it has to be modularized so anyone on minimum wage and no skill can do it by replacing modules.
I think it maybe a terminality interpretation issue.
The right to repair isn't really about forcing manufactures to make drastic or costly changes to their products just to make them repairable. It's more about manufacturers acknowledging that repair is something that exists and being mindful not to make things unduly hard to repair when they don't need to be.
Everything is and always will be 'repairable' it's just a matter of time, skills needed and cost.
The issue I have is when products are intentionally made uneconomical to repair for no reason other than to make them uneconomical to repair. Or maybe where they have been made uneconomical to repair for a stupid reason that would have been trivial to not do when the device was designed/manufactured.
It's understandable that choices need to be made when designing a product and some of those choices will make the product less repairable. But those choices should have a valid reason.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 20, 2022, 09:25:17 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 19, 2022, 10:00:00 pm ---Typically such engine failures are covered by extended warranties as well. In many cases the manufacturer will compensate the owner for such a premature failure.
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Are they? My hybrid had a regular 3 year bumper-to-bumper warranty, but the battery has 8 year warranty.
I think I tried to claim on an engine failure much past that 3 year point I'd be out of luck. I could try using consumer rights processes, but that's a long and arduous process.
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I have been on car-fixing fora for decades and have read stories about people that got partly or full compensation for engines failures outside warranty. Car manufacturers know there is a small percentage of failures due to production errors and they don't want that to tarnisch their brand reputation. Also, it is cheaper to provide a longer warranty out of leniency rather than improving the yield of the production process.
--- Quote from: Psi on August 20, 2022, 09:45:16 am ---It's understandable that choices need to be made when designing a product and some of those choices will make the product less repairable. But those choices should have a valid reason.
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Regulation can also help with that. For example: since 2009 the EU has a law that headlights from cars must be easy to replace. This law came into existence because for some cars it was no longer possible to change the headlight along the road; you'd need to take half the front of the car apart on some models. In 2024 it will be required by EU law that batteries in portable devices and small vehicles (e-bikes, mopeds, etc) are easy to replace.
MT:
Part3
thm_w:
TLDR:
- Large bus bars directly welded to the battery cells
- Less fasteners (16)
So maybe they think the cells are reliable enough now? This site says no internal fusing at all: https://www.batterydesign.net/tesla-4680-cell/ (100Wh/cell, 276Wh/kg.)
There were 4 BMS boards but wasn't clear what sort of switching was on them.
Black Phoenix:
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 20, 2022, 10:03:30 am ---
Regulation can also help with that. For example: since 2009 the EU has a law that headlights from cars must be easy to replace. This law came into existence because for some cars it was no longer possible to change the headlight along the road; you'd need to take half the front of the car apart on some models. In 2024 it will be required by EU law that batteries in portable devices and small vehicles (e-bikes, mopeds, etc) are easy to replace.
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True. Previous owner of a Renault Clio III, Phase 1 (launch year 2007). The only lights able to be changed are the turn indicators and the low beans on the left side. And both fog lights.
All the others you have to spend 45 min removing the front bumper (plus the wheel arcs front half to get to the last 2 screws inside) to be able to get to the last screw who holds the headlight assembly (two on the top and one in the middle down). At total is 18 self tapping screws and 8 plastic clamps (that break easily when removed so have spares to replace).
In the 10 years I used the car (my mom now is the one with it since I'm in Shenzhen, China and the car is in Portugal) I changed twice all the lamps since it was easier to change all when one failed because of the work involved.
The Phase 2 model (design refresh that some brands do - launch date 2009) came with a different front bumper and headlights and didn't had such problem, although the headlight assembly still needed to be removed from the car for the high beams.
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